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Gungankllr	Posted - 2006.03.27 22:18:00 - [1] Greetings- I'm currently running a P4 1.7 processor, 768mb ram and an NVidia 5700LE 256mb video card. I know my processor is getting a bit slow by today's standards, so I'm looking into upgrading it a little. Only problem is, the motherboard is PC133, and that's the biggest processor it can manage. That being said, i'm looking to upgrade the motherboard and processor at the same time. I've found a few on Pricewatch.com, but other than knowing to get a Pentium 4 with an 800mhz bus, I know really nothing else about computers. Would an Asus P5s800-VM Motherboard with a P4 3.0ghz (800) processor be a good deal for $200?? Also, I've got a 1 gig stick of ddr already. Any help would be appreciated, and I'm not rich. (Trying to keep it under $200) Thanks
Kheldar DoMarrUlTier	Posted - 2006.03.27 22:32:00 - [2] Hey Gung, You might try AMD instead, better IMHO. AMD 64 wont set you back too much and sets you up for future upgrading on the OS to 64 bit. Also theres some nice mobos available. try ASROCK Dual series MB 90-MXS3L0. has AGP and PCI-E for GFX card so you can upgrade later if you want and SATA (which is nice), its what Ive got and it works nicely.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.03.27 22:33:00 - [3] An A64 is a much better deal currently. A low end A64 and a good A64 board can probably fit under 200 dollars and easily outperform the P4. [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Gungankllr	Posted - 2006.03.27 22:48:00 - [4] Edited by: Gungankllr on 27/03/2006 22:51:13 Does the number in the title of the Motherboard indicate processor speed? AMD Athalon 64 3200 = 3.2 ghz?
JamesTalon	Posted - 2006.03.27 22:53:00 - [5] As I'm now a converted AMD user, I have to say I am pleased with them. Good prices, and powerful procs. What better combination could you want? On that note, I was planning on buying a new proc for $1100 or so. AMD FX55. Not interested in dual core right now, since theres not much use for it in the gaming world yet. http://caldarisurplus.2myip.net
JamesTalon	Posted - 2006.03.27 22:54:00 - [6] Originally by: Gungankllr Edited by: Gungankllr on 27/03/2006 22:51:13 Does the number in the title of the Motherboard indicate processor speed? AMD Athalon 64 3200 = 3.2 ghz? Nope, its around 2.2Ghz (I have the AMD 3200+ Athlon64) but you need to remember its 64bit as well, so its Uber still http://caldarisurplus.2myip.net
ShadowLol	Posted - 2006.03.27 22:57:00 - [7] AMD Speeds != Intel Speeds AMD CPU at 2.2 can easily outperfom a 3.0. I blew up 14 of mine kestrels in 4 days
Gungankllr	Posted - 2006.03.27 22:59:00 - [8] Edited by: Gungankllr on 27/03/2006 22:59:42 What's the big difference between a Pentium 4, AMD and Celeron? Are celeron processors trash? Edit: I just realized that Celeron and P4 are both made by Intel
Kheldar DoMarrUlTier	Posted - 2006.03.27 23:08:00 - [9] Your thinking Sempron and yes they arent too hot but they are cheap. Not worth it long term though.
Yojiritsu	Posted - 2006.03.27 23:09:00 - [10] Celeron is P IV with crippled cache memory amounts to make it dirt cheap. Pentium IV needs a good sized on chip cache or its performance is toast ( which is the case with celerons ). Celeron = BAD for gaming.
Isuridae	Posted - 2006.03.28 00:02:00 - [11] gung, I'd agree with what others said. You want to go AMD to keep the price low and they perform better at gaming IMO anyway. I like the ASUS boards find a good price on a 3200+ socket 939 preferebly as anything else will be more difficult to upgrade later. Make sure the motherboard you pick out is also a 939 socket. If you can swing the money get a board that does pci-E and upgrade your video card too. TheXFX Geforce 6600 128 mb is a great value at around $117 and offers excellent performance although that will probably put you expense at around $300 and some change Linkage
Gungankllr	Posted - 2006.03.28 00:51:00 - [12] Cheaper = Better Which AMD-compatible motherboard / processor is comparable with a 3.0 / 3.2ghz P4 processor? http://www.pricewatch.com/m-306.htm
Kel Shek	Posted - 2006.03.28 01:04:00 - [13] definitely go to AMD! Celerons are just trash, to put it simply. the most crude and badly stated way of explaining it... is that the numbers like "Athlon64 3200+" means that it is roughly equivalent power to a 3.2ghz P4, but in reality its better... they can just only garantee that speed. I have a 3700+, with 2gb ram, and a nVidia GF7800GT, and I can have 3 clients logged in (on one screen... seems to screw it up if I actually utilize the clients across the dual view) without disabling framerate loss. 2 is perfectly smooth even in level 4 mission type combat situations. ~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake
Nelson Vandermark	Posted - 2006.03.28 01:55:00 - [14] Preferably if you looking for a specifications I can recommended the following components AMD AthlonÖ 64 4800+ Processor Dual Core ASUS A8N-E Socket 939 nForce 4 Motherboard 4x OCZ 512MB PC4800 600Mhz Dual Channel Platinum Series 7800GTX PCI-E 1 X 80GB IDE 7200 RPM (System Install) 4 x 250 GB SATA (STRIPE\ Game Installs) One thing which you will notice this is not a cheap setup but it is pretty much future proof and will be good for the next 12 months; but the hardware upgrade path for future upgrades was worth it 3 months ago, with AMDÆs new processor line coming out in a few months time; prices of current CPU and motherboards will be dropping considerable And comparing AMD to Intel is like say that an apple is an orange; they do completely different things; when buying hardware its good thing to do research into it; just to understand what you will be buying and see if this the technology will last you into the future, eve is a very CPU intensive game, so the bottle neck will be your processor and memory. AMD AthlonÖ 64 3200+ Processor Retail 1024M PC3200 DDR RAM Kingston/Kingmax ASUS A8N-E Socket 939 nForce 4 Motherboard Albatron 128MDDR PC6600GT PCI Express Video Or Albatron 256MDDR PC6600 PCI Express That system is under $500 AUD; consider that I have a lot of spare parts; i.e case/ dvd rom / mouse keyboard / lcd screen and power supply unit. That above is pretty good setup, one of my low end machines runs that and pretty much bf2 and eve run really well; not as good as my monster machine above, but you will have to factor in the power supply unit, if only it was just that easy to replace the main board and CPU; hardware upgrades are pain.
Sevarus James	Posted - 2006.03.28 02:15:00 - [15] Originally by: Gungankllr Greetings- I'm currently running a P4 1.7 processor, 768mb ram and an NVidia 5700LE 256mb video card. I know my processor is getting a bit slow by today's standards, so I'm looking into upgrading it a little. Only problem is, the motherboard is PC133, and that's the biggest processor it can manage. That being said, i'm looking to upgrade the motherboard and processor at the same time. I've found a few on Pricewatch.com, but other than knowing to get a Pentium 4 with an 800mhz bus, I know really nothing else about computers. Would an Asus P5s800-VM Motherboard with a P4 3.0ghz (800) processor be a good deal for $200?? Also, I've got a 1 gig stick of ddr already. Any help would be appreciated, and I'm not rich. (Trying to keep it under $200) Thanks Gungan, just a little fyi. For every user there is gonna be a recommendation as to what they like. There's nothin' wrong with that, but if you REALLY want good advice, I suggest that you research a bit, and so, as a engineer with 20 years in the biz, here's MY adice to you: 1. NEVER go to the 'store' to buy gear like this. ALWAYS order online. You will on average save between 10-50% off what a 'best-buy'/compusa' will rip you......er sell to you. 2. There are a TON of good review sites that will give you a very good idea of equipment and price, plus comparisons. Here are a couple of place to start. Also note that the 'tgstores' link off of Tom's site will allow you to comparison shop for gear and give you a ton of online retailers as well as 'best' prices as well as customer reviews of the online retailers AND the products. This will also let you shop for older (read: cheaper) gear as well. FiringSquad Tom's Hardware All that said, my personal opinion is to stay with AMD for a gaming rig. They run cooler, cheaper and faster for most games. There is nothing wrong with Intel components, but my personal take is AMD rules the roost for gaming at this point. ----- ------------ New sig coming soon "Ubuntu 5.10 cedega 5.1.1 and EVE= happy camper"
D'onryu Shoqui	Posted - 2006.03.28 02:34:00 - [16] Edited by: D''onryu Shoqui on 28/03/2006 02:42:18 Edited by: D''onryu Shoqui on 28/03/2006 02:40:51 Originally by: Gungankllr Edited by: Gungankllr on 27/03/2006 22:51:13 Does the number in the title of the Motherboard indicate processor speed? AMD Athalon 64 3200 = 3.2 ghz? 3200 is the performance rating which helps you to compare amd cpu's vs intel cpu's. amd cpu's are more efficient so dont need such high clock speeds like intel do. heres a link to a hl2 cpu performance amd vs intel article so you can see the numbers for your self, pretty old article but seeing as you are on a tight budget a more upto date article wouldnt be much use to you as it would only show cpus that you cant afford http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2330&p=2
Avida Dollars	Posted - 2006.03.28 03:41:00 - [17] Originally by: Nelson Vandermark AMD AthlonÖ 64 4800+ Processor Dual Core ASUS A8N-E Socket 939 nForce 4 Motherboard 4x OCZ 512MB PC4800 600Mhz Dual Channel Platinum Series 7800GTX PCI-E 1 X 80GB IDE 7200 RPM (System Install) 4 x 250 GB SATA (STRIPE\ Game Installs) Holy crap dude, how much did that rig cost? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ "I DONT DO DRUGS - I AM DRUGS!"
JamesTalon	Posted - 2006.03.28 03:52:00 - [18] You know, I haven't noticed a single person say they used ATI video cards. I love ATI, and will probably always support their Canadian butts until they are no more, or I am no more.... Yea, anyhow...AMD ftw
ThunderGodThor	Posted - 2006.03.28 06:34:00 - [19] Originally by: Nelson Vandermark Preferably if you looking for a specifications I can recommended the following components AMD AthlonÖ 64 4800+ Processor Dual Core ASUS A8N-E Socket 939 nForce 4 Motherboard 4x OCZ 512MB PC4800 600Mhz Dual Channel Platinum Series 7800GTX PCI-E 1 X 80GB IDE 7200 RPM (System Install) 4 x 250 GB SATA (STRIPE\ Game Installs) One thing which you will notice this is not a cheap setup but it is pretty much future proof and will be good for the next 12 months; but the hardware upgrade path for future upgrades was worth it 3 months ago, with AMDÆs new processor line coming out in a few months time; prices of current CPU and motherboards will be dropping considerable And comparing AMD to Intel is like say that an apple is an orange; they do completely different things; when buying hardware its good thing to do research into it; just to understand what you will be buying and see if this the technology will last you into the future, eve is a very CPU intensive game, so the bottle neck will be your processor and memory. AMD AthlonÖ 64 3200+ Processor Retail 1024M PC3200 DDR RAM Kingston/Kingmax ASUS A8N-E Socket 939 nForce 4 Motherboard Albatron 128MDDR PC6600GT PCI Express Video Or Albatron 256MDDR PC6600 PCI Express That system is under $500 AUD; consider that I have a lot of spare parts; i.e case/ dvd rom / mouse keyboard / lcd screen and power supply unit. That above is pretty good setup, one of my low end machines runs that and pretty much bf2 and eve run really well; not as good as my monster machine above, but you will have to factor in the power supply unit, if only it was just that easy to replace the main board and CPU; hardware upgrades are pain. Ok a few revisions on what nelson has. First get an opty 165 or 170. If you do any over clocking they will overclock as high or higher then what the 4800 can do, its not uncommon to see 165's up the FX-60 speeds. Second get 2 1 gb sticks. If you go with 4 you end up with T2 which slows you down a lot over the T1.Last 7900 GT does just as well and a lot of the time better then the 7800gtx. Now if you can wait 6 months or so both the new AM2 will be out and as will Intels new chips which are much faster then the current Amd's by a fare margen. 25/50 % faster. My personal specs are opty 165 DFI lanparty expert 2 x 1 Gb OZC ddr 500 PC 4000 1 250 SATA soon to get a 74 gb Raptor. 7900 GT
Steven Dynahir	Posted - 2006.03.28 07:07:00 - [20] Quote: 7800GTX PCI-E 1 X 80GB IDE 7200 RPM (System Install) 4 x 250 GB SATA (STRIPE\ Game Installs) Few hints for new buyers: - Wait for 7900GTX, it will be cheaper than current 7800GTX. With 5-15% increase in performance. - Buy raptor --- Sell orders
Emmerich Steiner	Posted - 2006.03.28 07:08:00 - [21] The quantispeed rating on AMD processors is becomming less and less a good metric for speed comparisons towards intel chips. It's is good for comparing between AMD processors of the same series. But that is about it. i.e. 3200+ Athlon XP isn't that same as 3200+ Athlon 64, but a Athlon 64 3400+ is approx. 6% faster than a 3200+ of the same flavor. The only real way to compare them is with real world benchmarks (which you can find at anandtech and tomshardware). Pentiums tend to be better for busniess and multimedia creations applications, wheras Athlons tend to shine within games and multimedia playback. But for price to performance, athlon's are king, which makes them an excellent choice for home users, and especially for pc gamers. Next you want to look at what kind of motherboard. If you are going with a 939pin Athlon 64 processor you'll want and nForce 4 based board. Asus, Abit, MSI and DFI have several versions of boards based off of this chipset... Most of the others are kind of cheap, and I can't really recommend them. I have personally have had quite a bit of issues with Asus boards, mainly a concavity on the northbridge which caused overheating, and bad battery control circuitry that caused the system clock to run about 5 minutes fast per hour that the machine was shutdown. But alot of people sware by them, so I'm probably just unlucky. I personally like DFI motherboards, they are feature rich and made from high quality components. But they are kind of pricey. On the low end Biostar makes a reliable board, but they are nothing fancy. The issue here is, there are no Nforce4 motherboards that support your current AGP card, as far as I know. If you don't want to buy a new graphics card, I would look into either finding an old 754-pin Athlon 64, or get one of the Sempron 64's and a Nforce 3 motherboard from one of the above mentioned manufacturers. You'll easily fit your $200 budget with a sempron64 and nforce3 combo. And before someone spouts, semprons suck.. I have a sempron 64 (my soft-PVR machine) and it works fine, it's not fantastic.. But it's alot better then what Gungankllr has now. Though I don't know how they perform in eve, as I haven't played it on that machine.
Gungankllr	Posted - 2006.03.28 08:34:00 - [22] So from what everyone is saying- Go with AMD, perferrably a 939 pin motherboard. The last poster made a comment about my current video card not being compatible with a newer motherboard, is that correct? I thought they were universally compatible with a PCI slot? I do plan on upgrading the video card in the future, but not anytime soon. Anybody have any advice?
Arthmandar Valikari	Posted - 2006.03.28 15:51:00 - [23] Edited by: Arthmandar Valikari on 28/03/2006 15:52:11 From my experience, if you're planning to build a box meant to be upgraded, get the highest quality motherboard you can find (to me, that means Asus, but YMMV), and then the oldest but quality parts that fit in it -- you get rock solid stability from the outset. Based on that, if I were building a new box today, it would be a top of the line Asus socket 939 motherboard (get one with 4 dimm slots, my current MB is gimped with just 3), a 3200+ or 3400+ athlon 64, and a midrange PCI-X graphics card (the GF 6600/256 is probably just fine). You'll get decent performance, and at a price that you could buy 4 of them for the cost of some of the other systems posted. :) For short term upgrading, strongly consider going 2 GB (4 x 512 probably the easiest way here). I recently went to 2GB, and even my relatively old 3200+ athlon XP with a 6600 AGP card can manage two clients pretty well. And oh yeah, AGP is on its way out the door (and plain old PCI is long gone for gaming). You'll probably need to get a new graphics card (PCI-eXpress, not compatible with PCI or AGP) for any new motherboard.
Emmerich Steiner	Posted - 2006.03.28 18:05:00 - [24] If your current graphics cards is PCI and not AGP as I assumed... Then it will work with an Nforce4 based system. Which will do you good for the time being, but eventually you will want to move up to a pci-e graphics card. Getting a Athlon64 3000-3200 Venice Revision E and a DFI nF4 Ultra-Infinty Motherboard should set you back a little over $200. If You want to sepdna nother $30, you can get a DFI Lanparty nF4 Ultra-D.. Which is a much higher quality motherboard. Both motherbaord should work with a PCI graphics card.
Sensor Error	Posted - 2006.03.28 18:14:00 - [25] Originally by: Nelson Vandermark Preferably if you looking for a specifications I can recommended the following components AMD AthlonÖ 64 4800+ Processor Dual Core ASUS A8N-E Socket 939 nForce 4 Motherboard SNIP He asked for some advice, not for you to advertise your system specs. First off, we need to know your budget. Although yes, replacing your motherboard and CPU is an option, it is likely that your old RAM is either incompatible or going to seriously limit your performance. As for the whole AMD vs Intel argument, in a broad stroke it breaks down like this. AMD is better for games and general purpose stuff. Intel is better for high number crunching stuff, like video editing, advanced photo manipulation etc etc. RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!! ------------------------------------------ Now run along and play with your dolls...
Rellik B00n	Posted - 2006.03.28 18:27:00 - [26] you want an AMD 64 and a motherboard that fits it. Ive got a P4 at the minute but to be honest as a pentium user the P4s only claim to fame used to be that it crunched large patches of data (encoding etc) faster than AMD. This is no longer the case and Mac affiliations or not for the immediate future AMD are the daddies. Get the 64. If you want to future proof it a little it must have PCI-E and DDR2 capabilities. Everything else is down to your budget and taste. I would highly recommend making this post at a tech forum (extreme overclocking et al) as the people buying new bits everyday "just to get an extra 2Mhz!!" out of it are the best people to ask. There is a good chance they can tell you the sweet spot with regards money/components. Good luck with your build .
Pardack	Posted - 2006.03.28 18:42:00 - [27] Edited by: Pardack on 28/03/2006 18:44:28 I recently upgraded my Mobo/CPU about 3 months ago. After doing some research and looking for good deals, I went with an Athlon64 3700+ ( Socket 939, rev e for the 1MB cache) with an Asus A8V-MX Motherboard (AGP, PCI-E and PCI Slots, SATA etc.), cost me around $300. If you go with a slower processor you should be able to get both for not much more than $200. The mobo only has 2 PCI slots and 2 ram slots, but works perfect for me. Newegg - A64 3200+ Newegg - Asus A8V-MX Motherboard
Emmerich Steiner	Posted - 2006.03.28 18:42:00 - [28] Problem with having DDR2 capabilities is that he is going to have to wait 3-4 months for the AM2 Motherboards to come out. And pay a premium for that ability.
Yojiritsu	Posted - 2006.03.28 23:10:00 - [29] The 5700 LE gfx card he uses is AGP. Gungan that means limited upgrade options if you want to keep the 5700 LE.
Emmerich Steiner	Posted - 2006.03.29 00:01:00 - [30] If that is the case, back up to the sempron64 idea, that is unless you want to fork over another 100-150 bucks for a 6600/6600GT PCI-e graphics card.

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