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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Miss CEO
Eternum Noctem
2
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Posted - 2011.11.10 22:04:00 -
[31] - Quote
The whole discussion about best counter is irrelevant while the game works the way it does. Noones going to put 50 pilots into EW ships on top of their own logistics to counter a fleet with 20...30 logistics, while it's far more effective to put 10...15 of those EW pilots into logistics to beat (or match) opponents logistics numbers and the rest into DPS boats.
It's as simple as that. Adding more logistics into your fleet is by far the cheapest (head count vise) method of adding performance and staying power. |
Quark Valhala
Empirius Enigmus Navy C0NVICTED
3
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Posted - 2011.11.10 22:23:00 -
[32] - Quote
How would locker breaker bombs work on this doctrine? Maybe give lock breaker a time delay from like a cycle time on jamers? |
Miss CEO
Eternum Noctem
2
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Posted - 2011.11.10 22:29:00 -
[33] - Quote
Quark Valhala wrote:How would locker breaker bombs work on this doctrine? Maybe give lock breaker a time delay from like a cycle time on jamers?
Not very well in high-sec and low-sec
In 0.0 it might disrupt the repairs for 4...5 seconds (or it could fail miserably). This means that you need a bomber to drop a new bomb like every 5 seconds to keep the pressure up and considering the bomb launcher cycle times, this amounts to a LOT of bombers. So again, the pilots are better spent in more logistics and DPS boats. |
Athena Silk
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
0
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Posted - 2011.11.11 10:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
Quark Valhala wrote:How would locker breaker bombs work on this doctrine? Maybe give lock breaker a time delay from like a cycle time on jamers? Considering that it also unlocks all the friendly ships in your fleet, I would say not very well
I agree with the gist of this thread: There needs to be something to counter logistics blobs in fleets. When the current counter is just "MOAR X!", it's kind of broken. Wasn't that pretty much the problem with Supers? The only counter to Supers was MOAR SUPERS!!1 until it got out of control. Similar issue with logistics. |
Raptor217
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
14
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Posted - 2011.11.11 12:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
Alpha fleet is the end all counter to excess RR. If you alpha the target, your reps don't matter. |
Miss CEO
Eternum Noctem
4
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Posted - 2011.11.11 15:18:00 -
[36] - Quote
Raptor217 wrote:Alpha fleet is the end all counter to excess RR. If you alpha the target, your reps don't matter.
alpha works great when you got the numbers (A.K.A. The BLOB). However, alpha counts for nothing if you do not have enough of it, as it usually is the case with small (20...40 man) fleets, which is what this thread is all about.
Now if alpha is the end all counter to RR, how does it work when you can not alpha your targets? |
shal ri
Zanzibar Land
1
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Posted - 2011.11.11 18:52:00 -
[37] - Quote
from wat i have seen in fleet fights with logi on the field u spread dps to a few targets find a target NOT being repped and alpha said target. this put preasure on logi as they have to spead out thier rr across many ships and they dont have time to rep the prime target. it more or less leads to the fc being smart about pickin targets best to hit. call prime, call second, call thrid fire on target spread dps call prime, target dies, rinse repeat. all depends on the fc really.
but to get back on topic, blobs suck. enough said. happy huntin |
Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
37
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Posted - 2011.11.11 19:50:00 -
[38] - Quote
so, youre facing arguably the best logistics alliance in the game who has drilled and practiced with their logistics pilots, and since youre not creative enough to think of a counter youre calling for a nerf . . .
Heres an idea, lets use the crazy amount of ships in game and see if we can come up with a counter shall we?
Hmmm lets think . . . what cant a logi-blob deal with . . . . OOH I KNOW . . . lets try alpha striking muninns from long range . . . we'll one volley the guardians one by one . . . |
Cassius Longinus
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
2
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Posted - 2011.11.13 17:54:00 -
[39] - Quote
Alpha works when you stack enough of it. for the munnin idea above, it works at about 50+ pilots. 1400's work better with painters, to the tune of 30ish.
Under that, you really can comp a falcon per logistics ship... if you can live with the shame of running 10 falcons. :)
HOWEVER, all I'm really posting here for is to throw this link here : http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=11523718 Count the logi. It's ridiculous, and it's a stale meta. |
Bacchanalian
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
22
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Posted - 2011.11.13 23:12:00 -
[40] - Quote
Sigras wrote:so, youre facing arguably the best logistics alliance in the game who has drilled and practiced with their logistics pilots, and since youre not creative enough to think of a counter youre calling for a nerf . . .
Heres an idea, lets use the crazy amount of ships in game and see if we can come up with a counter shall we?
Hmmm lets think . . . what cant a logi-blob deal with . . . . OOH I KNOW . . . lets try alpha striking muninns from long range . . . we'll one volley the guardians one by one . . .
Actually, we have a fairly standard unofficial policy of simply not engaging Rooks and Kings, or blobbing their "solo" pilots with enough to kill them before they can titan bridge in an entire fleet and disengage when and if they do. Which I'm not particularly proud of, but there's really little alternative besides simply ignoring their existence.
We had a fairly successful arty fleet last week where we mopped up a Sedition fleet with three guardians, but even just three logis with our ~20 alpha boats was causing havoc when we shot anything with more EHP than a BC. We resorted to the FC doing countdowns before we all pulled the trigger on the primary, and even then we'd generally land him at 30% armor and it would die to the second volley or drones despite the logi getting reps on him.
If it were 5 Guardians, we'd not have killed anything with more than 50k EHP.
Anyway, I think the point was made and hopefully it gets some wheels turning in someone's head at CCP.
EDIT: Incidentally, logistics having T2 resists, ABing around for transversal, and having the sig radius of a frigate means that arties simply don't track them well at all. Even with a TP or two they're very hard to hit, and as such relying arty to alpha them is a huge gamble that rarely pays off with a ~30 man fleet. Especially since any of the T2 arty ammo is useless with the tracking penalties. |
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Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
91
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Posted - 2011.11.13 23:57:00 -
[41] - Quote
Not supported. |
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