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Extregar Qvint
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:39:00 -
[31]
Allmus>> Run some missions for the caldari state. That will build some standing to the Amarr too. |
Itono
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Posted - 2006.03.31 12:58:00 -
[32]
just on the matter of "consequences of your actions, grow up dude": I would holeheartedly agree, if at the same time players with low security standing would not be able to get those back up, if choosing minmatar ships would lock out all other races, and if you where generally expected to reroll your char every six months or so.
what I'm trying to say is that while I accept the standing decrease when I'm doing hostile actions to that faction, I think that the irreversibility of the situation is not the way things are supposed to work in Eve.
btw, I think the idea to bribe an agent is very nice.
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Cpt Placeholder
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Posted - 2006.03.31 16:47:00 -
[33]
umm please dont use real life arguments
conequences are fine but points of no return arent
even a -10 pirate can rat his way up to neutral again
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Summersnow
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Posted - 2006.03.31 17:00:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Sorry, guys ... it's working exactly how it should. You're not SUPPOSED to be on friendly terms with mutually bitterly-hostile enemies. It shouldn't be possible.
Try working for both the CIA and the KGB back in the 1960s, and see if that means both the US and USSR like you 
Did the Beatles ever tour the Soviet Union?
Did that make the KoS in the US?
It is quite possible to be friendly with mutually hostile enemies.
You just need to not kill them 
The main problem I have with the mission faction system is that you only get one mission choice, the mission descriptions are vague enough at times to not indicate hits and most importantly the only real way to find out what each mission does is to go through each individual faction and click and inspect faction modifications for each and every one, which can take a good 15-30 minutes if you also try to figure out how much of a hit you took.
Turning in a mission should give me an after action report with credits earned, bonus earned, items recieved, lp recieved and faction adjustments.
This is a game after all, its supposed to be entertaining, not drudgury and "work" to find out what should be trivialy updated information.
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Summersnow
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Posted - 2006.03.31 17:06:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kery Nysell
If you have a bad standing, but your corp has a decent one, you could try making an alt of the bad standing Empire, who will have a positive standing from the start, recruit him in your corp, and do a bunch of missions with that alt to try to raise your corp's standing toward that faction enough to allow your main to once again do missions for level 1, negative quality agents ...
I beleive this was nurfed several patches ago and corp standing is no longer considered when an agent decides weather you can run missions or not ( because of the sploit you describe above )
If that isn't the case anymore and it got fixed back that would indeed be glorious news for a couple corp mates of mine.
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Kery Nysell
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Posted - 2006.03.31 17:34:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Summersnow
Originally by: Kery Nysell
If you have a bad standing, but your corp has a decent one, you could try making an alt of the bad standing Empire, who will have a positive standing from the start, recruit him in your corp, and do a bunch of missions with that alt to try to raise your corp's standing toward that faction enough to allow your main to once again do missions for level 1, negative quality agents ...
I beleive this was nurfed several patches ago and corp standing is no longer considered when an agent decides weather you can run missions or not ( because of the sploit you describe above )
If that isn't the case anymore and it got fixed back that would indeed be glorious news for a couple corp mates of mine.
I was only voicing some ideas, I don't know if it was nerfed or not, or if it works or not ...
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.04.01 08:44:00 -
[37]
At a faction standing of -2.0 you lose access to all their agents.
The faction hits for storyline missions outweigh the gains by far.
SOE, InterBus and Mordu's do not help because you lose your standing against some groups way faster than you gain with their friends.
Corps with good standing to all or most factions are rumored to have no storyline missions since Exodus. They are gonna get purged from the corp list - stated by Oveur a few weeks ago.
What does a researcher/manufacturer do? The professions ain't time consuming in themselves unless you count running missions for the standing for perfect refines and low taxes. I could go anywhere in empire and offer 100% refines and good market conditions within 2 jumps.
The unannounced changes to the system killed >YEARS< of balanced standing work within 2-3 days. After a big patch you might find me in help, but never on the forum.
@Gonada: Get lost. When I want fixed factions, I'm playing CS, WoW, DAoC or some other games set in Blue vs. Green vs. Yellow - or be a member of a corp out in 0.0. EVE used to be a game about your own decisions.
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Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Prestis
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Posted - 2006.04.01 11:53:00 -
[38]
Maybe this is finally an actual downside to doing end-game content (level 3 and 4 missions) with end-game rewards in complete safety from other players in high sec?
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.04.02 08:28:00 -
[39]
The security status has no influence on the outcome. You kill off standing much faster than you can gain it. (And derived positive standing is partially broken for half a year.)
I have no problem with working for pirates making me lose standing with the empires quickly. Working for the Blood Raiders certainly wont make you loved within the Amarr Not-An-Empire space.
The Thukker Tribe is no pirate faction. The tribe used to prefer the free and fiercly independent nomadic life. It just suddenly turned into a buddy of a lot of pirate factions they used to be at war with. We're still waiting for the promised fantastic storyline that will explain the changes SOONÖ.
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Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Yossar
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Posted - 2006.04.02 08:52:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Summersnow
Did the Beatles ever tour the Soviet Union?
Did that make the KoS in the US?
The CIA killed John Lennon.
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Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.04.02 11:31:00 -
[41]
/signed
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Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting |
Leandro Salazar
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Posted - 2006.04.02 11:53:00 -
[42]
While I do like that my actions finally have consequences (I relish my negative standing with the Froggies and do not go to western germany anyway ), I also agree that there needs to be a way to (slowly) fix your standing with hostile factions just like pie-rats can fix their sec status.
Or to keep things fair between PvEers and pie-rats, how about no more sec status gain for killing NPCs when your sec status is -2.0 or lower? :P
___________________________________
Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? |
MastaRob
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Posted - 2006.04.03 12:18:00 -
[43]
Agree. There should be no "point of no return" in Eve. Great idea with the bribes....
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Ashraaf
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Posted - 2006.04.03 13:38:00 -
[44]
I work on my faction
Diplomacy 5
1 gallantean corp 7+
I never go under 1 in the gallantean faction. When it's happen i go to the fed navy and do storyline to take a little boost
I have a minmattar corp at 5+ doing the same
i only need a amar corp but as i do caldari mission that's not a reel problem
the only problem is that no pirates corps accept to speak to me
I hope with factionnal warfare that 1 state get an association with one pirate faction
gallente helping guristas for example
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Dylatar
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Posted - 2006.04.03 14:14:00 -
[45]
Well I'm running lots of Lvl 4 too, and there is a very simple solution for this problem.
Beforeyour standing toward a faction drops too low, fly some missions for them. I fly mostly for Gallente, which means dropping at Caldari in the main. So I early enough did missions for Caldari Navy.
That means now I got a Caldari standing of about -3 (-1 with skills), but because my Caldari Navy standing of 3.5 I can at least acess their Lvl 3 agents, to get some important missions and compensate the standing loss.
You always gain more standing on the side you're working for than you loose on the other side(s), that means you can slowly raise all of them if you vary the factions. Sure thats hard work, but it shouldn't be easy to be "friend" of all factions, or be neutral. And don't do missions when you have to kill others factions ships.
And as someone before wrote ... yes, faction relationships develop to get ready for the faction warsystem. But to keep fair: not all players here are PvP players. There should be room for all. I guess fighting for the factions should be a thing of voluntarys, while people who don't want to fight should be seen as neutral civilians. I saw a nice implementation of something like that within Jumpgate, the game I played before Eve. There, you always had the choice to fly in one of three ship registration modes:
1) Civilian - protected in secure space (for Eve that would be like it is now)
2) Honor Guard - free to fight others with same registration everywhere
3) Pirate - an outlaw, attackable by everyone, everywhere
There were also some code implemented that automatically switched registrations by different actions. If you used pirate tools on other ships you were automatic switched to pirate registration if you had not before. If you engaged another ship and were flying as civilian, you were switched to honor guard automatic.
Only to mention for those who not knew Jumpgate.
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Jinx Barker
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Posted - 2006.04.03 14:49:00 -
[46]
I have mentioned similar concerns a long while ago, just when they first introduced the ôfaction warfareö onto the- ôDrawing Board.ö One of the things I have predicted, and I am sure I wasnÆt the only one at the time who saw it coming, was that once you drop bellow û5.0 with the opposing faction you are effectively severed from the 50% of the Empire. And, that allot of people, hell majority of people will not be happy about it.
Thruought this time I have been carefully moulding my Caldari/Gallente standings. I have been working for Gallente, and currently have 9.59 or 9.7 with them. I have û1.2 with Caldari and a û1.1 with Amarr.
Now, when Kali hits, and we all join forces against an opposing faction, the standings will start dropping dramatically. What we seeing now is just the tip of the iceberg.
Once Kali and faction wars are over, it is imperative that CCP institutes some kind of rehabilitation system which will allow players who lost the faction standing during the war, or due to running missions, to reinstate it or somehow increase it.
Lets face it, being cut off from 50% of Empire is no joke, and it could be a biggest joke ever, of course, on us as players.
If I choose to pirate, and eventually drop to û9.5, I can also choose to call a few of my mates in big alliances and go down to 0.0 and rat for a while. We all know that I can regain my positive security status after some belt grinding.
Now, we also need a system in place to help those who lost the standing through some Socially Conscientious work. What needs to be done, in my opinion, is this:
SOE Agents Improved (Introduce more Sisters of EVE Agents to ALL 4 Empires)
Interbus Agents FIXED, since they no longer give standing increases to Empires.
Some other system introduced, either advanced skill (as some mentioned), or some other way to get you out of û5.0 Faction hole.
There is going to be significant fallout if the issues with the factional standing loss/gain are not resolved. I honestly donÆt want to see it.
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Jet Collins
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Posted - 2006.04.03 16:31:00 -
[47]
First off thier is no part of Empire closed off to you because you have bad standing with the faction.
YOu can travel though thier space with relavie easy at this time and you can enter thier station. So presonlly for you flamers saying parts of empire a closed off your are "WRONG". Personally I wish is was more resrticted the worse your standing is or have more of a threat if you enter thier space.
As it is now.
My standings: Ammar = -6.0 or lower.
I can travel though any Ammar controled system. Only think happens is that 3 wimpy ships target me. And unless they spawn in the direction of the gate they won'e even fire, because they are to far away. This is the same I belvie weather your standing is -5.0 or -9.0 or in a 1.0 system or 0.5 system. And as far as I know you can enter anystation.
Now as far as not being able to run missions with them well you should have thought of that when you started blowing up thier ships  duuuuu...
The way I think it should be:
at a standing of -5.0 to -5.9 it stays how it is now. You enter thier region and you will be attacked by 3 ships. Enter a system that is 1.0 with this standing you might get attacked by an additional ship.
Standing of -6.0 to -7.49 You get engaged by 4-6 ships and 8 ships if you enter a system of with a security lvl of 1.0. Standing of -7.5 to -8.99 you will get engaged by 10-15 ships one of which is a BS. Enter a system that is 1.0 and you get 12-18 ships 3 of which are BS's. And finally a standing of -9 to -10 over 30 ships insta agro you over 5 of which are BS's and if you enter a system that is 1.0 than you get upwards of 4 ships insta argoing you 10 of which are BS and 1 of which is a titan or dread. The would be no way for you to survie if you enter such a situation. After all you are hated by the faction why should you beable to fly though it.
My thoughs
Jet
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crom ralphfao
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Posted - 2006.04.03 22:19:00 -
[48]
makes sense if players with low sec can raise so easily by 0.0 ratting.........but i guess that i dont mind the challenge, if there is one to regain status if you wanted.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.04.04 07:43:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Jet Collins
Stuff
If there wasn't a bug preventing you from getting attacked, you'd be attacked by Amarr naval forces as soon as you come close to them. The bug does not hit all pilots, and not all factions. That you're not attacked doesn't mean the pilot next to you under the same circumstances and the same standing isn't attacked.
-2.0 faction standing -> Not one agent of that faction will give you missions regardless of your corp standing.
-5.0 faction standing -> Local security forces attack you on sight.
--*=*=*--
Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
CaptainSeafort
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Posted - 2006.04.04 10:28:00 -
[50]
maybe just make it that killing rats gives you a tiny factrion boost. tehrefore, if i nuke my caldari standings, i can go to <0.5, and kill guristas for aaaaages - but it would be reliable, and not imbalancing afaics
"Planets and moons no longer hitch rides on player ships. Their towel privileges have been revoked." HHGG Lives on in EVE! |
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Tripp Orsam
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Posted - 2006.04.04 11:50:00 -
[51]
I both agree with the OP and disagree:
I agree that faction loss is bad UNLESS they add a warning just before entering systems where you will be shot down by police "Oh noes my HAC, wot da fark!" (or other ship with ridiculous insurance payout, command ship blah blah) please excuse me if this warning is already in place.
But I also disagree, I like the fact that the game factions are being parted and areas of space might be closed to certain factions, and I've always found it strange that a gallente pilot has no bonus for flying a gallente ship, or perhaps a caldari or amarr pilot having a small penalty for flying a gallente ship and vice-versa.
I just KNOW many will disagree with this as they have skills im MANY ship types and I hope they dont change this for your sakes, but I do still find it strange, becuase for now the only difference between a gallente pilot and a caldari pilot is the portrait and the speed at which they train skills, oh and where they start out.
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EVE Online perfectly strikes all your free time wrecking your 1994 marriage. |
Jet Collins
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Posted - 2006.04.04 12:14:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Tachy
-5.0 faction standing -> Local security forces attack you on sight.
I would like to hear from more people this is actually happening.
Yes within a few seconds of coming out of warp or uncloaking three ships spawn and lock you at 20km away. Now with the Ammar and Ammatar(I do not have a bad standing with other so not sure if they are different) they "DO NOT" attack unless you get within 5kms. So they "ONLY" way you well get attacked by them is if you fly at them or thier spawn happens to be in the dirrection of the gate or station you are headed to.
Plus if you people can not tank or kill this ships you should be flying a ship anyway....
As for the not being able to work for the corps in the faction I'm sure you do not have a neg standing with every corp in that faction so wouldn't it be possible to work for that corp you have a 0.0 standing with to get the faction standing positive. (Again I have not tested this because I have no desire to work for the Ammar or Ammatar.)
Jet
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Kathira
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Posted - 2006.04.04 12:47:00 -
[53]
I had a time with -3.80 faction to Caldari and around -2.80 to Amar in the past.
So I had no chance to work for an agent of them. I then tried some global organisations aka Sisters of EVE ..... . After spending some time with them my amar faction was good enough to work for them ( now around +5.x ). After that I made it with the Caldari ( now +2.x). But thats a long time ago cause I retired then from the game and came back a few weeks ago and working for my caldary faction up to now.
So when this stuff isn't changed, there is a chance for upping up your faction. But you'll have to start with some level 1 agents several times.
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Merdaneth
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Posted - 2006.04.04 12:49:00 -
[54]
I don't mind that you get negative standing, but there is no feasible way to repair standings.
My main char is Amarr, but while I see no problem in shooting down Minmatar or Gallente ships participating in illegal operations in Amarr space, I don't particpate in missions that bring people into slavery.
I even accept slave as rewards with the express purpose of setting them free! I agree with most Amarr laws and customs, but not all. I want to transport slaves I get as reward back to Minmatar space, but currently I cannot, because customs will arrest me, and will punish me for doing so too! Best thing I can do it 'trash' the slaves in my effort to 'buy' their freedom. I don't get any positive standing for these actions from Gallente/Minmatar, while I think I should.
My character is not opposed to Gallente or Minmatar, he is opposed to Gallente and Minmatar *terrorists*, but will try to help others, and prevent them from falling into slavery.
I am not opposed to a particular race, I am opposed by any person that takes particular actions to achieve their goals. There is no way to represent this properly in the game, now you can either be with a faction, or against them. I can understand tension and conflicts between nations, but why should factions be one-dimensional racial bigots? Their space should be crawling with internal rivals, some of which, remembering that I regularly free slaves, should certainly be inclined to give me missions.
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Tripp Orsam
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Posted - 2006.04.04 13:06:00 -
[55]
interesting post Merdaneth
Perhaps CCP could elaborate on a possible smuggler proffesion, a player taking this path would require good standing with all factions or at least a reasonable way to keep all these factions at a respectable level.
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EVE Online perfectly strikes all your free time wrecking your 1994 marriage. |
Hugh Ruka
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Posted - 2006.04.04 14:26:00 -
[56]
Exactly for this purpose we have a strict rule not to take any missions (except storyline) that cause a standing hit.
However I do not think it is such a problem. Only industrial pilots that want to have perfect refine are affected. Mission runners can keep up good enough standing with many corporations in different empires to do level 4 missions. It takes work and time but is doable.
What I would like is that same works for security status. Once you cross certain point, you will never again be able to regain it in an easy way (or at all).
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if you want peace, prepare for war ...
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Removed due to offensive content - Laqum
I realy liked my signature. Oh well |
Jaketh Ivanes
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Posted - 2006.04.04 14:35:00 -
[57]
This have proly been said before and is only hear-say so far, but Interbus should increase your standing with all empires and Thukker with all Pirate factions.
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Mikal Drey
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Posted - 2006.04.04 15:06:00 -
[58]
hey hey
i must admit that faction standings and the possible future of factional warfare seems to have everybody's back up. personall i am proud of my -9 to amarr. yes quite possibly it makes the game a little more difficult for me but thats all part of the challenge of EVE.
having negative standing can already be improved by the diplomacy skill but the porblem that peeps dont seem to notice is that you can only train a skill the once. If your diplomacy is 5 already and you continue to spank and eat amarrian babies then your gonna have no point of return. I love the game the way it is atm. CCP constantly change the dynamics but the story still remains.
TBH even in RL if i attack someone then they arent gonna sit there and take it and i would expect them to fight back AND have some way of tracking my naughty behaviour. (standings) i feel that if we go down the route of being able to FIX standngs then the story is gone. also i you consider player standings towards each other they should then make it possible for a player to somehow earn it back. the factional standings system seems to be pretty much intact and should remain so. however; forced factional player V player warfare is another matter and im still trying to consider my opinion on that.
NPC's are people too.
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343Guiltyspark
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Posted - 2006.04.04 16:07:00 -
[59]
Edited by: 343Guiltyspark on 04/04/2006 16:10:12
Edited by: 343Guiltyspark on 04/04/2006 16:07:21
Originally by: Calio
If making half of empire space off limits to the player body is just another poorly thought out scheme on CCP's part to push players out into 0.0 space, it will fail as did all their other attempts, because the large majority of players detest PvP and will avoid it at almost all costs (and it is a testament to the quality of this ganme that so many players stick with it despite the PvP).
I wouldn't mind getting into PvP, but the costs are way to high. In other games if you PvP and get killed, there is some form of cloning and you re-appear with all of your stuff. It may be a little worn, but you still have it. Losing 4 or 5 ships a day just isn't viable. I can see why people have macro mining accounts. It's almost a MUST for hardcore PvPers because of the costs involved to replace equipment.
I lost a Raven recently, and it's taken me more than a week of mining just to replace it.
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Severe McCald
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Posted - 2006.04.04 17:08:00 -
[60]
Once upon a time your standings were planned to drift back towards neutral over time, if you behaved yourself/didn't do missions to hack off the other faction.
Mission runners, in particular, squawked a lot louder than you (those of you *****ing in this thread) are doing about losing positive standings. Maybe this is CCP's way of getting mission runners to ask for the system they originally had in mind.
Personally, I think Interbus should be fixed (although maybe it should be less generous than it was), but otherwise you should take the faction hit for killing another faction's ships. Doing courier missions should not cause an opposing faction any serious concern.
Oh, btw, would refusing missions with your positive agents (causing you to lose standing with them) gain you any standing with the agent's faction enemy? I have no idea - just a thought.
Sev
I saw a squirrel today jumping from one tree to another, the branch it landed on snapped. So the squirrel was on this falling branch, clambering like mad, thinking it was doing something about it.'
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