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Jon Rackham
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.01.30 17:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Here's a challenge for the forum community: what do you think is the most COST EFFECTIVE battleship for running level 4 missions? Not the fastest or safest, but the best bang for your buck. I'm not looking for ISK/hour here, but ISK/hour/initial ISK invested. For example, a navy battleship that costs three times as much as it's ordinary counterpart would only be as cost effective if it actually cleared missions three times as fast. I'll start: I think it's the Raven. Fitted with cruise launchers (ideally T2) you can kite the room and match damage types to your targets. Maybe fit a single target painter to help with the cruisers. Give it an afterburner to better hold range and a good peak tank for when you need it. No expensive modules, no T2 rigs, but you still clear rooms quick and you never have to worry about range. Other ships I think would be good: Dominix (also matches damage type to rats), Hyperion and Rokh (if in Guristas or Serpentis space). |

Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1465
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 17:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jon Rackham wrote:For example, a navy battleship that costs three times as much as it's ordinary counterpart would only be as cost effective if it actually cleared missions three times as fast.
This is stupid.
What you're really asking is for the best level 4 non-fation t2 fit battleship, because this metric rules out basically everything else. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |

Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
265
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 17:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
You will need to specify a time frame for this, mission long enough with anything and it becomes cost effective If in doubt...do...excessively. |

Jon Rackham
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.01.30 17:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Jon Rackham wrote:For example, a navy battleship that costs three times as much as it's ordinary counterpart would only be as cost effective if it actually cleared missions three times as fast. This is stupid. What you're really asking is for the best level 4 non-fation t2 fit battleship, because this metric rules out basically everything else.
You could think of it that way if you prefer. |

Gregor Parud
169
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Posted - 2014.01.30 17:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
No, your post (and specifically that remark) makes no sense. |

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3483
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Posted - 2014.01.30 17:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:You will need to specify a time frame for this, mission long enough with anything and it becomes cost effective
Seconding that "you need to specify a time frame".
And generally speaking, the hull cost of most t1 Battleships are similar to each other. Then using t2 BS's, Navy, or Pirate BS's are better under various situations. Faction and deadspace modules are also ways you can improve your ships performance for a wide variety of pricing.
Are you expecting to pay for it in 30 hours of missioning? 100 hours of missioning? 500 hours of missioning?
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Jon Rackham
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.01.30 18:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:You will need to specify a time frame for this, mission long enough with anything and it becomes cost effective Seconding that "you need to specify a time frame". And generally speaking, the hull cost of most t1 Battleships are similar to each other. Then using t2 BS's, Navy, or Pirate BS's are better under various situations. Faction and deadspace modules are also ways you can improve your ships performance for a wide variety of pricing. Are you expecting to pay for it in 30 hours of missioning? 100 hours of missioning? 500 hours of missioning? I think you're confusing cost effectiveness with profitability. I'm not asking about how much time is required to make back the investment. For purposes of this challenge: Cost Effectiveness = ISK earned / hour / ISK invested Profitability = ISK earned / hour * hours spent missioning - ISK invested = ISK earned - ISK invested |

Degnar Oskold
Justified Chaos
71
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Posted - 2014.01.30 18:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Perhaps a better way of phrasing this would be:
Which missioning battleship & fit will give the fastest return on its cost from Level 4 missions? |

Sentenced 1989
Quantum Anomaly Corporation
36
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Posted - 2014.01.30 18:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Degnar Oskold wrote:Perhaps a better way of phrasing this would be:
Which missioning battleship & fit will give the fastest return on its cost from Level 4 missions?
230 mill for the fit, pulse the repper, use AB only to go to the gates, might consider MWD if you have great skills and are confident you know how to fly your ship. Considering the tank is more then sufficient (omni tanked) and no need to refit, makes it even faster in terms of dock->grab next mission->undock. Maybe raven would outperform this, but never did use Raven so can't say for sure.
[Maelstrom, PVE Shield Artillery] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I 100MN Afterburner II
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I
Warrior II x10 Valkyrie II x5 Republic Fleet EMP L x3000 Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L x3000 Republic Fleet Fusion L x3000 Nanite Repair Paste x100
EDIT: Oh yea, drones for small stuff, guns for cruisers or battleships, could snipe frigs at 30+ km... If you are going for angels, definitely swap for 800's, this is the fit I used in Caldari space about 3 years ago (with meta IV guns)
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Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
266
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Posted - 2014.01.30 18:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
i think the op is looking to justify a stingy bs fit, which is fine. however i still think a time frame would ad a whole lot of context to this. If in doubt...do...excessively. |

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2670
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 18:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Typhoon is the cheapest T1 hull afaik. Oh god. |

Layla Firoue
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
51
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Posted - 2014.01.30 18:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Despite the omni link nerf a sentry domi is still comparatively cheap and a fairly decent L 4 runner, now more than ever since fed navy omnis are worthless now and therefore not necessary.
And it will have better range/tracking and damage projection than the Mael fit some other guy posted. |

Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
470
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Posted - 2014.01.31 00:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Raven works good. Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat dessert first! |

Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
338
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 01:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jon Rackham wrote:Here's a challenge for the forum community: what do you think is the most COST EFFECTIVE battleship for running level 4 missions? A cruiser fit to speed run and we name it "a battleship"?  cha-ching!
Otherwise, raven? Fairly cheap to fit, easy enough to fly. Anything with range seems less risky for pve. |

Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
259
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 02:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: mission long enough with anything and it becomes cost effective Unless it get attracts suicide gankers. |

Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
338
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 03:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: mission long enough with anything and it becomes cost effective Unless it get attracts suicide gankers. Well yes, which is why a CNR isn't always ideal, even less a Golem. You either best have your d-scan open, and/or have a second account char on grid with some appropriate counter measure fit. Or just do as I do and hop in a scorp to do missions now and then when things seem odd in your usual mission locations but need a BS for some reason (though often a cruiser is enough). But ravens are effective enough, not so much a high-profile target, affordable if lost. You just need to be aware of kill/pod activity in recent hours, who's operating in surrounding space, know your possible exit possibilities, watch for probes. |

Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
156
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Posted - 2014.01.31 03:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
[Typhoon, LVL 4 Sansha - 84km]
Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Drone Damage Amplifier II Coreli C-Type EM Plating Armor Thermic Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Sensor Booster II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script Large Micro Jump Drive
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Curator II x4 |

Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
260
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 03:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Hesod Adee wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: mission long enough with anything and it becomes cost effective Unless it get attracts suicide gankers. Well yes, which is why a CNR isn't always ideal, even less a Golem. You either best have your d-scan open, and/or have a second account char on grid with some appropriate counter measure fit. Or just do as I do and hop in a scorp to do missions now and then when things seem odd in your usual mission locations but need a BS for some reason (though often a cruiser is enough). But ravens are effective enough, not so much a high-profile target, affordable if lost. You just need to be aware of kill/pod activity in recent hours, who's operating in surrounding space, know your possible exit possibilities, watch for probes. I thought the suicide gankers would scan your ship (or find some other way to get your fit) and assess if it's a profitable target first. Then gank it if it was worth hitting. So an expensive hull wouldn't make you a gank target if you weren't running expensive modules.
Well, unless you did something which let gankers hit you without having to worry about Concord. |

Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
338
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 04:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote: I thought the suicide gankers would scan your ship (or find some other way to get your fit) and assess if it's a profitable target first. Then gank it if it was worth hitting. So an expensive hull wouldn't make you a gank target if you weren't running expensive modules.
Well, unless you did something which let gankers hit you without having to worry about Concord.
Well you can only be ship scanned within 60km, you just need to be aware as you move to objectives. Maybe hanging around busy SOE mission hubs isn't a bright idea. Obviously faction and T2 ships will often more likely be sporting more expensive modules, receive more attention. |

Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
216
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 09:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
I would suggest an Apocalypse with T2 Pulse if you fly Missions in Amarr Space.
Its kinda cheep, fast and you can save some ISK with T1 Ammunition. |

Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
268
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 12:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: mission long enough with anything and it becomes cost effective Unless it get attracts suicide gankers. True If in doubt...do...excessively. |

Treborr MintingtonJr
Quantum Reality R n D Spaceship Samurai
158
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 13:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Most "cost" effective battleship, looting a Machariel BPC from a complex and then building it.
Warning may not be the most time effective. |

Jon Rackham
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 01:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Jon Rackham wrote:Here's a challenge for the forum community: what do you think is the most COST EFFECTIVE battleship for running level 4 missions? A cruiser fit to speed run and we name it "a battleship"?  cha-ching! Otherwise, raven? Fairly cheap to fit, easy enough to fly. Anything with range seems less risky for pve.
I've heard of running Level 4s in a BC, but never in a cruiser. I'm worried that anything without at least a BC's tank would get squashed by those few rooms that aggro you right away at close range.
|

unreasonable reason
University of Caille Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2014.02.01 14:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jon Rackham wrote:Webvan wrote:Jon Rackham wrote:Here's a challenge for the forum community: what do you think is the most COST EFFECTIVE battleship for running level 4 missions? A cruiser fit to speed run and we name it "a battleship"?  cha-ching! Otherwise, raven? Fairly cheap to fit, easy enough to fly. Anything with range seems less risky for pve. I've heard of running Level 4s in a BC, but never in a cruiser. I'm worried that anything without at least a BC's tank would get squashed by those few rooms that aggro you right away at close range.
ishtar/gila, run into the last room, kill objective, fly back to station, turn in, repeat. cost about as much as a t1 BS (perhaps a little more depending on final count after fittings) and similar tank all in small fast package. |

Silivar Karkun
We are not bad. Just unlucky Goonswarm Federation
150
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 17:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
im surprised that one one has mentioned the raven as the best cost effective platform, damage type selection from missiles, fast due to being a shield ship, not very cap dependant than other hulls...... |

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2678
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 20:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
I prefer Typhoon, personally. Oh god. |

Shoto Foom
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 21:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
Raven hands down
the skill investment to make turret boats start to pull ahead in kill efficacy is quite high
low skills/low investment the Raven has no equal for being able to take down lvl 4,s per isk invested and per train time
and no cap on weapons, decent tank, no tracking concerns, huge range. |

RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
709
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 21:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Doing the mission as fast as possible is what's cost effective. Any way you can improve the speed is cost effective.
As long as you don't lose the ship, Hull and mods are just assets. You can always resell them.
Finding the cheapest, slowest, way to do missions, is not *cost effective* imo. So the goal is ALWAYS IMPROVE your isk per hour.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
13619
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 21:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jon Rackham wrote: I'm not looking for ISK/hour here, but ISK/hour/initial ISK invested. For example, a navy battleship that costs three times as much as it's ordinary counterpart would only be as cost effective if it actually cleared missions three times as fast.
What's the value of this metric? If you were expecting to lose these battleships very frequently, then it would make sense, but a PvE battleship, especially if you're using it for hi-sec level 4 missions, can reasonably be expected to clear a very large number of missions before you lose it.
The correct calculation to make is [expected income rate] * [expected lifetime of the ship] - [TCO of the ship]
So let's say that you expect the ship to last 6 months. If during those 6 months, a navy ship with faction damage mods will make you an extra 2 billion ISK more than a T2 fitted standard hull, then it's easily worth spending an 1 extra billion ISK on the faction setup. After the 6 months are up you'll have a billion more ISK in your wallet - and you might not have lost the ship, in which case you also have a 1 billion ISK asset.
This especially holds true when you consider that faction ships typically have more EHP, more fittings, and higher damage projection, so you're less likely to lose them to rats. Generally you don't have to put a gank-attracting fit on them if you don't want to (eg: a Machariel does very well with nothing more than a couple of faction damage mods and maybe a cheap deadspace prop mod)
1 Kings 12:11
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FerrunOnFire
Tzolk'in Infinite Possibilities.
1
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Posted - 2014.02.02 21:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
what you asking is the fasts way to get isk from lvl 4, if skill ore standing is not a issue.
And thats a cane with AB and and AC, taking specfice missions
100 mill pay out earned back in 2 hours |
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