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Le'Mon Tichim
End-of-Line
122
   |
Posted - 2014.01.31 16:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
Morganta wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:D3m0n sam wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:D3m0n sam wrote:All im saying is. basically you can just invalidate a suspect timer on a ship by just having a non-suspect pilot jump in. This is kinda bull **** for suicide ganking. How does it do anything to suicide ganking? If you are suicide ganking, their suspect timer doesn't mean a thing. Well think about it. We where about to point the freighter to get people to then kill it. However you switch pilot and get rid of the suspect on the freighter meaning it can run away without being contested. That makes no sense. If it has a suspect timer, then it's not a suicide gank, that's just a kill. If you are suicide ganking then your target doesn't have a suspect timer to begin with. suspect timer is on the SECOND FREIGHTER that scooped the lewt from the first freighter once you scoop lewt you get a suspect flag if you don't own the lewt shoot suspect suspect ejects neut boards ship no longer carries suspect flag for occupant ship departs, jumps, slowburns, logoffskis terrible gankers complain bitterly on forum
Demon has apparently done a HORRIBLE job of getting across that it was OUR freighter that got ganked.
This WHOLE thread is supposed to be about finding out if the "not allowed to board a ship that is targeted" mechanic has changed.
We're NOT bitter gankers, we're just trying to figure out why it happened.
Can you hear them? They are calling to us. It is beautiful.
http://thegreattichim.wordpress.com/ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2488
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 16:07:00 -
[32] - Quote
D3m0n sam wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:D3m0n sam wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:D3m0n sam wrote:All im saying is. basically you can just invalidate a suspect timer on a ship by just having a non-suspect pilot jump in. This is kinda bull **** for suicide ganking. How does it do anything to suicide ganking? If you are suicide ganking, their suspect timer doesn't mean a thing. Well think about it. We where about to point the freighter to get people to then kill it. However you switch pilot and get rid of the suspect on the freighter meaning it can run away without being contested. That makes no sense. If it has a suspect timer, then it's not a suicide gank, that's just a kill. If you are suicide ganking then your target doesn't have a suspect timer to begin with. Yes but a kill which get nullified because they switch the pilot. Sorry but you should not be able to switch pilot just to get rid of a suspect of a ship. The target will have a suspect because he scooped the damn looted. The only one will not have suspect is the next freighter pilot who switches with the other one. But it's not a suspect timer on the ship. It's a suspect timer on the pilot. If it was on the ship, then someone with a suspect timer could just swap ships and fly off with not a care in the world.
And kills get nullified. If you go to gank someone and they swap ships from an orca, you lose the gank. They thought about it, adapted and reacted faster than you did. That's EVE.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness
1957
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 16:10:00 -
[33] - Quote
nobody can tell you if the mechanic is correct or not because nobody in your group can actually express what EXACTLY happened
from START TO FINISH |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
755
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 16:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jamagh wrote:Pretty sure that it is the PILOT not the SHIP that has the suspect timer. After all, the ship is not the one that did bad things. Do the cops arrest the car that was speeding? Or the driver?
They do when it comes to concord and criminal timers.
But consistency? In MY eve?
Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy
Caldari State
472
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 16:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:Yep, petition as exploit.
working as intended |
Alice Ituin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
50
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
Morganta wrote:nobody can tell you if the mechanic is correct or not because nobody in your group can actually express what EXACTLY happened
from START TO FINISH
lol, it's pretty obvious what happened to anyone who ever saw a freighter gank:
freighter get's bumped off the gate and calls his friends,
gankers bring in second freighter, ganker kill first freighter,
second freighter scoops the loot and thus goes blinky,
friends of first freighter try to point second freighter to get the loot back
However gankers brought in second non-blinky pilot how boarded the second freighter after it's pilot became blinky and could freely warp off with the loot.
just out of curiosity: if you point the flashy freighter and THEN they do the switch..... do you then get concordokkened for aggressing the non flashy pilot? |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4247
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
Alice Ituin wrote:Morganta wrote:nobody can tell you if the mechanic is correct or not because nobody in your group can actually express what EXACTLY happened
from START TO FINISH lol, it's pretty obvious what happened to anyone who ever saw a freighter gank: freighter get's bumped off the gate and calls his friends, gankers bring in second freighter, ganker kill first freighter, second freighter scoops the loot and thus goes blinky, friends of first freighter try to point second freighter to get the loot back However gankers brought in second non-blinky pilot how boarded the second freighter after it's pilot became blinky and could freely warp off with the loot. just out of curiosity: if you point the blinky freighter and THEN they do the switch..... do you then get concordokkened for aggressing the non blinky pilot or does the point just drop off immediately?
Since the "white hats" in this case were the people who lost their freighter, they, being white hats and therefore horrible evil carebears who are not only out to ruin the game with their carebearness but the entire world too (according to the usual screed of the leet highsec PVPer) probably had their buttons on green.
Oh, how dare they! They were supposed to get concorded to the gankers could point and laugh about that too.
Anyway, it looks like someone pulled a little trick. It's said that the owner of the ship can board it even if locked. So perhaps the gank squad made sure to use the alternate pilot that was NOT the owner and have the actual owner ready to take the ship back.
If this is the case, and doable, be ready to see this become as common as NRR.
Exploit?
Well, if the cops were chasing a car full of stolen loot, and the driver stops and gets out, and they see someone else jump in, do they just forget about the new driver?
Of course if this is an exploit or a bug, and it gets fixed by some "flagged cargo" mechanic ("possession of stolen property"), expect to see "flagged cargo suspect baiting" as the alpha aspies seek newer ways to bonk the other kids in the sandbox with the pail and shovel and then point and laugh. |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1203
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
Jamagh wrote:Pretty sure that it is the PILOT not the SHIP that has the suspect timer. After all, the ship is not the one that did bad things. Do the cops arrest the car that was speeding? Or the driver?
i'm not sure about who did all the evil things....
but if you are militia member and NPC attacks you and you eject from ship NPC still kills the ship. And yes, you get new NPC spawn
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
122
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:03:00 -
[39] - Quote
This is a tactic that has been used since ages ago. Once I got baited into shooting a mission griefer. When I taunted him to pod me (on his cyclone) he did, and then boarded a rifter from the orca right next to us. Concord killed his rifter. When I petitioned it, the logs showed nothing.
This was way way before crimewatch and suspect timers and all this junk.
This is as nice as I get.
Best quote ever
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165 |
Yarda Black
Epidemic.
Spaceship Samurai
19
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:12:00 -
[40] - Quote
- freighter gets ganked.
- freighter belonging to the gankers loots the wreck and get a suspect timer.
- that freighter is locked up and shot at
- pilot ejects
- freighter becomes object in space
- pilotless freighter is locked up - before another pod clicks "board"
- DESPITE being locked up, a new pilot gets in the freighter
If thats what happened, then I think that shouldn't be possible either. I wasnt there tho, so I have no idea how close this second freighterpilot was and how fast he was able to click "board" compared to the first pilot clicking "eject". |
Icylce
The Chosen 0nes
Mildly Sober
16
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:26:00 -
[41] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Anyway, it looks like someone pulled a little trick. It's said that the owner of the ship can board it even if locked. So perhaps the gank squad made sure to use the alternate pilot that was NOT the owner and have the actual owner ready to take the ship back.
I might be wrong here, but I don't think EVE as a game does differentiate between owning ship and possesing ship. So if u posses a ship (board it) u become an owner and the guy who owned it before u does not retain his ownership right. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4249
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:32:00 -
[42] - Quote
Icylce wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Anyway, it looks like someone pulled a little trick. It's said that the owner of the ship can board it even if locked. So perhaps the gank squad made sure to use the alternate pilot that was NOT the owner and have the actual owner ready to take the ship back.
I might be wrong here, but I don't think EVE as a game does differentiate between owning ship and possesing ship. So if u posses a ship (board it) u become an owner and the guy who owned it before u does not retain his ownership right.
This has me confused. I don't recall "locking" a ship after ejecting. Of course every time I eject from a ship, it's in such manner that there is nothing to lock.  |
Icylce
The Chosen 0nes
Mildly Sober
16
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Icylce wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Anyway, it looks like someone pulled a little trick. It's said that the owner of the ship can board it even if locked. So perhaps the gank squad made sure to use the alternate pilot that was NOT the owner and have the actual owner ready to take the ship back.
I might be wrong here, but I don't think EVE as a game does differentiate between owning ship and possesing ship. So if u posses a ship (board it) u become an owner and the guy who owned it before u does not retain his ownership right. This has me confused. I don't recall "locking" a ship after ejecting. Of course every time I eject from a ship, it's in such manner that there is nothing to lock.
Well in RL there is difference between "owning" and "possesing". But since player boarded the ship he becomes the owner. After he leaves it, the game rememers him as owner. Thats why there cant be another guys u refer to as "actual owner" who jumps into the ship. All previous owners are not recognized by the game, hence the situation u described should not be possible. |
Tasiv Deka
End-of-Line
202
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 21:26:00 -
[44] - Quote
Yarda Black wrote:- freighter gets ganked.
- freighter belonging to the gankers loots the wreck and get a suspect timer.
- that freighter is locked up and shot at
- pilot ejects
- freighter becomes object in space
- pilotless freighter is locked up - before another pod clicks "board"
- DESPITE being locked up, a new pilot gets in the freighter
If thats what happened, then I think that shouldn't be possible either. I wasnt there tho, so I have no idea how close this second freighterpilot was and how fast he was able to click "board" compared to the first pilot clicking "eject".
This is the correct sequence of events
Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts...-á
The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth. |
Le'Mon Tichim
End-of-Line
122
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 21:27:00 -
[45] - Quote
Yarda Black wrote:- freighter gets ganked.
- freighter belonging to the gankers loots the wreck and get a suspect timer.
- that freighter is locked up and shot at
- pilot ejects
- freighter becomes object in space
- pilotless freighter is locked up - before another pod clicks "board"
- DESPITE being locked up, a new pilot gets in the freighter
If thats what happened, then I think that shouldn't be possible either. I wasnt there tho, so I have no idea how close this second freighterpilot was and how fast he was able to click "board" compared to the first pilot clicking "eject".
^ THAT is what happened. That's what we're confused about. Freighter goes flashy, freighter is locked, pilot ejects, new pod boards a ship that several people have targeted.
Can you hear them? They are calling to us. It is beautiful.
http://thegreattichim.wordpress.com/ |
Rekkr Nordgard
The Ardency of Faith
367
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 21:43:00 -
[46] - Quote
D3m0n sam wrote:Story is freighter got suspect our guys started locking the freighter.
Did any of you actually complete the lock before the ejection and reboarding happened? Because I'm pretty sure the mechanic only kicks in if you complete the lock and not if you're just in the process of locking.
That's the only thing I can think of that wouldn't make this a bug or exploit. |
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
66
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 00:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
Being able to board a locked ship that is not yours should not be possible, if there is a bug causing that to be possible than I would agree this is an exploit. Otherwise I suspect that something else occurred here that you simply didn't notice. Impossible to say though - without video documentation of the incident, this is all here-say anyways. |
Lugia3
Emerald Inc.
791
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 01:31:00 -
[48] - Quote
Maybe the dude who first locked and started shooting the freighter burned over and jumped in. It's based on a priority order, with the first dude to get lock getting access to the ship.
Problem solved, nothing to see here. Paniced freighter ejects and random pewpewer jumps in.
"CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik |
Your Dad Naked
State War Academy
Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 05:02:00 -
[49] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:But it's not a suspect timer on the ship. It's a suspect timer on the pilot. If it was on the ship, then someone with a suspect timer could just swap ships and fly off with not a care in the world.
And kills get nullified. If you go to gank someone and they swap ships from an orca, you lose the gank. They thought about it, adapted and reacted faster than you did. That's EVE.
The intention of the suspect timer when looting wrecks is to allow other users to shoot down pilots whom attempt to escape with the wreck. By switching ships they are eluding the ability to be shot down with the loot, thus it is an exploit by definition.
Most exploits can easily be argued with, "well, that's EVE." "That's how it is." "That's how it's designed". This misses the point entirely, which is that the design itself is flawed. The design does not meet the intention.
When a logistics repairs a suspect, the logistics also goes suspect. Thus we can conclude the intention of the game mechanics is so assisting suspects gives you a suspect flag. Moving the entirety of the loot for them - which was the reason they went suspect to begin with - is far more an assistance than even logistics is. |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
106
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 05:07:00 -
[50] - Quote
How much was lost? Sleeper loot I take it?
I just stole a neut's tengu today myself. Pointed him, he ejected to save his pod. i can confirm that i could not board the tengu while it was locked by our interceptors. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1032
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 06:01:00 -
[51] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:How much was lost? Sleeper loot I take it?
I just stole a neut's tengu today myself. Pointed him, he ejected to save his pod. i can confirm that i could not board the tengu while it was locked by our interceptors.
Can you confirm if you lost lock on the Tengu when he ejected or if you kept lock on the now empty ship. |
Cannibal Kane
My Little Ponies of the Apocalypse
Cannibal Empire
3261
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 09:46:00 -
[52] - Quote
I tried the same thing now.
Could not board a locked ship. I think you guys need to beat the **** out of somebody in your group.
"I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS |
D3m0n sam
End-of-Line
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 11:58:00 -
[53] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:I tried the same thing now.
Could not board a locked ship. I think you guys need to beat the **** out of somebody in your group.
Did you eject then have another pilot jump in? or just you eject then jump back in? |
Doc Severide
State War Academy
Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 14:49:00 -
[54] - Quote
Jamagh wrote:Pretty sure that it is the PILOT not the SHIP that has the suspect timer. After all, the ship is not the one that did bad things. Do the cops arrest the car that was speeding? Or the driver?
Here in Toronto, the cops just shoot everyone. The driver, the victum, the car, any witnesses, etc... |
Mocam
EVE University
Ivy League
420
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 14:55:00 -
[55] - Quote
Rekkr Nordgard wrote:D3m0n sam wrote:Story is freighter got suspect our guys started locking the freighter. Did any of you actually complete the lock before the ejection and reboarding happened? Because I'm pretty sure the mechanic only kicks in if you complete the lock and not if you're just in the process of locking. That's the only thing I can think of that wouldn't make this a bug or exploit.
That's a good question but odds are good that locks would be on pretty fast - it's a freighter and locking one of those is *NOT* a long process even in a battleship.
From other reports of not being able to board ships while locks were on them, I'd guess that this *MIGHT* be the issue - or it's a very funky bug more specific to freighters than generic or we'd have heard about it long before this. |
D3m0n sam
End-of-Line
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 15:11:00 -
[56] - Quote
Mocam wrote:Rekkr Nordgard wrote:D3m0n sam wrote:Story is freighter got suspect our guys started locking the freighter. Did any of you actually complete the lock before the ejection and reboarding happened? Because I'm pretty sure the mechanic only kicks in if you complete the lock and not if you're just in the process of locking. That's the only thing I can think of that wouldn't make this a bug or exploit. That's a good question but odds are good that locks would be on pretty fast - it's a freighter and locking one of those is *NOT* a long process even in a battleship. From other reports of not being able to board ships while locks were on them, I'd guess that this *MIGHT* be the issue - or it's a very funky bug more specific to freighters than generic or we'd have heard about it long before this.
Sadly i wasn't there. i'm just going off what i was told so i have no clue if the lock actually completed or not. However even if the locked didn't complete and they did the change over which they did. should still be a viable kill to be honest. But then again that is just me.
|
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
196
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 20:57:00 -
[57] - Quote
Tul Breetai wrote:THEY CAN STILL BOARD A LOCKED SHIP IF THEY'RE THE OWNER
gawddamn k-spacers need to lrn2experiment...
EDIT: bro, ur not even a k--spacer. much disappoint.
Ownership is transferred to the person who boards the ship so the owner ejecting can re-board but before whatever caused this glitch no one else could if the ship is targeted.
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