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A perfect Fix to WCS and Warp Scrambler Issues

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Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.01 20:30:00 - [1] A stack based system would work better afaik. Proposed it a fair few times before. And you're giving interCEPTORS a bonus. This is incorrect. The ships which are designed to stop things are interDICTORS. The stilleto with its 4 mids is the odd one out of the interceptors, not the other way round. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.01 20:45:00 - [2] It's a stat they added and accidentlally left in from a removed system. Nothing more, nothing less. Chance based scrambling would kill off piracy entirely, and chance based webbing would mean a lot of frigate combat would be purely luck-based. Bleh. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.02 19:34:00 - [3] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 02/04/2006 19:40:25 Ohnoes, you might not be jammed for 2s of a 30s cycle. Wait, you think that makes a DIFFERENCE? You need to relock, ffs. Sigh. The "propulsion" stat is severely race biased and makes no sense whatsoever. It's there because as far as I know, NO stat for an item had been removed from the database when something's gone live. My idea here: Stack-based scrambling "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.03 12:39:00 - [4] Originally by: Joerd Toastius It means you have to relock every cycle. Or you could just make it 15+(sensor/ECM)*15 or variants thereon. As to the propulsion strength stat, it could easily be tweaked - it's a database variable which already exists and fits the purpose nicely, there seems no obvious reason to start totally from scratch. NO, it does not "fit", that was intended for webifiers. PROPULSION strenght and WARP CORP strenght are entirely different things. And there needs to be other answers beside the fragile and suicidal interdictors. (They've been popped the majority of times I've seen people use them). "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.06 20:39:00 - [5] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 06/04/2006 20:39:36 Phoenix Jones, I am in favour of a nerf of the effectiveness of Nos against smaller ships, and this would likely be significant in it. My problem with your system is the linear effect it gives to smaller ships. One with 4 WCS is going to be very near unpinnable even with 4 ceptors, which is wrong afaik. PS, Freighters have to take their chances...under your system too. And no, you don't NEED WCS under my system...they become of one many options. In the end the effect wouldn't be radically different, but I prefer my idea from the mechanics and UI viewpoints. I do like the idea of both target and targeted knowing how long they will be locked down for...it makes randoming somewhat more...pointed :) "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.06 22:43:00 - [6] Either system would need code, especially on the UI side Joerd. I see that as a wash. And the stack would be an variable, like cap, rather than an attribute. Also, what you say about instas is only true if your insta is dead on. Most IME are not. Also you land within a sphere....and gates are not symetrical. Im not THAT attached to the idea..it was a counter to a criticism as I said. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.06 23:29:00 - [7] Uh? I'm not proposing changing module activation. Bear in mind that the current total of scramblers on a ship is ALLREADY tracked, it's not a matter of adding points per cycle. And you couldn't get to negative...if you had WCS running, they'd immediately begin work on any points which hit you, but from their full value. Look... Ship gets hit with 2 points, and sets his 2 WCS on it. It'll take 30 seconds. At 30s, he's at 0 points on himself, and he can warp off immediately. If points had been added by people meanwhile, it'd add to the total needed to reenable warp. If points are removed, it might well instantly come under the total built up and allow immediate reactivation.. But running the WCS with no scramblers on me is just using energy and doing nothing else whatsoever. I really don't know where you got the pre-stablisation idea FROM. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.06 23:36:00 - [8] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 06/04/2006 23:36:41 Yes, it's ALLREADY tracked. So even less code. Sorry, don't see yout point otherwise. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.06 23:42:00 - [9] Explained "stack based" in considerably more detail since you seem to be thinking os something else entirely. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.07 00:12:00 - [10] No, read it again. You can't build anything when the stack is zero height (no scramble on you), and you can't built it beyond the number of scramblers on you either. There would need to be a some sort of maximum decay rate to prevent handoffs between scramblers to hold you in place, but pre-stablising isn't an option. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.07 00:36:00 - [11] ???? I've made it perfectly PLAIN how it would work. You seem to be saying bluntly that it's impossible, which is utter rot. And again, how does this change module code in ANY way? The game allready tracks when scramblers and what value they are on a ship. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.07 02:00:00 - [12] That ain't the hard bit. The hard bit would be tracking scramblers and we can allready DO that. No, I'm not a coder, but I do understand the challenges involved. Implimenting % based scramblers has worse challenges...it ALSO needs a stack, you realise, but is far less transparent in operation. (Dealing with scrambles ending under that would be...messy). "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.07 12:48:00 - [13] What dependencies? The code hooks are there. CCP indicated that the warp capacitor idea was potentially viable (although it turned out to be fatally flawed), so adding another variable can't be too difficult. Etc. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.07 18:39:00 - [14] I'd not be against an industrial-only, lowslot pre-stabiliser. Yes, that'd mean that T2 industrials were VERY hard to hold down. Why is that a problem again? Anyway... Joerd Toastius, the stack would be a variable like capacitor. There's no need for the modules to check anything. Scramblers raise the maximum possible size of the variable. WCS raise the actual value of the variable. Warping is only possible when the variable is at its maximum. This is not the issue you're talking about at all. The entire thing is handed off to a second variable handler...which is perfectly possible according to CCP (in j0's WCS stability thread). "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.07 20:35:00 - [15] I am describing ONE stack-based system. I have never described anything else. And yea, that's one way of describing it. And there are added complexities such as a maximum decay rate and the ability for industrials to create a negative rating...but it'd be fairly easy afaik if CCP commited to it. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.08 00:05:00 - [16] Explained above, but basically there would be a maximum decay rate on the stablisation to prevent a ship from simply cycling its scramblers to allways keep you in place. Say 1/30 per second. Warping resets you to 0. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer

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