I thought this thread was about Merlins and Kestrels? .

I just wanted to throw in here that beam Coercers and rail Cats and Corms do very well against dual TD Condors at least. Their lock range is 60km +. They average between 140 - 200 DPS depending on ammo and shoot every 2 seconds. And they all hit out to at least 50km. Lock and hit before they can.

At ranges that matter (20-30km) A 2x TD Condor performs pretty much the same against those ships as a 1x TD Crow. Those Dessies will die to either of them unless the frigs get caught somehow, then they both die.

Plex warfare. If you're inside the plex with the dessy start at 60km or max lock range. You will lock first and squeeze off 2-3 rounds at the very least before the TD are applied. (at 4 seconds overheated a beam coercer fires a third time after lock. It's less for a Catalyst or Corm) Untanked condors can't take much abuse.

Hell - if the Condor is inside the plex I'll still go in. I'll just switch the sensor boosters to scan res scripts. For the Coercer i'll load imperial standard. 29km optimal with 242 dps or 501 salvos in the EM/Thermal profile. What is the first thing the condor will do when I show on grid? Turn on the MWD.... I've two shot so many condors that way....

There is a reason why people use links

Decreased sig and increased lock range is a really big deal when kiting. Ask anyone who has done any amount of kiting, point range is good.

I don't really feel like arguing with someone about what is important while kiting who hasn't done any kiting..

Open doors right there, "gang links are gud and multiply advantages". How does that in any way invalidate the Condor vs Crow debate?

Seriously, try and come up with a situation where the Crow would win and the Condor would not (again, not counting bubble immunity). You'll be hard pressed to find one.

A crow can beat other lml ships, is virtually immune to drones and can sig tank long range weapons.

A direct fight between them the crow would win, obviously. The Condor is almost as fast so if the crow is pretty safe from drones so is the Condor. Any decent angular versus tachs, 425 or 1400 they have the same incoming dps: (close to) zero, at any useful range. Tachs have the capability of hurting a bit but then getting hit at low transversal will be end of story for either.

Tachs? Honestly?

Where the **** are you realistically going to find a target in pvp using ******* tachs?

Are we talking about awfuls killing bears in high sec? Because i have absolutely no opinion on that.

sig tank long range weapons.

[Kestrel, AB Shield]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II

1MN Afterburner II
Medium Shield Extender II
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I

[Kestrel, Shield MWD]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Light Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Light Missile

Small Auxiliary Thrusters I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I

You did:

So out of all the long range weapons in the game you decided to assume i meant the super long range ones that pretty much don't get used outside of PVE?

Makes sense.

If you're going to be vague and non-descriptive blame yourself if people don't get what you're trying to say.