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Adam Sudbury
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Posted - 2003.09.15 00:39:00 -
[1]
Give mammoths 4 low slots, remove 1 low slot from bestower so it has 3 low slots .... voila, balanced industrial ships.
Adam
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.09.15 05:14:00 -
[2]
OMFG leave the bestower alone. I like bein able to invest about 6 hours of time into training for an indy and having the 2nd best indy in the game.
If this change went into effect, combat / pirate pilots like me would have to invest a lot of training time to bring the amarr level 1 indy up to the same level as the mammoth or another level 3 or 4 indy.
LEAVE THE 'STOWER ALONE!
You are all just jealous 
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.09.15 09:25:00 -
[3]
Problem is when you look at the indis at higher level skill. I have Amarr Industrial 4, which puts it roughly on a parr with other race's indis at whatever their skills are. Sure it has more cargo space, but it's weak in a lot of areas too. You take out that low slot and the Bestower goes from being the best level 1 indi to the worst indi at all levels except for level 1.
Bestower is a 'multi-level' that gets better as you train the skill, the higher the level you are the smaller the difference until you get to level 5 when the IteronV beats it hands down.
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Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.09.15 10:33:00 -
[4]
Which area? The only thing where a bestower is weak vs all other indys expet the Iterion MV is shield...
Oh, yes, and perhaps speed if the minmatar indys get their speed bonus working in 2 years, but they could simply put a nanofiber in their 4th low slot for that - mini indy have only 3 - and be faster and still having mor cargo.
free speech not allowed here |
Zinke
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Posted - 2003.09.15 11:43:00 -
[5]
Thing i would like to see changed is Iteron IV.
Its insane that higher level indy have less shields, less armor, and less power grid than lower level indy (Iteron III).
After Iteron IV is fixed they would need to increase power grid on Iteron V (what good are all those medium slots if you don't have power grid for nothing).
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QBall
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Posted - 2003.09.15 21:19:00 -
[6]
The best way to tell if something is out of balance is by how many people use it after a given amount of time to develop into newer stuff.
So Basically if Bestower is the mostly highly used industrial when in it's similar class statistics would show that it is the best in the eyes of the community.
It works like market share, whoever has the highest integration into the market is the best. So thats about all I have to say.
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"OMG IT'S TRAMMEL 2.0!!!!"
-QBall
And
QQ is QQ |
Doctor One
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Posted - 2003.09.15 21:53:00 -
[7]
 Quote:
Thing i would like to see changed is Iteron IV.
Its insane that higher level indy have less shields, less armor, and less power grid than lower level indy (Iteron III).
After Iteron IV is fixed they would need to increase power grid on Iteron V (what good are all those medium slots if you don't have power grid for nothing).
I have to agree. Sometimes, I think that the Mk3 and Mk4 were switched at birth. The Mk4 and Mk5 really need some developer loving. Is this the kind of thing you could look into and fix for us, TomB?
__________________________________________________
Proud member of Harbinger Heavy Industries
"Dont run... you'll just die tired!" |
Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.09.15 22:20:00 -
[8]
anna, you sure don't have ANY experience with minmatar and caldari indis, minmatar indi handle like a shuttle, caldari indis can defend itself well. bestower has good cargo, gallente best indi IS the best indi in game, so what's the problem?
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Lucas De'Thal
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Posted - 2003.09.16 02:52:00 -
[9]
a 1k npc can take out my bestower shields in less than a minute or 2.
the thing handles like a brick.
my badger mk2. could have like 3, 1k npcs attack u all day and they won't even dent u. the thing handles and turns like a frigate.
Bestower is fine the way it is
______________________________________________
Hellmar > sorry for the attitude, playing a n00b character through the current state just left me a bit bitter
dev chat: Mar 18, 2004
hellmar> "you lot are just so clever you have a good history for out smarting us :-S "
dev chat: Feb 12, 2004 |
Rizzo
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Posted - 2003.09.16 09:59:00 -
[10]
As a manufacturer of all indies except the iteron 4 & 5 I've got to agree with Dragon and Lucas. All the indies have their own strengths. I personaly only ever use the beslower as an afk miner. Sure it's got a huge cargo hold but it goes and handles like a tectonic plate. My mammoth on the other hand is agile enough to fly through the middle of a roid belt at top speed which makes it a far better mining hauler. Sure you can fit an mwd on a beslower but if you're traveling over several jumps my 870m/s mammoth (all standard market kit) will be about as quick as I'll never get low on cap and will turn and enter warp much quicker. In my opinion the mammoth is already a far better ship then the beslower.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.09.16 10:22:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 16/09/2003 10:24:12
Lack of a third low slot on the badger mk2 makes it not so viable. it just doesn't hold nearly enough.
Bestower for all it's suckage, does hold more than any other indy, getting rank5 for an iteron mk5 just isn't realistic unless you are a 100% dedicated industrial pilot, which if you are, I feel sorry for you, heh.
If you're hauling stuff in empire space, just get a bestower, they're by far the best. 10k cargo capacity easy with those suckers, anything else is just a waste.
Oh, and by the way, I think the zippy handling on mimntar and caldari industrials is a bug, and I believe it was fixed on chaos, they now handle like poo too. Not that it was a huge advantage, anyways.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
James Baker
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Posted - 2003.09.16 10:32:00 -
[12]
I can only agree. All indies have their strengths. If you take the most extreme cases, the Beslower provides a huge cargo hold at the expense of speed and agility, making it good for hauling large quantities of cargo through empire space. On the other hand, we have the Badger MK II with it's superior shields, good agility and speed, making it very well suited for hauling in hostile territory while still providing quite good cargo hold. In between we have my personal favorites, the Minmatar indies (Hoarder and it's bigger brother, the Mammoth). Tremendously versatile ships, offering both med and low slots with a good base cargo and base speed. You can go really fast with some cargo space, or you can go pretty fast with very good cargo space. The Iteron line are a mix of all, in good and bad, depending on which Iteron you choose. The Iterons' versatility lies in the fact that there are 5 different of them. Undoubtedly, the Iteron MK V is the best indy of all (not taking into account the month you have to train in order to use it) and excells in all possible ways.
James Baker
PS: Rizzo, you don't make the Wreathe either 
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Quiz
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Posted - 2003.09.16 12:44:00 -
[13]
Really, for all you dedicated haulers out there, I think the gallente iteraton class of haulers could & should be a lot better.
Considering the enormous amount of time you guys put into getting it to level 5, it should be A LOT better than a Bestower than can be trained in like 1/30 if the time...
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Jack's Sparrow
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Posted - 2003.09.16 15:05:00 -
[14]
Quote:
Really, for all you dedicated haulers out there, I think the gallente iteraton class of haulers could & should be a lot better.
Considering the enormous amount of time you guys put into getting it to level 5, it should be A LOT better than a Bestower than can be trained in like 1/30 if the time...
I agree with Quiz, all the Industrials have their advantages(and since they are all summed up above I won't repeat them).
But the Gallente MV just isn't worth the 30 or so days of training, it could use a MAJOR powergrid boost(5 low slots, 5 med slots and I can't even use them all ?!).
If the powergrid would be boosted to say 75 or so it would be WELL worth the month of training.
Keep this thread going people!
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.09.16 16:45:00 -
[15]
Quote:
anna, you sure don't have ANY experience with minmatar and caldari indis, minmatar indi handle like a shuttle, caldari indis can defend itself well. bestower has good cargo, gallente best indi IS the best indi in game, so what's the problem?
FYI, I have flown gallente and caldari indys up to lvl3. Have YOU flown anything else exept a bestower?
So, a badger m3 can have almost 500 shield? It surely helps against NPC rats (meaning: you don't have to spend a few k for armor repais no and then - I wouldn't really call that a big advantage), but against a (single) player pirate in anything above a frig? It buys perhaps 2-3 seconds. Big deal.
That the badgers have the lowest armor of all indys (compared to other indys of the same lvl, of cource) doesn't helps. Biggest armor of all indys exept the iterion m5 has the bestower, btw.
Mini indys handles like a shuttle? So what? Put a nanofiber in the 4th low slot of the bestower and you'll be faster than a mini indy - which have only 3 lows - and more agile. And, yes this includes the speed bonus mini indy (should) get from their skill.
And about the "gallente indy is the best ingame - so what's the problem" - you don't really believe this immensly stupid comment, yourself, do you?
I could as well say "Hey, let's make the megathron a lvl3 frigate." Than we would have a similar relation megathron - armageddon. The armageddon is slightly better, but the megathron needs only a fraction of the training. So, no problem, right?
free speech not allowed here |
Jack's Sparrow
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Posted - 2003.09.16 18:54:00 -
[16]
Ahhh right, I forgot something.
Why the HELL does the Gallente Mark V have 925 CPU ?
The guy(IC) who made the blueprint for most of the Industrials must have been sleeping on the job I guess.
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Ka'loor
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Posted - 2003.09.16 22:42:00 -
[17]
No check EVE-DB, under drones they got a Dronebay listed, uses 40 pwr and 600 cpu, and gives oyu 3500 Dronespace, although youll lose 90% cargo.......I guess well see alot of new players run around with that, if it comes out....
Attack without mercy, until blood is gone, until life is gone, until the light is gone, unto the shadow itself.
Better to die with honor, than to live in shame. |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.09.16 23:15:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Ahhh right, I forgot something.
Why the HELL does the Gallente Mark V have 925 CPU ?
The guy(IC) who made the blueprint for most of the Industrials must have been sleeping on the job I guess.
850 according to eve-i's pretty old stats; however, I don't see why it isn't enough...?
If you think it's too high, check the other indys.
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Dalaq
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Posted - 2003.09.16 23:39:00 -
[19]
Not wanting to state the obvious, but doing it anyway, if you know the Bestower has most cargo, is easiest to train etc.. then use a Bestower and stop complaining
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Adam Sudbury
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Posted - 2003.09.17 02:26:00 -
[20]
Quote:
Not wanting to state the obvious, but doing it anyway, if you know the Bestower has most cargo, is easiest to train etc.. then use a Bestower and stop complaining
Because I hate Amarr **** and I think its the ugliest thing in the world.
Adam
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Lucas De'Thal
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Posted - 2003.09.17 02:59:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Quote:
Not wanting to state the obvious, but doing it anyway, if you know the Bestower has most cargo, is easiest to train etc.. then use a Bestower and stop complaining
Because I hate Amarr **** and I think its the ugliest thing in the world.
Adam
then your entire post is just a whine because you won't use a ship for the way it looks thus nerf it to make your current indy better. uh huh, nice.
sometimes you can't have you cake and eat it too.
______________________________________________
Hellmar > sorry for the attitude, playing a n00b character through the current state just left me a bit bitter
dev chat: Mar 18, 2004
hellmar> "you lot are just so clever you have a good history for out smarting us :-S "
dev chat: Feb 12, 2004 |
Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.09.17 07:55:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Not wanting to state the obvious, but doing it anyway, if you know the Bestower has most cargo, is easiest to train etc.. then use a Bestower and stop complaining
Think about that brilliant idea - let everyone use them same thing. The game would be SOOO much fun then, right? 
free speech not allowed here |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.09.17 09:27:00 -
[23]
I've got 3 bestowers, two badger II's, and two iterons (Mk2&3). Each has it's purpose.
use whatever suits your situation.
And saying you won't use a ship because it doesn't look good? I use a Moa, and that looks like a vacuum cleaner shagging a lawnmower. Maybe we gan get an underbody neon kit, and some flashy door graphics for you..
.
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Sqalevon
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Posted - 2003.09.17 13:39:00 -
[24]
i say fix the iteron mark IV <- needs some PG :)
and give the mammoth a extra low slot and maybe 2 pg more then everything should be cool.
tobad most people are spoiled with the Bestower.
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