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Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
269
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Posted - 2014.02.06 18:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
The crew discussion comes up every so often but this thread is not about whether they exist or not. They do. Confirmed by devs. Let's move on...
My idea is to provide a simple mechanic for making crews apparent within the game without the complication of making them affect the ships. Every ship will gain an attribute indicating normal crew compliment. When a ship is destroyed some percentage of that crew may survive. If the ship goes down fast then fewer will be able to eject. The kill report should contain the number of crew that safely ejected and the number that survived. People can brag about killing thousands of crew if they want. News reports can talk about the horror of millions lost in giant Titan battles. This part is pure fluff.
The second feature will create a new career: search and rescue. In addition to a wreck that can be salvaged and a can that can be looted a rescue beacon will be deployed that represents the crew that survived. This beacon will indicate faction, unless it was a player ship, and will be scannable with probes. It should expire like wrecks do to keep space clear. This will also make it possible to scan down abandoned wrecks left behind by ratters and mission runners.
If a faction beacon is destroyed then the player takes a small hit to that faction and all crew are lost. Mission runners can safely shoot the beacons to keep them from appearing on scans because they already have bad standings to that faction. Player beacons are considered neutral unless the player is a member of a faction militia. Any crew killed will also result in a small standings loss to the Sisters of EVE faction so if you want to be friends with them then do your part and at least don't kill ejected crews.
Beacons can be 'looted' and you will end up with the number of crew in your cargo. All crew are considered neutral to keep the mechanic simple. Crew can be returned to any station or outpost and turned in for a reward and maybe a tiny boost to SOE. That may be abusable but would support the career and ability to gain standings with them.
If crew are ejected from cargo they should be placed in a rescue beacon instead of a container.
If this idea is implemented then the SOE ships should get a specialized cargo hold specific to crew to support the career. -á |
Gigan Amilupar
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
158
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Posted - 2014.02.06 19:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
You know, as far as threads on ship crews go, this is actually a fairly interesting idea. That, and I'm sure some super sadists would love to have crew counts added to their KBs. |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
269
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Posted - 2014.02.06 19:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gigan Amilupar wrote:You know, as far as threads on ship crews go, this is actually a fairly interesting idea. That, and I'm sure some super sadists would love to have crew counts added to their KBs.
Thanks. Here to serve both the mass murderers and the sympathetic types without adding crew slots and maintenance to our ships. -á |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
4822
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Posted - 2014.02.06 19:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
See... this is somethig I can get behind. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1044
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Posted - 2014.02.06 20:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
killed crew count is kewl (and an alternative scoring measure). scanning wrecks is kewl.
does every single wreck created spawn one of these? cause blob wars and missions will mess up probing lots.
any possible way of condensing it to one per grid? maybe the spawning of the rescue-able thingamaning can be delayed somewhat like bounties and spawn on grid some 10-20minutes after the first wreck was created. then all subsequent wrecks created just increase the amount in the thing until/unless its been scooped. in which case, wait another 10-20mins etc etc There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
269
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Posted - 2014.02.06 20:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:killed crew count is kewl (and an alternative scoring measure). scanning wrecks is kewl.
does every single wreck created spawn one of these? cause blob wars and missions will mess up probing lots.
any possible way of condensing it to one per grid? maybe the spawning of the rescue-able thingamaning can be delayed somewhat like bounties and spawn on grid some 10-20minutes after the first wreck was created. then all subsequent wrecks created just increase the amount in the thing until/unless its been scooped. in which case, wait another 10-20mins etc etc
I thought about a delay and that would probably be a good idea to give either the mission runner to finish or the fight to die down. Having all the little escape pods condense onto one beacon would also greatly reduce clutter. The story could be ejected crew protocol is to lay low until the fighting is over and slow boat to one group before lighting the beacon. -á |
Leyete Wulf
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
16
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Posted - 2014.02.06 20:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:
does every single wreck created spawn one of these? cause blob wars and missions will mess up probing lots.
Make it a Search & Rescue Assembly Beacon. The beacon appears on grid on the next tick after at least one ship is destroyed and gathers all the escape pods to it.
Alternatively, make it a deployable structure that can be dropped by anyone and functions like the MTU.
Of course the simplest solution would be to just include them in the wrecks as a lootable item and leave it up the capsuleers who are looting/salvaging as to what to do with them. |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
271
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Posted - 2014.02.06 20:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Leyete Wulf wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:
does every single wreck created spawn one of these? cause blob wars and missions will mess up probing lots.
Make it a Search & Rescue Assembly Beacon. The beacon appears on grid on the next tick after at least one ship is destroyed and gathers all the escape pods to it. Alternatively, make it a deployable structure that can be dropped by anyone and functions like the MTU. Of course the simplest solution would be to just include them in the wrecks as a lootable item and leave it up the capsuleers who are looting/salvaging as to what to do with them.
My initial thought was to make the crew appear as loot but I think the assembly beacon with a little cloud of specks with some blinking lights representing the pods would be a bit more immersive and also make it clear that there is no ownership like you have with wreck loot.
There could be a rescue deployable for larger battlefields but the primary method should be to just fly up to the beacon, right click and rescue.
As far as condensing goes I'm thinking there should be a limit of maybe 10KM so larger battlefields will have multiple beacons. The first wreck pops, some hidden timer starts and finishes and the first ejected crew lights a beacon. As more ships die and their crews eject they'll look for a beacon in the magic range and if they don't find it they light a new beacon. -á |
Endovior
Osmosis Inc Li3 Federation
175
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Posted - 2014.02.06 21:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
The idea as a whole is cool... but I wouldn't want to see entirely cosmetic and non-functional crew, which spawn only in destroyed ships, in the same way that salvage is, and which only function as tokens exchangeable for ISK/LP. At the very least, I'd want crew to actually be a required input sometime prior to undocking, since that'd excuse their presence in ships thereafter.
Keeping with the idea of minimum complexity, the easiest way to implement this would probably be as an ingredient in the production process; you need a certain number of guys to crew a ship... so if you don't already have them on-hand, you can pay some small (but non-zero) fee at any station to hire some. You could also use the same system (call it the 'passenger exchange' or some such) to free slaves, turn criminals in for bounties, and repatriate civilians... while at the same time having the option to enlist any random guys you have floating around to serve aboard ship, a process involving different training/hiring fees depending on the suitability of the people in question for shipboard life (but generally being a bargain in comparison to hiring new crew). Rescued 'veteran' crew would obviously be the most desirable for this purpose (though there's no doubt people out there who will insist on crewing their shiny faction ships with exotic dancers, regardless of the premium involved).
As a sidenote, certain ships should probably have extra cargobays for holding crew. SoE ships are the obvious choice for the serious S&R player... but as an interesting alternative, why not equip ordinary shuttles with a small crew bay, and let them offload passengers directly to other ships with shuttle bays (including SoE ships, of course). That would make search-and-rescue a thing that the very newest of players could reasonably cooperate with experienced veterans on, touring the aftermaths of large fights in unarmed ships for purely humanitarian purposes. |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
271
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 21:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Endovior wrote:The idea as a whole is cool... but I wouldn't want to see entirely cosmetic and non-functional crew, which spawn only in destroyed ships, in the same way that salvage is, and which only function as tokens exchangeable for ISK/LP. At the very least, I'd want crew to actually be a required input sometime prior to undocking, since that'd excuse their presence in ships thereafter.
Keeping with the idea of minimum complexity, the easiest way to implement this would probably be as an ingredient in the production process; you need a certain number of guys to crew a ship... so if you don't already have them on-hand, you can pay some small (but non-zero) fee at any station to hire some. You could also use the same system (call it the 'passenger exchange' or some such) to free slaves, turn criminals in for bounties, and repatriate civilians... while at the same time having the option to enlist any random guys you have floating around to serve aboard ship, a process involving different training/hiring fees depending on the suitability of the people in question for shipboard life (but generally being a bargain in comparison to hiring new crew). Rescued 'veteran' crew would obviously be the most desirable for this purpose (though there's no doubt people out there who will insist on crewing their shiny faction ships with exotic dancers, regardless of the premium involved).
As a sidenote, certain ships should probably have extra cargobays for holding crew. SoE ships are the obvious choice for the serious S&R player... but as an interesting alternative, why not equip ordinary shuttles with a small crew bay, and let them offload passengers directly to other ships with shuttle bays (including SoE ships, of course). That would make search-and-rescue a thing that the very newest of players could reasonably cooperate with experienced veterans on, touring the aftermaths of large fights in unarmed ships for purely humanitarian purposes.
It'd be interesting to require them for unpackaging but so many people dislike change. The people that live in POS would probably rage.
I like the idea of making it a rookie career that is viable in standard low-end ships. -á |
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Endovior
Osmosis Inc Li3 Federation
175
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Posted - 2014.02.06 21:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rees Noturana wrote:It'd be interesting to require them for unpackaging but so many people dislike change. The people that live in POS would probably rage.
I thought about this... but concluded much the same thing. Either you should go all the way and make crew work like modules that you can slot in and out without much trouble... or make the system quiet and unobtrusive, more noticeable to manufacturers than to the end user. Do not force your average players to mess around with having and managing crew if they aren't actually getting a bonus out of it.
Also, and in particular, do not needlessly complicate the logistics of wormhole players. Those guys have it hard enough already. |
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
117
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Posted - 2014.02.06 21:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'm ok with this. I don't believe that crew should ever have an affect on on stats(because they never have before), but based on A Burning Life by Hjalti Danielsson, it would make sense for the Sisters of EVE to provide LP for rescued crew.
That being said, due to the passive nature of this sort of profession, it would make sense to make the income relatively low from a gameplay perspective. (You could probably make an argument that humanitarian efforts don't have the best funding, but that's something I have little knowledge of)
In addition I think it would be better gameplay if players didn't get a system wide beacon/broadcast. Collecting survivors should be as easy as picking up the mail. Plus who doesn't enjoy a good hunt? Search and rescue teams comb the wrecks trying to detect/hunt for survivors, and other people in local try to hunt down the search and rescue team. ^^ |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
273
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 21:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kaerakh wrote:In my experience people in this game aren't averse to change, they're averse to bad ideas.
I agree for the most part but people don't like when additional requirements are added to processes they are already familiar with. Suddenly requiring crews at any stage in using a ship would not be appreciated. My intent was to find a simple and low impact way to bring the concept of crews into the game without adding burden. Adding a new minor career though adds variety and a new stat, even if irrelevant, can add to the RP immersion and be ignored by those that don't care. -á |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
273
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Posted - 2014.02.06 21:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kaerakh wrote: In addition I think it would be better gameplay if players didn't get a system wide beacon/broadcast. Collecting survivors should be as easy as picking up the mail. Plus who doesn't enjoy a good hunt? Search and rescue teams comb the wrecks trying to detect/hunt for survivors, and other people in local try to hunt down the search and rescue team.
I think I wasn't clear about the beacon. I meant for it to be scannable but not a system wide broadcast. Since beacon tends to mean visible throughout the system I should have come up with a different term. Suggestions gratefully accepted.
-á |
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
119
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Posted - 2014.02.06 21:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Rees Noturana wrote:Kaerakh wrote: In addition I think it would be better gameplay if players didn't get a system wide beacon/broadcast. Collecting survivors should be as easy as picking up the mail. Plus who doesn't enjoy a good hunt? Search and rescue teams comb the wrecks trying to detect/hunt for survivors, and other people in local try to hunt down the search and rescue team. I think I wasn't clear about the beacon. I meant for it to be scannable but not a system wide broadcast. Since beacon tends to mean visible throughout the system I should have come up with a different term. Suggestions gratefully accepted.
Fair enough, I only really skimmed your post. ^^' In which case I have little problem with it. Honestly, I'd find a career in search and rescue in EVE to be interesting. Which is why I actually extrapolated some thoughts and ideas. Most of the time I provide sarcastic criticism. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1044
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 22:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kaerakh wrote:
In my experience people in this game aren't averse to change, they're averse to bad ideas.
ive been accused of being averse to change a few times on these forums lol.
as if to confirm the suspicions, id rather not have to require crew for my ships, for the same reason i dnt want them to require fuel, and basic maintenance materials. it'd just be a pain in the arse.
just give me somewhere to hand the crew in like tags or for LP or something. its so easy and simple.
Amarr want slaves Minmatar want freedom fighters Gallaente will buy off u cause they are like that Caldari want workers
and all races will buy crew members to put into new NPC ships. But crew from capsuleer ships are rarer and more expensive cause they is the ****.
omg, that's censored?? lol There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1584
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 22:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
someone posts an idea on the crew every few days. Yours is the first version in a while that isn't completely half-baked, take that as a compliment. There's a lot I like about it. In particular I love crew died as a statistic that reflects the time to kill on the ship. Would be a tough mechanic to hammer out I think, as it should probably only reflect time spent in structure, which is generally and uniformly small. Scanning down an picking up crew sounds like a fun thing. I would suggest that crew escape pods automatically e-warp 1 million kilometers. Making wrecks scannable is a no-no, making the pods scannable within 1m km would be okay. Plus you could drop probes once and get warp-tos on all pods that came from any grid.
Each crew-item should be nonstackable, non marketable, with an expiration timer. Rewards should be modest, with an absolute cap on the standings to be gained per day (or something). NPCs should pay in loyalty points only. This could be one cool way to repair standings perhaps, actually sneaking out to enemy empire or hostile FW or 0.0 to rescue NPC crew pods. Get rid of SOE bonus/penalties, but make them one of the factions that will accept crew from anywhere. This should not be a great way to get money as it will be abused to hell and back.
As for player crews, unless you add them as extra materials to ship BPOs, no one is gonna find a reason to rescue them. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
119
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Posted - 2014.02.06 22:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
Batelle wrote:someone posts an idea on the crew every few days. Yours is the first version in a while that isn't completely half-baked, take that as a compliment. There's a lot I like about it. In particular I love crew died as a statistic that reflects the time to kill on the ship. Would be a tough mechanic to hammer out I think, as it should probably only reflect time spent in structure, which is generally and uniformly small. Scanning down an picking up crew sounds like a fun thing. I would suggest that crew escape pods automatically e-warp 1 million kilometers. Making wrecks scannable is a no-no, making the pods scannable within 1m km would be okay. Plus you could drop probes once and get warp-tos on all pods that came from any grid.
Each crew-item should be nonstackable, non marketable, with an expiration timer. Rewards should be modest, with an absolute cap on the standings to be gained per day (or something). NPCs should pay in loyalty points only. This could be one cool way to repair standings perhaps, actually sneaking out to enemy empire or hostile FW or 0.0 to rescue NPC crew pods. Get rid of SOE bonus/penalties, but make them one of the factions that will accept crew from anywhere. This should not be a great way to get money as it will be abused to hell and back.
As for player crews, unless you add them as extra materials to ship BPOs, no one is gonna find a reason to rescue them.
I don't agree on the per day cap, but everything else is great. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1585
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Posted - 2014.02.06 22:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kaerakh wrote: I don't agree on the per day cap, but everything else is great.
Only because, it would be abused to hell and back. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
119
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Posted - 2014.02.06 22:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Kaerakh wrote: I don't agree on the per day cap, but everything else is great.
Only because, it would be abused to hell and back.
BPOs are unnecessary. Humanitarian aid typically isn't the most profitable venture, and because of how passive(non-confrontational) this is the income shouldn't be great. People who do this are going to be difficult to kill just due to the fact you could just mozy on in with a cov ops ship or a cepter. Just make the pay out exceedingly low or don't even bother moving the escape pods off grid and make them unscannable(or even both). That way there's risk. |
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