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Plex scammers is it legal?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Emma Muutaras State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.02.07 20:13:00 - [1] - Quote you always see in jita local WTB 2 plex for like 1.5 Bil with a pre-made contract there which only gives 1.5 Mil while i personally have never fallen for 1 of these scams i get the feeling a lot of people have and i question its legality. while it may not be against the EULA it is still technically fraud the person is in effect being conned and as plex has real world value i.e there worth $$$ is it in effect become a legal matter? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud lets face it if i brought 6 plex off ccp and cancelled the direct debt before they took the payment im quite sure i would find my account banned. while i agree it would be rather petty for someone to take legal action over a game and lets be honest like it or hate it scamming is the life blood of eve i still question its legality
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 10035	Posted - 2014.02.07 20:21:00 - [2] - Quote Scamming in Eve is not only legal, at times its even encouraged. I know you 'say' you didn't fall for it... but what did you learn? Everything is Jita local is bad. Except for Erotica1. That's totally legit. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Batelle Komm susser Tod 1611	Posted - 2014.02.07 20:21:00 - [3] - Quote This is legit, because PLEX != Money. Back before plex, when people traded GTCs through the forums, scamming was prohibited. The major reason was because CCP's involvement in guaranteeing these transfers were the only way for them to work. Now that plex trading requires no out-of-game trust or information exchange, CCP doesn't need to treat it differently than any other scam. Although I do think they still police out-of-game GTC transfers. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.
Jandice Ymladris Aurora Arcology 488	Posted - 2014.02.07 20:23:00 - [4] - Quote The moment you have the PLEX, CCP delivered what you bought. What you do with it afetrwards is your responsibility. You can sue it for various traning stuff on alts, for a character resculp, or just sell it. If you choose to sell it, it's your responsibility to get a good pirce for it. I fail to see how CCP can be blamed for you not taking responsibility. Shiigeru wreckage site will be salvaged & cleared in a joint Gallente/Caldari operation. Concord organizes trainingbattle at Yulai
Azami Nevinyrall Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 1656	Posted - 2014.02.07 20:23:00 - [5] - Quote If I convinced you out of game to buy PLEX with the intention of scamming you AND it working yes! If it was random with no IRL communication, NO, as the EULA states, all in game items are the sole property of CCP Games. In either case, good luck getting CCP to release the IRL info of a in game character... Stargates aren't located within POS shields. The stargate itself and everyone around it is vulnerable to attack. So why is a Titan located within a POS shield when a Jump Portal is activated? The Titans should not be allowed complete safety!

ISD LackOfFaith ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1146	Posted - 2014.02.07 20:24:00 - [6] - Quote Once the PLEX has been redeemed as an item in-game, it no longer has real world value as per the EULA. Under the "B. Rights to Certain Content" section, you can find: Quote: Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP, including any and all copyrights and intellectual property rights in or to any and all of the same, all of which are hereby expressly reserved. Emphasis mine. In other words, you cannot claim property or interest in any digital game assets, including PLEX as items. Scamming out of game using things like buddy invites, Eve Time Codes, or other game-related things that have real value and are not game items is strictly prohibited. For example, check out the Timecode Bazaar rules. Hope this helps things make sense! Disclaimer: This is but a simple explanation/interpretation by your friendly neighborhood ISD. I am just a volunteer, and have absolutely no authority over creating, interpreting, or enforcing the EULA and ToS. If you would like an official response from a game moderator, please get in touch using a support ticket. ISD LackOfFaith Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISD_LackOfFaith on Twitter

Emma Muutaras State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.02.07 20:27:00 - [7] - Quote sweet i have the info i needed just covering all my base's before i started doing this myself lol
Batelle Komm susser Tod 1611	Posted - 2014.02.07 20:34:00 - [8] - Quote Emma Muutaras wrote: sweet i have the info i needed just covering all my base's before i started doing this myself lol Priceless. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 10041	Posted - 2014.02.07 20:54:00 - [9] - Quote Emma Muutaras wrote: sweet i have the info i needed just covering all my base's before i started doing this myself lol At least you gave people a heads up and allowed them to add you to their block lists. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 10162	Posted - 2014.02.07 20:56:00 - [10] - Quote You can scam for PLEX as long as you don't encourage the mark to buy that PLEX from CCP. Likewise, if you get scammed out of ISK that you made by selling PLEX (or get scammed out of the PLEX itself) and do a chargeback, you are more than likely to be banned. The do-nots in scamming are basically don't impersonate CCP, don't impersonate other players, don't engage in scams involving character trades, don't scam for actual time codes and don't encourage a mark to actually buy PLEX with RL cash. Twitter: @EVEAndski TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á

Caviar Liberta Moira. Villore Accords 425	Posted - 2014.02.07 20:58:00 - [11] - Quote Emma Muutaras wrote: you always see in jita local WTB 2 plex for like 1.5 Bil with a pre-made contract there which only gives 1.5 Mil CCP isn't responsible for someones greed or inability to read.
Reckless Ourtomineng Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 23	Posted - 2014.02.07 20:59:00 - [12] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything blocked /and / or hidden messages stop poasting pls nobody wants to see ur face
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Academy The ROC 2334	Posted - 2014.02.07 21:02:00 - [13] - Quote Reckless Ourtomineng wrote: Unsuccessful At Everything blocked /and / or hidden messages stop poasting pls nobody wants to see ur face Following people around through different threads to harass them is almost definitely against the rules. And you even bothered to do this in a thread a mod had already posted in, to boot. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Vira'li Independant Praetorian Corp 33	Posted - 2014.02.07 21:04:00 - [14] - Quote Reckless Ourtomineng wrote: Unsuccessful At Everything blocked /and / or hidden messages stop poasting pls nobody wants to see ur face I actually find his posts to be some of the more meaningful ones here. Also some of the funniest :) Keep up the good work, Unsuccessful At Everything!
Billy McCandless The McCandless Clan Turing Tested 258	Posted - 2014.02.07 21:07:00 - [15] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Emma Muutaras wrote: sweet i have the info i needed just covering all my base's before i started doing this myself lol At least you gave people a heads up and allowed them to add you to their block lists. i wunder if he kan sea kwoted poasts
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 10044	Posted - 2014.02.07 21:11:00 - [16] - Quote Reckless Ourtomineng wrote: Unsuccessful At Everything blocked /and / or hidden messages stop poasting pls nobody wants to see ur face You say that you have me blocked... but I think we all know better. You love me! You really, really love me! *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Vyl Vit Cambio Enterprises 559	Posted - 2014.02.08 00:38:00 - [17] - Quote CCP, however, can't enact a policy that over rules law. If it's illegal to defraud people out of money on the internet, CCP's policy of encouraging it could even be seen as being complicit - accessories before the fact. IF they take action against the defrauded, making it difficult or impossible to find redress, accessory after the fact. I guess being internet gods can go to your head. Or, maybe Icelandic law doesn't stretch to cover one of their few profitable industries...the EULA isn't a statement of law. It may surrender or acceed to certain claims or rights, but it cannot override LAW, especially criminal statues. Don't cite the EULA. Cite the LAW. Anyone with any sense has already left town.
Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 3040	Posted - 2014.02.08 00:50:00 - [18] - Quote Scams in game are find. I've made a lot doing them myself. However, PLEX is a little more complicated. Scamming PLEX outside of the game may not be, if the GTC scamming rules carry over. It depends. What you described in your post, OP, is perfectly within the rules. cockandballs. Every. Time. EvE Spaceship Guide Works in game only and not updated often
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 8955	Posted - 2014.02.08 00:53:00 - [19] - Quote Vyl Vit wrote: CCP, however, can't enact a policy that over rules law. If it's illegal to defraud people out of money on the internet, CCP's policy of encouraging it could even be seen as being complicit - accessories before the fact. IF they take action against the defrauded, making it difficult or impossible to find redress, accessory after the fact. I guess being internet gods can go to your head. Or, maybe Icelandic law doesn't stretch to cover one of their few profitable industries...the EULA isn't a statement of law. It may surrender or acceed to certain claims or rights, but it cannot override LAW, especially criminal statues. Don't cite the EULA. Cite the LAW. hahahahaha no My EVE Videos 59-15
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19212	Posted - 2014.02.08 00:55:00 - [20] - Quote Vyl Vit wrote: CCP, however, can't enact a policy that over rules law. If it's illegal to defraud people out of money on the internet, CCP's policy of encouraging it could even be seen as being complicit - accessories before the fact. GÇªexcept, of course, that they have no policy of encouraging people to defraud others out of money. If anything, that's exactly what the GTC rules forbid and why they take a dim view on those who trick people into buying PLEX. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.

PotatoOverdose Handsome Millionaire Playboys 1091	Posted - 2014.02.08 01:05:00 - [21] - Quote Emma Muutaras wrote: while i personally have never fallen for 1 of these scams Yeah, sure. That's totally the reason your first and only 2 posts on the eve-o forums are in this thread. Emma Muutaras wrote: i get the feeling a lot of people have Nope. Most anyone that's been playing this game for any amount of time knows not to trust anything in Jita local, most people don't even bother reading it.
Vira'li Independant Praetorian Corp 37	Posted - 2014.02.08 01:33:00 - [22] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Emma Muutaras wrote: while i personally have never fallen for 1 of these scams Yeah, sure. That's totally the reason your first and only 2 posts on the eve-o forums are in this thread. Emma Muutaras wrote: i get the feeling a lot of people have Nope. Most anyone that's been playing this game for any amount of time knows not to trust anything in Jita local, most people don't even bother reading it. This! Jita is worse than the chat in other games.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 15959	Posted - 2014.02.08 01:52:00 - [23] - Quote Jita makes Mos Eisley look like Paris, in spring.
Clementina Coreli Corporation 132	Posted - 2014.02.08 03:30:00 - [24] - Quote Some rules for the future. * If a contract is being advertized in a public chat, it is a scam. Maybe you don't understand how it is a scam, but make no mistake, it is a scam. * If an item that can be sold on the market is being sold via a contract it probably is a scam. Why would the other guy sell via contract when they can sell with less fuss via the market. * If anything doesn't match in a contract (The contract says Charon but you see some carbon, or there is a different price in the description then in the contract or there appears to be some mixup in the you will pay vs. you will get) The contract is a scam and the person who made it is a scammer. People writing contracts do not make mistakes, if you see a mistake it is not in your favor.
Jill Chastot Oath of the Forsaken 208	Posted - 2014.02.08 04:07:00 - [25] - Quote Vyl Vit wrote: CCP, however, can't enact a policy that over rules law. If it's illegal to defraud people out of money on the internet, CCP's policy of encouraging it could even be seen as being complicit - accessories before the fact. IF they take action against the defrauded, making it difficult or impossible to find redress, accessory after the fact. I guess being internet gods can go to your head. Or, maybe Icelandic law doesn't stretch to cover one of their few profitable industries...the EULA isn't a statement of law. It may surrender or acceed to certain claims or rights, but it cannot override LAW, especially criminal statues. Don't cite the EULA. Cite the LAW. You deserve to lose posting rights for this. You bought two plex two plex are not equal to or relative to money, they are not reverse redeemable (pun intended) So hush you silly Internet lawyer wannabe. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unreadOATHS wants you. Come to the WH
Linna Baresi 34	Posted - 2014.02.08 04:24:00 - [26] - Quote Jandice Ymladris wrote: The moment you have the PLEX, CCP delivered what you bought. What you do with it afterwards is your responsibility. You can use it for various training stuff on alts, for a character resculp, or just sell it. If you choose to sell it, it's your responsibility to get a good pirce for it. It's not CCP's job to guide you to the best price offerings for your item. I fail to see how CCP can be blamed for you not taking responsibility. Legally, it's a bit more complicated than that I think. The fact that PLEX are sold for real cash and are sold in game for isk, means there is a cash/isk conversion rate - even if the traffic only goes one way - and consequently that the virtual objects in EVE have real life cash value for their owners. Which means that under existing legal interpretations and jurisprudence, someone going to court over losing such items to in game scams might win the case. And in case of such a win, the company might get claims because of allowing and even promoting scamming, especially if minors were involved. The fact that the company is seated in another country would almost certainly be declared non-relevant, as products have to conform to the laws of the countries in which they are sold (e.g. Microsoft vs EU). And no, EULAs don't mean a thing in court. Apart from the fact they're full of hedging clauses (because some stuff simply isn't legal in every country, for starters), the click-through nature of Eula's means many courts throw them right out as null and void. Member of <Fated> since 2003 fated.europefreeforum.com
eFart Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.02.08 04:30:00 - [27] - Quote plex is cpp borowing monney from players without paying interest but its becoming increasingly difficult for them because plexmarket is getting more saturated
Major 'Revolver' Ocelot GRU Special Forces 216	Posted - 2014.02.08 05:00:00 - [28] - Quote If people took the time to read the terms of the trade carefully then there would be no scams of this sort. I have no sympathy for the impatient and/or illiterate. I love to reload during a battle... There's nothing like the feeling of slamming a long silver missile, into a well greased chamber...
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19213	Posted - 2014.02.08 05:11:00 - [29] - Quote Linna Baresi wrote: Jandice Ymladris wrote: The moment you have the PLEX, CCP delivered what you bought. What you do with it afterwards is your responsibility. You can use it for various training stuff on alts, for a character resculp, or just sell it. If you choose to sell it, it's your responsibility to get a good pirce for it. It's not CCP's job to guide you to the best price offerings for your item. I fail to see how CCP can be blamed for you not taking responsibility. Legally, it's a bit more complicated than that I think. The fact that PLEX are sold for real cash and are sold in game for isk, means there is a cash/isk conversion rate - even if the traffic only goes one way - and consequently that the virtual objects in EVE have real life cash value for their owners. GÇªthat owner being CCP, since you don't own anything in the game. Incidentally, this is why there is no conversion rate: because you don't own anything that can be legally sold. You could try to sell CCP's data, but then you're selling something you don't own, which is generally considered A Bad Idea. So it's not really that complicated. Once your PLEX is in your hangar or redeeming system (depending on method), the delivery is complete and you aren't owed anything else. The service you paid for is rendered in full. What you do with ~~your~~ CCP's in-game item is up to you from that point on GÇö no different than if you obtained a pack of ammo or a ship or any other in-game item. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Sadayiel Inner Conflict 79	Posted - 2014.02.08 05:18:00 - [30] - Quote Clementina wrote: Some rules for the future. * If a contract is being advertized in a public chat, it is a scam. Maybe you don't understand how it is a scam, but make no mistake, it is a scam. * If an item that can be sold on the market is being sold via a contract it probably is a scam. Why would the other guy sell via contract when they can sell with less fuss via the market. * If anything doesn't match in a contract (The contract says Charon but you see some carbon, or there is a different price in the description then in the contract or there appears to be some mixup in the you will pay vs. you will get) The contract is a scam and the person who made it is a scammer. People writing contracts do not make mistakes, if you see a mistake it is not in your favor. point1: some ppl may promote their contracts tru local to make it more visible (legit ones i mean) so they can be picked faster point 2: Some people like to use contracts to avoid the 0.01 undercut war, or just auctioning it to sell it faster without watching market. point 3: 100% accurate altought some ppl make mistakes against them (took advantage of them before)



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