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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.09.15 21:52:00 -
[1]
I've said this before, it's not an exploit but just a poor game mechanic on CCPs part. There really needs to be some sort of invunerbility timer added when you jump into a new system.
Lots of people are 'abusing' this feature now and it's getting kind of out of hand. :)
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Tristan
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Posted - 2003.09.15 22:01:00 -
[2]
NO NO NO NO.
it is already a pain in the ass when people warp to you, and before you can even lock them (with a 0.3 sec lock time i might add) they are already back in warp.
what needs to be done, is sort out the loading and object prediction process. But hey that would be complicated, lets just add more timers and bodge job it eh?
warp scramblers should be able to BREAK someones attempt at warping, the devs even said so in a CSM i think it was, but hey.. oneday maybe they will work properly, hopefully soon.
Heres me, anti pirate, explaining this crap to a pirate... gah.. you of all people shouldnt be asking for this badly thought kneejerk crudola.
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illuminati
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Posted - 2003.09.15 22:03:00 -
[3]
Yeah, needs to be fixed, either no timer, but ship appears after env is loaded or timer, pick one.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.09.15 22:05:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
NO NO NO NO.
it is already a pain in the ass when people warp to you, and before you can even lock them (with a 0.3 sec lock time i might add) they are already back in warp.
what needs to be done, is sort out the loading and object prediction process. But hey that would be complicated, lets just add more timers and bodge job it eh?
warp scramblers should be able to BREAK someones attempt at warping, the devs even said so in a CSM i think it was, but hey.. oneday maybe they will work properly, hopefully soon.
Heres me, anti pirate, explaining this crap to a pirate... gah.. you of all people shouldnt be asking for this badly thought kneejerk crudola.
Current game mechanics and load times make this a neccessary evil of the game unforuntately. If I wanted to be a real ass I'd say that there should be invulnerability timer at all.. that would make my profession much more profitable.. but no, it's a neccessary evil, people should have a chance to get away. (though not via bookmarking right on the jumpgate, which is lame)
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Mark A
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Posted - 2003.09.15 22:07:00 -
[5]
There is already a lock immunity on jump-in, its just relatively short and can be exceeded by lag if you deploy enough ships and drones at the jump-in point. The other feature that makes this a fave tactic atm is that all your modules, including shield hardeners/boosters which stay on during warp, are disabled when you jump making you especially vulnerable.
Yes, it needs fixed, no-one should ever die because they weren't even in control of their ship for half the battle. Also the upcoming warp exclusion zones around gates and (presumably) stations means there will be a way to blockade a gate legitimately without resorting to using lag as a weapon.
Note BTW that you never have invulnerability, only lock immunity. Untargetted weapons and splash damage still apply.
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Taliranowe Sarum
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Posted - 2003.09.15 22:10:00 -
[6]
you dont get that when you jump into a new system. Thats the problem. RUSSIN did that to FA and MASS, and we are now ofcourse doing it to them and all others.
Go with the flow or perish.
I do think this borders close on exploit, but its survival of the fittest. And untill a GM says its an exploit i'll use it.
Read the Rules Of Conduct and Terms Of Usage
"There is TONS of flaming, personal abuse and
other bad behaviour on the In-game board and in In-game world. If everybody would just read the rules and follow them, the EVE world be a much nicer place to be in."
Feel free to copy this Signature. |
dalman
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Posted - 2003.09.15 22:12:00 -
[7]
Edited by: dalman on 15/09/2003 22:43:05
Yup, the GM's can't do anything about it right now.
But they are working on the problem.
*edit*
As I've stated in many threads already, my suggestion is a complete random jump in point. When you jump in you're given a random (X,Y,Z) point where you spawn.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.09.15 22:18:00 -
[8]
I said from day one it was a seriously flawed game mechanic, no matter who it is used on. If this forum had a damn search function you would see that I've always said that there needs to be a longer invulnerability timer when you jump into a new system.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Zagum Darkfin
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Posted - 2003.09.15 22:19:00 -
[9]
Jim, ya an alright guy. 
Yes please add 10 secs to the jump in points or make all jump ins completely random.
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SISQO
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Posted - 2003.09.15 22:20:00 -
[10]
Adding more and more timers is not the solution. Thanks to the 15 second lock timer, there are no bounty hunters as player pirates are veteran combatants, and 15 seconds is more then enough to warp in and out. But whatever..
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Hematic
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Posted - 2003.09.15 22:38:00 -
[11]
Quote:
(though not via bookmarking right on the jumpgate, which is lame)
Actually what's lame is the fact that the designers put the warp-to point of static objects on a handle that sticks out from the center of the object about 15-20k.
I actually wouldn't use bookmarks half as much as I do now if they actually put the friggin' warp-to point at the friggin' gate. That way no matter what, one would warp in 20-21k from center of gate and actually be facing the damn thing.
TomB is full of BS saying that it's not the way it was intended either. I figured out Bookmarking gates my second week of playing the game. So either TomB is lying about 'not intended' or he is one stupid SOB for not seeing it sooner.
I do agree that the jump-in timer should be looked at. I've done some testing and it is VERY off and on. Sometimes the full timer is there and other times one can get an insta-lock.
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Tristan
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Posted - 2003.09.15 22:41:00 -
[12]
jim, read my post again.
there is no need for the timer, IF the environment is loaded properly.
IE: your ship does not appear till you have control of it.
there are many ways to achieve this, in theory (after all, we can but come up with theories, devs have the unenviable job of making solutions.)
such as... player warps to location X. client loads scene, client sends message to server letting server know it has loaded scene.. players object appears to rest of environment.
Or.. player sets destination... client asks server for information about destination en-route, and caches some of it (not all is possible, due to object movement etc) this would help on arrival, however... it would prove more inconsistent, especially for short warps.
another silly thing.. sentry guns cannot be placed within 100km of a station or jumpgate...
where are we supposed to put them then?
A: only EFFECTIVE locations are.. drop zones, and asteroid belts.
can we have more places for combat please, ones where it is more fair, ones where the station or sentry gun isnt likley to ream you because of splash damage, or loss of faction standing because your dumb missile desides its going to fly past the target, then turn round and come back at it (damn thats annoying.. they ALWAYS do that) in doing so, it hits an NPC object while flying past its target. etc etc... i could go on for days listing fubar game features. but hey..
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.15 22:45:00 -
[13]
I'm guessing Sin got ganked by this "tactic" too?
I'd rather there wasn't an invulnerability timer at jump-in. I'd much rather they fixed the lag problem BUT, as a temp. fix, I'd like to see random jump-in points with no invulnerability.
That means if you are willing to spread your forces, there's a good chance to catch someone.
That'd mean tactics would come into play aswell as luck.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.09.15 22:53:00 -
[14]
Quote:
I'm guessing Sin got ganked by this "tactic" too?
I'd rather there wasn't an invulnerability timer at jump-in. I'd much rather they fixed the lag problem BUT, as a temp. fix, I'd like to see random jump-in points with no invulnerability.
That means if you are willing to spread your forces, there's a good chance to catch someone.
That'd mean tactics would come into play aswell as luck.
We've lost a few ships to it, 3 or less though. I imagine as some corps are learning about it, it's going to become the easiest and most efficient way to gank people. :)
Yes, the real problem is just load times and lag.. but we do need a bandaid fix for this put into the next patch.. I suspect the load times would be something much, much harder to fix.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.15 22:56:00 -
[15]
Perhaps a new skill/module could be introduced which, linked with the random jump-in point, increases your chances of appearing in completely unoccupied space - rather than outside a station/jumpgate etc.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
SlightlyMad
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Posted - 2003.09.15 23:20:00 -
[16]
Edited by: SlightlyMad on 15/09/2003 23:23:03
Quote:
what needs to be done, is sort out the loading and object prediction process. But hey that would be complicated, lets just add more timers and bodge job it eh?
word!
I also refrain from "solutions" that avoid the real problem. You don't ever build a stable thing if you keep doing that.
And actually. This tactic has been around for longer than you know. It just got "public" after the FA war
I used it to gank a*****y m3g4 pirate like.. two months ago 
Exploit or not. I dunno. I personally don't care much how low I get (other than using official exploits) when killing pirates. Its not like they are doing fair fights themselves
*
-"You know, we play the "good guys" right? We kill pirates, griefers, retards and general subversive elements in the EVE-Community. To the rest, we are friendly and always prepared to help out. Peo |
Luc Boye
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Posted - 2003.09.15 23:46:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Luc Boye on 15/09/2003 23:50:30
Quote:
... people should have a chance to get away. (though not via bookmarking right on the jumpgate, which is lame)
* looks at his locations list ... hmmm FD-MLJ, coordinate... *
What do you mean Jim? :P
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Biscotto
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Posted - 2003.09.16 00:43:00 -
[18]
Quote:
you dont get that when you jump into a new system. Thats the problem. RUSSIN did that to FA and MASS, and we are now ofcourse doing it to them and all others.
Go with the flow or perish.
I do think this borders close on exploit, but its survival of the fittest. And untill a GM says its an exploit i'll use it.
lol, a person with no honour. I can kill easy because of an error in game. I do not need skill, I need to use game mechanics to pwn u!!!
child go to bed
Carry forth the light of Redemption.
Take it unto the places filled with darkness,
And with it destroy the shadows. |
Master Scy
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Posted - 2003.09.16 00:58:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Quote:
you dont get that when you jump into a new system. Thats the problem. RUSSIN did that to FA and MASS, and we are now ofcourse doing it to them and all others.
Go with the flow or perish.
I do think this borders close on exploit, but its survival of the fittest. And untill a GM says its an exploit i'll use it.
lol, a person with no honour. I can kill easy because of an error in game. I do not need skill, I need to use game mechanics to pwn u!!!
child go to bed
Sigh... Eve is supposed to be about the economy, and we all know honour doesn't bring you profit ;)
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You think Marco Polo said
"Damn Mongolians were camping that cave entry into the next valley the entire day, you can't get friggin anywhere in the world with those damn griefer tribes all over the place" ?
-Indigo Seqi
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.09.16 01:19:00 -
[20]
Edited by: j0sephine on 16/09/2003 01:19:14
"Sigh... Eve is supposed to be about the economy, and we all know honour doesn't bring you profit ;)"
... Having choice between two companies of similar size and profile, one widely known for systematical podding and looting of their would-be customers, and the other known for actually honouring the deals... which one would you rather make business with? :s
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Master Scy
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Posted - 2003.09.16 01:24:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Edited by: j0sephine on 16/09/2003 01:19:14
"Sigh... Eve is supposed to be about the economy, and we all know honour doesn't bring you profit ;)"
... Having choice between two companies of similar size and profile, one widely known for systematical podding and looting of their would-be customers, and the other known for actually honouring the deals... which one would you rather make business with? :s
Lol. I didn't mean it was good business practice to be be intentionally immoral either. What I mean is that by choosing honour you are putting restrictions on yourself that may mean you lose valuable opportunities later.
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You think Marco Polo said
"Damn Mongolians were camping that cave entry into the next valley the entire day, you can't get friggin anywhere in the world with those damn griefer tribes all over the place" ?
-Indigo Seqi
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Arathmon
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Posted - 2003.09.16 01:27:00 -
[22]
Good businessmen are amoral. If you get caught up in what's moral or not, you've already lost the race.
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I used to be in the FA. I like cookies. Eve Radio is teh pwn. |
Master Scy
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Posted - 2003.09.16 01:35:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Good businessmen are amoral. If you get caught up in what's moral or not, you've already lost the race.
Exactly!
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You think Marco Polo said
"Damn Mongolians were camping that cave entry into the next valley the entire day, you can't get friggin anywhere in the world with those damn griefer tribes all over the place" ?
-Indigo Seqi
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