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Deadonstick Puppyseeker
Scarlet...Widow
35
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 14:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
The Premise
So this is arguably one of the strangest things in EVE. *puts on dramatic movie voice*
In a world where computational power reached the point where it can enhance the human mind, one type of state-of-the-art space tech stands alone.
Meet, Joe Sensor Booster, he's an ordinary module living an ordinary life, when suddenly, everything changed. Joe Sensor Booster got fitted next to his arch nemesis Hank Sensor Booster, together they create a stacking penalty, reducing their effectiveness. Luckily, there's a solution.
Enter the Script, a device capable of making Joe an awesome scan resolution booster and making Hank an awesome targeting range booster, thus circumventing the dreaded stacking penalty.
But, there's one problem. For reasons unknown, scripts cannot simply be stored in the ship's computer, nor can they be included as a mode in the actual module, instead, they require a full cubic meter of space USB-stick just to be stored. And to make matters worse, one cannot run the same script on two modules, you require two scripts.
_______________________________________________ Seriously Now
What I'm trying to say here is, scripts don't make sense, never have, never will. It's probably there because ammunition already existed as a gameplay mechanic in EVE, and simply giving a module a mode of operation required making a seperate mechanic for that (similair to the overload button we have now).
As it stands, having scripts as physical objects serves no real purpose, they aren't even remotely expensive, they just generate more clutter in your cargohold.
So personally, I'm for the removal of the script item and rather just giving all script-using modules their respective modes of operation as a function. You can even keep the current interface, right click on a module and select which script you want to load, or if you want to unload it. But instead of the scripts existing as physical items that require a full cubic meter to store, they are simply within the module itsself at all times.
Just a simple adjustment to the game to make all of our lives easier.
_______________________________________________________________________ Fun Fact about Scripts
Actually, fun fact about that space requirement thing of 1m-¦. Your average 3.5 inch hard drive in the current day is 0,000389844 m-¦. Meaning that in one m-¦ you can fit 2565 harddrives. Consumer grade harddrives currently go up to 4TB, meaning this script requires about 10260TB to store, assuming EVE harddrives are as spacious as ours, which they probably are not. Following Moore's Law (which states that the power of computer gear doubles every two years), and that EVE is set "more than 21000 years in the future". Which that instead of 10260TB, it would require 10260 * 2^(21000/2) = 6,7*10^3164 TB of space.
Now ofcourse, that's not nearly true because there's not even enough elementary particles in that one m-¦ of space to even approximate that. But still, even if in the time of EVE they merely one hundred folded our storage capacity, you'll still end up with over a million terrabytes just to store a single targeting script. The hell?!
_____________________________
TL;DR: Scripts are huge, annoying, and generally an outdated gameplay mechanic and they have no real reason that I can see to exist anymore. Despite what you may have heard there's only one rule of EVE:
Never stop learning and realise there's always a lot more to be learned. To this end, seek wisdom in everything. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
212
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 14:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quote:TL;DR: Scripts are huge, annoying, and generally an outdated gameplay mechanic and they have no real reason that I can see to exist anymore.
They don't? As far as I remember they force you to chose between one of the 2 effects the scripted module offers you. That is quite a big balancing and functionality factor in the game. Their cargo requirements are a bit odd, but that's just to limit the amount of scripts you can carry around in the cargo, a thing that you cannot limit otherwise. |
Deadonstick Puppyseeker
Scarlet...Widow
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 14:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Quote:TL;DR: Scripts are huge, annoying, and generally an outdated gameplay mechanic and they have no real reason that I can see to exist anymore. They don't? As far as I remember they force you to chose between one of the 2 effects the scripted module offers you. That is quite a big balancing and functionality factor in the game. Their cargo requirements are a bit odd, but that's just to limit the amount of scripts you can carry around in the cargo, a thing that you cannot limit otherwise.
Like I said in my suggestion, scripts would still exist, you would still be forced to choose, but the physical item won't exist anymore. I love my scripts, just not as items :P
And yeah, I do get why they have a space limitation, but if they are simply pre-included in the module (and unremovable) they still have space limitations (unless Sensor Boosters don't take space anymore these days). Despite what you may have heard there's only one rule of EVE:
Never stop learning and realise there's always a lot more to be learned. To this end, seek wisdom in everything. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
212
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 14:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Made a small addition to my first post, especially targeted to your "physical item" part. |
cynomakinggirl
Just Another Minmatar FW Corp
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
I don't see how can you put different scripts into a module that can only take 1. Stupid idea. Targeting systems require sensors, power (and associated power distribution), antennas, computers and a lot of wiring. You can't simply change a piece of software and have immediately a huge difference. |
Deadonstick Puppyseeker
Scarlet...Widow
37
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
cynomakinggirl wrote:I don't see how can you put different scripts into a module that can only take 1. Stupid idea.
Same way you can put multiple operating systems on your PC and only use one at a time. Despite what you may have heard there's only one rule of EVE:
Never stop learning and realise there's always a lot more to be learned. To this end, seek wisdom in everything. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1687
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Scripts are fine. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
203
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
*Headdesk*
Scripts are fine. You can choose to be really good at 1 or the other, or okay at both. Choice. Cornerstone of Eve. Come on man.
@ Cynogirl: It's like an AM/FM radio. It can listen to two different types of radio by flipping a switch. So instead of receiving and coordinating turret tracking by giving my target additional read outs on what direction and what velocity a ship is moving with my tracking link, I'm providing additional data to improve it's optimal range with very similar data, applied in a slightly different fashion on a needs based basis. If my friendly is at 8k and his optimal is 7 and he's having no problems with tracking, my data is helping push his optimal up a bit by giving him better targeting information. Now if the target is going a bit faster or more sporadically than his single point of reference can adequately account for with turret tracking, my additional data helps him lead his targets better. It's a very similar role, applied in different fashions, which is why scripts exist. The Law is a point of View |
cynomakinggirl
Just Another Minmatar FW Corp
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:*Headdesk*
Scripts are fine. You can choose to be really good at 1 or the other, or okay at both. Choice. Cornerstone of Eve. Come on man.
@ Cynogirl: It's like an AM/FM radio. It can listen to two different types of radio by flipping a switch. So instead of receiving and coordinating turret tracking by giving my target additional read outs on what direction and what velocity a ship is moving with my tracking link, I'm providing additional data to improve it's optimal range with very similar data, applied in a slightly different fashion on a needs based basis. If my friendly is at 8k and his optimal is 7 and he's having no problems with tracking, my data is helping push his optimal up a bit by giving him better targeting information. Now if the target is going a bit faster or more sporadically than his single point of reference can adequately account for with turret tracking, my additional data helps him lead his targets better. It's a very similar role, applied in different fashions, which is why scripts exist.
Sure you can have a radio that can listen to AM and FM, because the frequencys involved are close to eachother. There is actually no way for that radio to pick up something at a much much lower frequency. You'd have to install a much bigger antenna.
That 1m3 of script are actually components that you are swapping in and out of your (imaginary) targeting system. Also there's the problem of jamming targeting systems, which requires your computers to analyse and find the true signal coming from the enemy ship, thus a larger computing power means faster locking time. |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
204
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
cynomakinggirl wrote:Kenrailae wrote:*Headdesk*
Scripts are fine. You can choose to be really good at 1 or the other, or okay at both. Choice. Cornerstone of Eve. Come on man.
@ Cynogirl: It's like an AM/FM radio. It can listen to two different types of radio by flipping a switch. So instead of receiving and coordinating turret tracking by giving my target additional read outs on what direction and what velocity a ship is moving with my tracking link, I'm providing additional data to improve it's optimal range with very similar data, applied in a slightly different fashion on a needs based basis. If my friendly is at 8k and his optimal is 7 and he's having no problems with tracking, my data is helping push his optimal up a bit by giving him better targeting information. Now if the target is going a bit faster or more sporadically than his single point of reference can adequately account for with turret tracking, my additional data helps him lead his targets better. It's a very similar role, applied in different fashions, which is why scripts exist. Sure you can have a radio that can listen to AM and FM, because the frequencys involved are close to eachother. There is actually no way for that radio to pick up something at a much much lower frequency. You'd have to install a much bigger antenna. That 1m3 of script are actually components that you are swapping in and out of your (imaginary) targeting system.
You sure? You sure they aren't just a program?
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Tracking_Speed_Script
*shrug* The Law is a point of View |
|
cynomakinggirl
Just Another Minmatar FW Corp
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:cynomakinggirl wrote:Kenrailae wrote:*Headdesk*
Scripts are fine. You can choose to be really good at 1 or the other, or okay at both. Choice. Cornerstone of Eve. Come on man.
@ Cynogirl: It's like an AM/FM radio. It can listen to two different types of radio by flipping a switch. So instead of receiving and coordinating turret tracking by giving my target additional read outs on what direction and what velocity a ship is moving with my tracking link, I'm providing additional data to improve it's optimal range with very similar data, applied in a slightly different fashion on a needs based basis. If my friendly is at 8k and his optimal is 7 and he's having no problems with tracking, my data is helping push his optimal up a bit by giving him better targeting information. Now if the target is going a bit faster or more sporadically than his single point of reference can adequately account for with turret tracking, my additional data helps him lead his targets better. It's a very similar role, applied in different fashions, which is why scripts exist. Sure you can have a radio that can listen to AM and FM, because the frequencys involved are close to eachother. There is actually no way for that radio to pick up something at a much much lower frequency. You'd have to install a much bigger antenna. That 1m3 of script are actually components that you are swapping in and out of your (imaginary) targeting system. You sure? You sure they aren't just a program? https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Tracking_Speed_Script*shrug*
Yup. That description was written by an ignorant hacker-wannabe. The amount of stupidity put into that description sends chills through my spine. |
stoicfaux
4076
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
The OP was to replace scripts with "modes." As in, right click, select Scan Res or Range mode, versus right click, select load script (assuming you have the script in cargo.)
Scripts are tedious and very annoying when you forget to drag n' drop them to your cargo before undocking.
I could +1 this idea if was in the Features & Ideas sub-forum. Which it will be in 3... 2...
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
351
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Software defined radios are a real thing. So are software defined modems. From a suspension of disbelief standpoint I don't see a problem here.
From a game play perspective they are fine. |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
205
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
cynomakinggirl wrote:Yup. That description was written by an ignorant hacker-wannabe. The amount of stupidity put into that description sends chills through my spine.
Be that as it may, it is what it is. Scripts are certainly NOT on many people's 'top 10 things to fix' list. And work fine. The Law is a point of View |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
213
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:The OP wants to replace scripts with "modes." As in, right click, select Scan Res or Range mode, versus right click, select load script (assuming you have the script in cargo.)
Scripts are tedious and very annoying when you forget to drag n' drop them to your cargo before undocking.
I could +1 this idea if was in the Features & Ideas sub-forum. Which it will be in 3... 2...
edit: Oh hey, it's already in F&I. Situational awareness -1.
The tedious work and possibility to forget them is exactly why they are scripts and not modes. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
351
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:The tedious work and possibility to forget them is exactly why they are scripts and not modes. Optimism and pessimism about CCPs motives in a single sentence. You sir are the perfect EVE player. |
Gimme more Cynos
Du nervst geh sterben
136
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
OH ****, I JUST FORGOT TO PUT THE DARN SCRIPTS INTO MY CARGO!!!!.
CCP, fix this!?
??? |
cynomakinggirl
Just Another Minmatar FW Corp
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
I propose that we make scripts consumable. Every cycle of sensor boosting they consume 1. I also suggest that we introduce faction and pirate versions of scripts, so they can be bought with LP. Not only that, but make them at least take 2m3 of space.
This will improve the sandbox, giving players more options, more ways to fail and generally make everyone's life more difficult. Which is what eve is all about. |
Deadonstick Puppyseeker
Scarlet...Widow
38
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:cynomakinggirl wrote:Yup. That description was written by an ignorant hacker-wannabe. The amount of stupidity put into that description sends chills through my spine. Be that as it may, it is what it is. Scripts are certainly NOT on many people's 'top 10 things to fix' list. And work fine.
Simply because things aren't a matter of life or death does not mean they shouldn't be changed. Yes, scripts work fine, as they will after my proposed change. The difference is that they'll be less fiddly. A minor change to enhance user comfort without wrecking balance is never a bad thing imo.
"Scripts are fine" is not an argument, because better by definition is always better. If things are fine there's no reason to not make them better right? :)
Real life anology: Nobody complains if their boss offers them a pay raise, even if your pay was already fine. Despite what you may have heard there's only one rule of EVE:
Never stop learning and realise there's always a lot more to be learned. To this end, seek wisdom in everything. |
unidenify
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:
Scripts are tedious and very annoying when you forget to drag n' drop them to your cargo before undocking.
could be worst
could forget to drag and drop your ammo to your cargo |
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cynomakinggirl
Just Another Minmatar FW Corp
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 16:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
We must ask ourselves why were scripts introduced in the first place and continue on that road. "The internet is a reliable source of information." - Abraham Lincoln |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
208
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 16:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
Deadonstick Puppyseeker wrote:Kenrailae wrote:cynomakinggirl wrote:Yup. That description was written by an ignorant hacker-wannabe. The amount of stupidity put into that description sends chills through my spine. Be that as it may, it is what it is. Scripts are certainly NOT on many people's 'top 10 things to fix' list. And work fine. Simply because things aren't a matter of life or death does not mean they shouldn't be changed. Yes, scripts work fine, as they will after my proposed change. The difference is that they'll be less fiddly. A minor change to enhance user comfort without wrecking balance is never a bad thing imo. "Scripts are fine" is not an argument, because better by definition is always better. If things are fine there's no reason to not make them better right? :) Real life anology: Nobody complains if their boss offers them a pay raise, even if your pay was already fine.
Real life analogy: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Scripts aren't broke.
I'm generally opposed to ideas that take player choice out of the equation, or reduce it. Easy mode is not Eve. You don't fire up excel to write a word document, and you don't fire up word to put your finances in order. You open two separate programs(Scripts) on the same machine(module).
EDIT: From a game play/balance choice perspective, the scripts are necessary to enforce that choice. The Law is a point of View |
Deadonstick Puppyseeker
Scarlet...Widow
40
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 16:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:
Real life analogy: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Scripts aren't broke.
I'm generally opposed to ideas that take player choice out of the equation, or reduce it. Easy mode is not Eve. You don't fire up excel to write a word document, and you don't fire up word to put your finances in order. You open two separate programs(Scripts) on the same machine(module).
EDIT: From a game play/balance choice perspective, the scripts are necessary to enforce that choice.
But, if you've read the post, surely you would have seen that, indeed I'm not removing any player choice. I am just removing scripts as a physical item. You still have all the choices, the interface isn't even different. Although instead of right click -> Load Targeting Range Script, it loads it from your ships computer or some ****, rather than from your cargohold.
Player choice remains.
Also as far as if it ain't broke, don't fix it goes. Real life doesn't work that way, nor has it ever. Bronze wasn't a broken metal, yet we did enter the iron age at some point. All of human history has been about improving what isn't broke, but can be done better.
Despite what you may have heard there's only one rule of EVE:
Never stop learning and realise there's always a lot more to be learned. To this end, seek wisdom in everything. |
cynomakinggirl
Just Another Minmatar FW Corp
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 16:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Deadonstick Puppyseeker wrote:Kenrailae wrote:
Real life analogy: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Scripts aren't broke.
I'm generally opposed to ideas that take player choice out of the equation, or reduce it. Easy mode is not Eve. You don't fire up excel to write a word document, and you don't fire up word to put your finances in order. You open two separate programs(Scripts) on the same machine(module).
EDIT: From a game play/balance choice perspective, the scripts are necessary to enforce that choice.
But, if you've read the post, surely you would have seen that, indeed I'm not removing any player choice. I am just removing scripts as a physical item. You still have all the choices, the interface isn't even different. Although instead of right click -> Load Targeting Range Script, it loads it from your ships computer or some ****, rather than from your cargohold. Player choice remains. Also as far as if it ain't broke, don't fix it goes. Real life doesn't work that way, nor has it ever. Bronze wasn't a broken metal, yet we did enter the iron age at some point. All of human history has been about improving what isn't broke, but can be done better.
Most advancements are done through experimentation and many bad decisions. You want to experiment, fine. But not when our gameplay is at stake.
"The internet is a reliable source of information." - Abraham Lincoln |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
209
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 16:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Deadonstick Puppyseeker wrote:Kenrailae wrote:
Real life analogy: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Scripts aren't broke.
I'm generally opposed to ideas that take player choice out of the equation, or reduce it. Easy mode is not Eve. You don't fire up excel to write a word document, and you don't fire up word to put your finances in order. You open two separate programs(Scripts) on the same machine(module).
EDIT: From a game play/balance choice perspective, the scripts are necessary to enforce that choice.
But, if you've read the post, surely you would have seen that, indeed I'm not removing any player choice. I am just removing scripts as a physical item. You still have all the choices, the interface isn't even different. Although instead of right click -> Load Targeting Range Script, it loads it from your ships computer or some ****, rather than from your cargohold. Player choice remains. Also as far as if it ain't broke, don't fix it goes. Real life doesn't work that way, nor has it ever. Bronze wasn't a broken metal, yet we did enter the iron age at some point. All of human history has been about improving what isn't broke, but can be done better.
You're still as obtuse and entertaining as ever.
Putting ammo in your ship is a choice. As is leaving it out. Bringing the script at all is a choice. As is not. Simpler isn't always better. And when Bronze and Iron clashed... Yup, P sure bronze got purty borked. Just like when gunpowder met plate armor. Borked it too.
Weapons in Eve has multiple different ammo types for the choice of choosing which one works best. Cap boosters even have different charge sizes, for choosing which works best. Scripts and Ewar mods are no different.
Because you're not thinking about all the choice removed does not mean I have not read your post, and does not mean you are not removing choice. The Law is a point of View |
Deadonstick Puppyseeker
Scarlet...Widow
40
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 16:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote: You're still as obtuse and entertaining as ever.
Putting ammo in your ship is a choice. As is leaving it out. Bringing the script at all is a choice. As is not. Simpler isn't always better. And when Bronze and Iron clashed... Yup, P sure bronze got purty borked. Just like when gunpowder met plate armor. Borked it too.
Weapons in Eve have* multiple different ammo types for the choice of choosing which one works best. Cap boosters even have different charge sizes, for choosing which works best. Scripts and Ewar mods are no different.
Because you're not thinking about all the choice removed does not mean I have not read your post, and does not mean you are not removing choice.
*Correcting Verb tense
Well yes, not taking scripts is a choice, but not an important one. But in the case of scripts, there are really only three choices, the ammo is not needed for game balance such as with cap boosters (where being able to only take a limited amount and needing to pay for them is crucial).
Now I don't really see anyway this is a bad idea. Not using scripts is still a choice, only not taking them isn't because they are part of the module. This doesn't break gameplay, it doesn't break anything, it simply makes more sense and is less fiddly.
In this case it's not really a matter of experimentation, the results are quite easy to rationalize. No one will be worse off, I don't think riots will emerge because people miss this inconvenience.
Despite what you may have heard there's only one rule of EVE:
Never stop learning and realise there's always a lot more to be learned. To this end, seek wisdom in everything. |
cynomakinggirl
Just Another Minmatar FW Corp
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 16:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Deadonstick Puppyseeker wrote: the ammo is not needed for game balance such as with cap boosters (where being able to only take a limited amount and needing to pay for them is crucial).
This basically sums up your non-knowledge of the game. "The internet is a reliable source of information." - Abraham Lincoln |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
212
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 16:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
Deadonstick Puppyseeker wrote:Well yes, not taking scripts is a choice, but not an important one. But in the case of scripts, there are really only three choices, the ammo is not needed for game balance such as with cap boosters (where being able to only take a limited amount and needing to pay for them is crucial).
Now I don't really see anyway this is a bad idea. Not using scripts is still a choice, only not taking them isn't because they are part of the module. This doesn't break gameplay, it doesn't break anything, it simply makes more sense and is less fiddly.
In this case it's not really a matter of experimentation, the results are quite easy to rationalize. No one will be worse off, I don't think riots will emerge because people miss this inconvenience.
Again, you're assuming.
Every person in Eve has the chance to be better off with the status quo. Your opponent may simply forget to bring scripts, which can have a HUGE impact on a fight. Making it so they always have their scripts no matter what is not a good solution. Now if you wanted to advocate expanding the script choices, sure. I'd like to see some ideas on that, could be fun. But what you're suggesting is that anyone fitting an Ewar-type mod that requires a script will never forget his ammo. How many fights, I wonder, have been decided solely on who brought what ammo? I'd wager quite a few. This is part of fitting in Eve. You can save scripts to fits so they will automatically go to your cargo when you fit. There isn't a reason to make this change. The simple choice of bringing a script or not is a game balance decision. It's like warp scramblers and warp disruptors. One will shut your MWD down, but has a really short range. The other has twice the range, but won't do anything but keep you on field. It's choices. The Law is a point of View |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1070
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 16:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
unidenify wrote:stoicfaux wrote:
Scripts are tedious and very annoying when you forget to drag n' drop them to your cargo before undocking.
could be worst could forget to drag and drop your ammo to your cargo
could be worse, you could forget to drag and drop the exotic dancers into ur cargo EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
212
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 16:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:unidenify wrote:stoicfaux wrote:
Scripts are tedious and very annoying when you forget to drag n' drop them to your cargo before undocking.
could be worst could forget to drag and drop your ammo to your cargo could be worse, you could forget to drag and drop the exotic dancers into ur cargo
D: DO NOT jest of Such things!!! :( :( :( The Law is a point of View |
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cynomakinggirl
Just Another Minmatar FW Corp
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 16:50:00 -
[31] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:Deadonstick Puppyseeker wrote:Well yes, not taking scripts is a choice, but not an important one. But in the case of scripts, there are really only three choices, the ammo is not needed for game balance such as with cap boosters (where being able to only take a limited amount and needing to pay for them is crucial).
Now I don't really see anyway this is a bad idea. Not using scripts is still a choice, only not taking them isn't because they are part of the module. This doesn't break gameplay, it doesn't break anything, it simply makes more sense and is less fiddly.
In this case it's not really a matter of experimentation, the results are quite easy to rationalize. No one will be worse off, I don't think riots will emerge because people miss this inconvenience.
Again, you're assuming. Every person in Eve has the chance to be better off with the status quo. Your opponent may simply forget to bring scripts, which can have a HUGE impact on a fight. Making it so they always have their scripts no matter what is not a good solution. Now if you wanted to advocate expanding the script choices, sure. I'd like to see some ideas on that, could be fun. But what you're suggesting is that anyone fitting an Ewar-type mod that requires a script will never forget his ammo. How many fights, I wonder, have been decided solely on who brought what ammo? I'd wager quite a few. This is part of fitting in Eve. You can save scripts to fits so they will automatically go to your cargo when you fit. There isn't a reason to make this change. The simple choice of bringing a script or not is a game balance decision. It's like warp scramblers and warp disruptors. One will shut your MWD down, but has a really short range. The other has twice the range, but won't do anything but keep you on field. It's choices.
So far this is the best answer to the failed attempt at changing a working game mechanic. All the proposals were thoroughly and exhaustively debunked, while the OP failed to mention even one single good reason. We can now move this thread to the graveyard and focus our energies on more important matter. "The internet is a reliable source of information." - Abraham Lincoln |
Leoric Firesword
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 18:04:00 -
[32] - Quote
so wait, you want CCP to take dev time to change scripts with take up an amazing 1 m3 of cargo space on your COMBAT ship, the end outcome of which is that you'll save how much cargo space on your COMBAT ship?
really?
you'll still have to right click and change what you're using. so yeah. |
DSpite Culhach
278
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 03:42:00 -
[33] - Quote
I am aware that loading up a ship fitting from the "saved" list now also equips ammo into cargo. Do scripts get loaded as well?
I suddenly woke up thinking I had a nightmare, then remembered I can't even fly Amarr Battleships. I add bits to this when I'm bored https://www.dropbox.com/s/foijsawsqolarom/EVE_Online.html |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
231
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 04:29:00 -
[34] - Quote
DSpite Culhach wrote:I am aware that loading up a ship fitting from the "saved" list now also equips ammo into cargo. Do scripts get loaded as well?
If they are saved to the fit, yes they should.
The Law is a point of View |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
151
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 11:11:00 -
[35] - Quote
Scripts are badly named. The name script suggests a software component that should logically be part of the system and applied through digital means rathers than physically humping from the cargo bay to the module.
It is rather immersion breaking.
A better choice of name is all that is needed, one that suggest a hardware component not a software one.
Script x
Adaptor ? Enhancer ? Motherboard ? DaughterBoard ? Dongle ? Doohicky ? Core ? Co-Processor ? PPU ( Parallel processing unit ) ?
|
Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
57
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 11:25:00 -
[36] - Quote
Have you ever written a script that improves the effective range that you can fire your lasers from your spaceship at other spaceships? How do you know how little space they require? For all you know they require a dozen motorcycle sized hot-swap harddrives with a special quantum computer in them that allows for the complex calculations to be done simultaneously for all turrets. Add some text on their info pages to make clear how complex they are, and then we don't have to change anything. Nice and cheap. Spend my subscription money making actual new content. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1709
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 11:55:00 -
[37] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:*Headdesk*
Scripts are fine. You can choose to be really good at 1 or the other, or okay at both. Choice. Cornerstone of Eve. Come on man.
@ Cynogirl: It's like an AM/FM radio. It can listen to two different types of radio by flipping a switch. So instead of receiving and coordinating turret tracking by giving my target additional read outs on what direction and what velocity a ship is moving with my tracking link, I'm providing additional data to improve it's optimal range with very similar data, applied in a slightly different fashion on a needs based basis. If my friendly is at 8k and his optimal is 7 and he's having no problems with tracking, my data is helping push his optimal up a bit by giving him better targeting information. Now if the target is going a bit faster or more sporadically than his single point of reference can adequately account for with turret tracking, my additional data helps him lead his targets better. It's a very similar role, applied in different fashions, which is why scripts exist. LMAO.
"X is fine" - is a standard response to anyone criticizing or suggesting an improvement to EVE. This week I've heard Sov is fine, timers are fine, battleships are fine, suicide ganking is fine, suicide bombers are fine... wait ... maybe not the last one. Now this idea, which is fine :) , gets the scripts are fine argument even though OP is 100% correct, more streamlined and less micromanaging of scripts would be ... fine. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
234
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 12:06:00 -
[38] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Kenrailae wrote:*Headdesk*
Scripts are fine. You can choose to be really good at 1 or the other, or okay at both. Choice. Cornerstone of Eve. Come on man.
@ Cynogirl: It's like an AM/FM radio. It can listen to two different types of radio by flipping a switch. So instead of receiving and coordinating turret tracking by giving my target additional read outs on what direction and what velocity a ship is moving with my tracking link, I'm providing additional data to improve it's optimal range with very similar data, applied in a slightly different fashion on a needs based basis. If my friendly is at 8k and his optimal is 7 and he's having no problems with tracking, my data is helping push his optimal up a bit by giving him better targeting information. Now if the target is going a bit faster or more sporadically than his single point of reference can adequately account for with turret tracking, my additional data helps him lead his targets better. It's a very similar role, applied in different fashions, which is why scripts exist. LMAO. "X is fine" - is a standard response to anyone criticizing or suggesting an improvement to EVE. This week I've heard Sov is fine, timers are fine, battleships are fine, suicide ganking is fine, suicide bombers are fine... wait ... maybe not the last one. Now this idea, which is fine :) , gets the scripts are fine argument even though OP is 100% correct, more streamlined and less micromanaging of scripts would be ... fine.
I apologize that you forgot your scripts. Unlike Sov and timers which are silly broken, there is nothing wrong with scripts. They do not need to be 'automatically part of modules' as the OP suggests. They need to, like ammo, be something you have to bring, to have the option to choose.
The Law is a point of View |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1709
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 12:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Kenrailae wrote:*Headdesk*
Scripts are fine. You can choose to be really good at 1 or the other, or okay at both. Choice. Cornerstone of Eve. Come on man.
@ Cynogirl: It's like an AM/FM radio. It can listen to two different types of radio by flipping a switch. So instead of receiving and coordinating turret tracking by giving my target additional read outs on what direction and what velocity a ship is moving with my tracking link, I'm providing additional data to improve it's optimal range with very similar data, applied in a slightly different fashion on a needs based basis. If my friendly is at 8k and his optimal is 7 and he's having no problems with tracking, my data is helping push his optimal up a bit by giving him better targeting information. Now if the target is going a bit faster or more sporadically than his single point of reference can adequately account for with turret tracking, my additional data helps him lead his targets better. It's a very similar role, applied in different fashions, which is why scripts exist. LMAO. "X is fine" - is a standard response to anyone criticizing or suggesting an improvement to EVE. This week I've heard Sov is fine, timers are fine, battleships are fine, suicide ganking is fine, suicide bombers are fine... wait ... maybe not the last one. Now this idea, which is fine :) , gets the scripts are fine argument even though OP is 100% correct, more streamlined and less micromanaging of scripts would be ... fine. I apologize that you forgot your scripts. Unlike Sov and timers which are silly broken, there is nothing wrong with scripts. They do not need to be 'automatically part of modules' as the OP suggests. They need to, like ammo, be something you have to bring, to have the option to choose. Because they're 'fine' right? Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Johnny Aideron
Order of Rouvenor
49
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 12:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
Since scripts are so cheap, and not consumable, I agree with the OP. There's no reason why you would never choose to bring the scripts so there's no interesting choices to make. |
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SIrera Artrald
Titans Rising
20
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 14:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
If scrips are such complicated hardware that couldn't possibly be built in to the system already, then why do they take no time to switch between or load? as they are now was probably only implemented in this way because the code for ammo was already in place and was the simplest way to add them.
I agree with the OP this is and outdated function and I see no "real" reason to not implement this simple change. It would probably be a simple thing for CCP to change this to a mode function pre-built in to the modules. |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
102
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 16:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
Apart from forgetting scripts, what if CCP decide to add a bunch of new scripts to already existing modules? |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1840
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 16:49:00 -
[43] - Quote
are we really arguing over realism in a space game where PLANETS DON'T MOVE?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
SIrera Artrald
Titans Rising
20
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 17:18:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Apart from forgetting scripts, what if CCP decide to add a bunch of new scripts to already existing modules?
I think the idea of scrips for almost every module would add a lot of variety to the game and to fitting options |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
462
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 17:20:00 -
[45] - Quote
cynomakinggirl wrote:I don't see how can you put different scripts into a module that can only take 1. Stupid idea. Targeting systems require sensors, power (and associated power distribution), antennas and their steering mechanisms, computers and a lot of wiring. You can't simply change a piece of software and have immediately a huge difference. easy, a sebo would sports 3 modes, equivalent to todays no script / scan / targeting only one used at a time, require the module to be off to switch mode, effects remain the same, in fact, you just get rid of the physical scripts...... |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
102
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 18:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
SIrera Artrald wrote:Ashlar Vellum wrote:Apart from forgetting scripts, what if CCP decide to add a bunch of new scripts to already existing modules? I think the idea of scrips for almost every module would add a lot of variety to the game and to fitting options Ok, then imagine that there is as much script types for one module as there is ammo types for a gun and all of those scripts are "simply within the module itsself at all times" like OP suggested.
Question is what problem are you trying to solve?
- Is it just UI based problem (as I don't want to see one more item when I open my cargo hold)?
- Or are you trying to fix a human factor (forgot your scripts or took the wrong script etc.)?
Fixing first one is nice, but imho would be better if CCP just added 2-3 load slots to script using modules.
Fixing second is not needed in my opinion, 'cause making choices for players even if their choices were bad in the first place are never a good idea. |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
237
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 20:31:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Fixing second is not needed in my opinion, 'cause making choices for players even if their choices were bad in the first place are never a good idea.
This.
This, this, this. The Law is a point of View |
SIrera Artrald
Titans Rising
20
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 21:12:00 -
[48] - Quote
It's about simplifying a mechanic that doesn't need to be complicated it would be simple and it would streamline fitting ships and remove some useless junk from the game |
Xindi Kraid
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
738
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 17:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
cynomakinggirl wrote:I don't see how can you put different scripts into a module that can only take 1. Stupid idea. Targeting systems require sensors, power (and associated power distribution), antennas and their steering mechanisms, computers and a lot of wiring. You can't simply change a piece of software and have immediately a huge difference. That's not true. FIrst of all antennas haven't necessarily required steering mechanisms in years. Phased arrays are steerable just through changing the electrical signal alone, and there exists an example of software defined capabilities already: Fifth generation fighter aircraft are generally heavily dependent on software for their sensor capabilities, supposedly the radar in the F-35 will be done mostly in software. Some physical components like the sensing apparatus are still required, but many of the other components are replaced with digital to analog converters and analog to digital converters so software can control stuff like frequency modulation. |
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