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Railguns: 350mm vs. 425mm, 200mm vs. 250mm

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Ortu Konsinni	Posted - 2006.04.09 11:25:00 - [1] I tend to use 125mm rails over 150mm for my small ships just because they're easier to fit, unless I feel I need the extra range. Now for some obscure reason I've never applied that logic to 200mm (medium) and 350mm (large) rails, but it hit me recently that they may be just as effective as their larger-caliber counterparts and easier to fit, if I don't need the extra range. I recently tried 200mm rails on my Eagle and 350mm on a theoretical Megathron setup and came up pretty satisfied with the apparent results, but would like to hear opinions on this. Note this is only a damage + fitting constraints question, and it assumes that I don't need the extra range, because if and when I do, obviously I will fit the best guns. So what's your take on 200mm and 350mm rails? In other words, are the larger guns (250mm and 425mm) really worth fitting over their smaller counterparts (200mm and 350mm) if you don't need the extra range, or is it comparable to 125mm vs. 150mm? I see the damage mods for 125mm, 200mm and 350mm, and 150mm, 250mm and 425mm are the same, therefore logic would dictate that the answer to my above question is "no", but I'd love to hear other people's opinions since I don't actually use large hybrids (yet). --- High quality pics of ALL EVE ships!
Lorette	Posted - 2006.04.09 12:10:00 - [2] Edited by: Lorette on 09/04/2006 12:13:48 I find the major point is the tracking speeds, theres really no reason to use a 200mm over a 250mm if you can fit the bigger, since you pretty much have no chance of hitting in close unless you web anyway. With frigs and 125/150's its different, the 125mm's allow a) more to fit on your frig and b) decent tracking ability even without webbing your target. Im still using 250mm's on my BS so i have yet to test out the large hybrids but im sure its similar to the 200/250's. Oh i also forgot to mention that duals are completely useless, HUGE sig radius increase for slightly more dmg is pretty stupid really.
Vexoth	Posted - 2006.04.09 12:12:00 - [3] The Megathron has a tracking bonus but no range bonus so 425mm for the Megathron. the Eagle's relevant bonuses only apply to damage and not tracking. Comparing tracking speeds of different Large Hybrid Rails: 425mm railgun ii tracking speed 0.009625 rad/sec 350mm railgun ii tracking speed 0.01167 rad/sec dual 250mm railgun ii tracking speed 0.0175 rad/sec The tracking speed difference won't help you hit smaller orbiting ships. But they will help you land better hits against larger ships.
Icek Villawrov	Posted - 2006.04.09 16:31:00 - [4] i use 200mm's. They are a heck of a lot easier to fit than 250mm. My signature has the anti-mod defense of insignificance!
Clara Vassus	Posted - 2006.04.09 21:24:00 - [5] The 250s leave me with a decidely 'meh' impression from my use on them. I like the 200mm alot more. I think with their suprior tracking and ROF, they are a suprior gun - or at least all of my usage of both the 250s and 200s have lead me to beleive this. I much perfer the 150s over the 125s on frigates though. I seem to be part of the minority that feels that way, though. I rarely pilot battleships, so I dont really have much of any opinion on the 350s vs the 425s... although I've been hearing some good things about the 250 daulies lately.
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.04.09 21:34:00 - [6] Originally by: Lorette Im still using 250mm's on my BS stay in your cruiser until you can fit the right guns. at least you get bonuses Win a Cerberus!! sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
Sweetnes	Posted - 2006.04.09 22:12:00 - [7] The larger guns in each category have longer range, worse tracking and about 3-5% more DoT. Bear in mind that the longer range translates into even more damage since you can use more damaging ammo farther out. Generally, if you need to use grid or cpu enhancers to fit your setup, its better to switch to smaller guns and use a TrackingEnhancerII or DamageModII for the lowslot instead.
Cmdr Patrick	Posted - 2006.04.09 22:38:00 - [8] 350 II's only do ike 3-4% less dps than 425 t2's but the range differance is HUUUUUUGGGEEE, so over all for fleets your better just sticking with the 425's and getting to use higher dmg ammo imo.
Zysco	Posted - 2006.04.09 23:27:00 - [9] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Lorette Im still using 250mm's on my BS stay in your cruiser until you can fit the right guns. at least you get bonuses I use 250 IIs on my domi Originally by: Ginger Magician I have the fingerspeed of a teenager the brains of a rocket scientist and the tactical nous of a 5 star general. Why do u think I'm so freaking good?
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2006.04.10 00:03:00 - [10] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Lorette Im still using 250mm's on my BS stay in your cruiser until you can fit the right guns. at least you get bonuses Well, I use 12 250mms on my Dominix. 200mm rails are good for the Deimos and Thorax if you want to run a rail setup (it was really annoying back before the 350s and 200s came out). Some common ratting setups on Megathrons (before missile and rat changes) were typically 6x 350mm rails and 2x siege launchers (those are the insta pop npc frigate torp launchers). I haven't used a 350mm railgun for quite a while though. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson

Halapino	Posted - 2006.04.10 01:23:00 - [11] Originally by: HllaxiuWell, I use 12 250mms on my Dominix. [:p WTB 12 hi-slot Dominix!!!
Bellum Eternus	Posted - 2006.04.10 01:31:00 - [12] The main reason medium and large rails don't work the same as 125mm/150mm comparison is because of the range differences and the fitting differences of larger ships vs. frigs. At typical effective real world frig ranges, 125mms suffer almost no disadvantage compared to a 150mm. Unless you're trying to maximize your range (harpy sniper setup) the 150s don't offer that much of a performance advantage. Everything is the opposite when comparing 200s/250s and 350s/425s.
FFGR	Posted - 2006.04.10 03:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Halapino Edited by: Halapino on 10/04/2006 01:24:19 Originally by: Hllaxiu Well, I use 12 250mms on my Dominix. WTB 12 hi-slot Dominix!!! Personally I fill my mid's and lo's and fit highest I can in top. Usually don't have problems except with cruisers. hint : You can mount 12 (24) 250mm rails on the domi with just 6 highslots _____________________________ siggy v. 0.1, bare with my Photoshop n00bness
Makaera Koshito	Posted - 2006.04.10 05:27:00 - [14] Edited by: Makaera Ko**o on 10/04/2006 05:27:48 Well, my .02 ISK, even though I can't yet fly BS or HACs, so I realize I'm outclassed and outskilled by everyone here... I don't often use the Moa, but I have taken it for a spin here and there on a mission now and again. I found that I can hit rogue drones about 50% of the time with 200mm at close range without a webber. I can't even hit drone frigs with 250mm with a webber and tracking mod, which may show you how low my gunnery skills are compared to the rest of the folks in this thread.
Crellion	Posted - 2006.04.10 06:01:00 - [15] Originally by: FFGR Originally by: Halapino Edited by: Halapino on 10/04/2006 01:24:19 Originally by: Hllaxiu Well, I use 12 250mms on my Dominix. WTB 12 hi-slot Dominix!!! Personally I fill my mid's and lo's and fit highest I can in top. Usually don't have problems except with cruisers. hint : You can mount 12 (24) 250mm rails on the domi with just 6 highslots If dual 250s were not in fact 1.002x250s instead of 2x250s I might entertain your argument. As it is you are probably better off with 6 250s rather than 6 dual 250s tbh unless you have a written contract that you will absolutely be going on a 1v1 with a close range but slow moving BS like a Raven and absolutely nothing else.
Gierling	Posted - 2006.04.10 06:44:00 - [16] The best suggestion I have ever heard was to reduce the signature resolution of the smaller sized guns. This would give them a defined niche and benefit that outwieghs thier hefty loss of DPS and range. Say using rails as an example, currently its as such. 425: 400 350: 400 d250: 400 250: 125 200: 125 d150: 125 150: 40 125: 40 75: 40 This is silly, no other trait is uniform amongst all the guns of a size class. lets look at it with the following (rough) values. Remember Im just fleshing out the concept hte actual values may or may not work. 425: 400 350: 350 d250: 300 250: 125 200: 100 d150: 75 150: 40 125: 30 75: 20 PRoposal to fix blobbing and make Charisma useful.
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.10 07:04:00 - [17] Gierling, it's only a modifier on tracking. Things doesn't need, and shouldn't be, symetrical to be even. Myself, I use 125mm on my Taranis because it's a good combination of damage, range, fitting, and tracking. 200mm on my Deimos because I can't fit 250mms and because they do more damage than dual 150mm. Well, actually I can't fit a full rack of 200mms either, but most of the guns are 200mm. I use 425mm on Megathrons because they fit well, do lots of damage, and because range is much more important than tracking. 350mm might be fit on PvE ships, however they are such a pain to use (too much ammo and too crappy tracking) that I've trained Apoc and use Mega Beams instead (better tracking, better tank, no ammo(!), and not much worse damage). Arkanor > Gallente missileboat might be cool. KilROCK > Pod yourself till you got no skills left
Kaiser	Posted - 2006.04.10 09:05:00 - [18] Comparing guns should be done taking in account ammos (and so range). 200mm T2 has 22km optimal 250mm T2 has 29km optimal Let's say you want to fight at 22km range (or any other range). you can fit better ammo in 250mm for the same range which results in higher dps. In our example (no skills involved/bonus involved as they apply to both guns) 22km: 200mm T2 using lead ammo Range: 22km DPS: 7.8 (2.4 x 16 / 4.88) 250mm T2 using uranium ammo Range: 22km DPS: 10.3 (3.3 x 20 / 6.38) So we are talking about 30% more DPS for 250mm T2.
Red Drive	Posted - 2006.04.10 09:45:00 - [19] Kaiser really said it, actually. 200mm II on my ferox, as i like to get close and personal for that & also fit a bigass tank 250mm II for my Eagle, coz this ship is all about sniping and anyone saying otherwise should think twice before throwing away 2 ship bonuses.


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