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Actaeon Versaea
32
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Posted - 2014.02.14 02:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm fitting a PvE ship, but found it's cap quite weak, and was considering putting a NOS on it, to turn the nearest unhittible NPC rat into a free cap recharger.
As I understand it, for these purposes NPCs have infinite capacitor, so as long as my cap isn't fully charged, I should be able to keep sapping rats indefinitely.
Are these assumptions correct, and is this a practice idea? |
iu'ra
Doom Generation THE H0NEYBADGER
3
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nos now works on amount and all NPC's are considered to have 1 GJ. This effectively makes the nos useless in PVE besides drawing aggro to yourself. Go for the cap recharger and keep in mind that you don't HAVE to be cap stable for most if not all missions |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
362
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cap booster. Problem solved. |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
186
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Posted - 2014.02.14 08:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
I have not tested this yet, but I remember CCP saying when the NOS changes were announced that the module would not function differently in PvE. Can someone confirm/deny? |
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
116
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Posted - 2014.02.14 15:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
iu'ra wrote:Nos now works on amount and all NPC's are considered to have 1 GJ. This effectively makes the nos useless in PVE besides drawing aggro to yourself. Go for the cap recharger and keep in mind that you don't HAVE to be cap stable for most if not all missions
if you say that they are "considered" to have 1GJ, please post source.
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=17038
i see that this dude has 3000GJ
and yes, i tested it in practice and you can use rats to get more cap |
Gregor Parud
232
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Posted - 2014.02.14 15:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bertrand Butler wrote:I have not tested this yet, but I remember CCP saying when the NOS changes were announced that the module would not function differently in PvE. Can someone confirm/deny?
I haven't done tests on it nor do I have factual numbers but I HAVE noticed a difference in cap stability when using NOS fitted on a Proph while nossing an npc cruiser. It does have a noticeable positive effect. |
Cyrek Ohaya
Perkone Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2014.02.14 22:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Being a shameless Nos user on a PVE BS, I can confirm they still work. |
Meiyang Lee
Game Instrument Applications
22
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Posted - 2014.02.15 12:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Actaeon Versaea wrote:I'm fitting a PvE ship, but found it's cap quite weak, and was considering putting a NOS on it, to turn the nearest unhittible NPC rat into a free cap recharger.
As I understand it, for these purposes NPCs have infinite capacitor, so as long as my cap isn't fully charged, I should be able to keep sapping rats indefinitely.
Are these assumptions correct, and is this a practical idea?
Before the initial changes to NOS, I ran a highly unstable NOS Ashimmu in level 3 missions, it was hilariously ineffective at DPS, but incredibly cap-stable as long as it had stuff to NOS. But it was a reason to use a really cool pirate cruiser for something other than ship-spinning.
The revamped Ashimmu is a lot better at the same job and even has cap to spare for neuts, but the NOS doesn't work nearly as well as it used too (the nerf was needed though, NOS-Domis were horrific things). |
Garaba
Faceless Men
16
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Posted - 2014.02.15 15:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Meiyang Lee wrote:Actaeon Versaea wrote:I'm fitting a PvE ship, but found it's cap quite weak, and was considering putting a NOS on it, to turn the nearest unhittible NPC rat into a free cap recharger.
As I understand it, for these purposes NPCs have infinite capacitor, so as long as my cap isn't fully charged, I should be able to keep sapping rats indefinitely.
Are these assumptions correct, and is this a practical idea? Before the initial changes to NOS, I ran a highly unstable NOS Ashimmu in level 3 missions, it was hilariously ineffective at DPS, but incredibly cap-stable as long as it had stuff to NOS. But it was a reason to use a really cool pirate cruiser for something other than ship-spinning. The revamped Ashimmu is a lot better at the same job and even has cap to spare for neuts, but the NOS doesn't work nearly as well as it used too (the nerf was needed though, NOS-Domis were horrific things).
Revamped ashimmu? When did this happen? |
Meiyang Lee
Game Instrument Applications
22
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Posted - 2014.02.15 18:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Garaba wrote:
Revamped ashimmu? When did this happen?
Probably showing my age here, but I meant the revamp for Dominion in 2009.
Prior to those changes the Ashimmu was more than a little terrible. A cruiser with the hitpoints of a destroyer, terrible capacitor and next to no damage output.
The revamped version made it at least usable.
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Garaba
Faceless Men
16
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Posted - 2014.02.15 19:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
Meiyang Lee wrote:Garaba wrote:
Revamped ashimmu? When did this happen?
Probably showing my age here, but I meant the revamp for Dominion in 2009. Prior to those changes the Ashimmu was more than a little terrible. A cruiser with the hitpoints of a destroyer, terrible capacitor and next to no damage output. The revamped version made it at least usable.
Ah, been around since '06 on and off myself.
It is still a pretty bad ship IMO. Maybe the ship rebalancing will bring it up to snuff with its price. |
Actaeon Versaea
41
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Posted - 2014.02.17 04:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
I've been out testing this, given the indiffrent discussion:
Got an imparior with a Small 'Ghoul,' NOS, Civilian Laser, and Small I-a Armour Regeneration.
With my skills the fit is unstable unless the nos is running 24/7, according to EFT and the game fitting panel.
Found a Blood Upholder in a highsec belt. Activated the Armour Repairer and Laser, while orbeting, and waited. ~2:30 in my capacitor was empty (I wasn't useing a stopwatch, just a desktop Hours/Minutes clock, so the 30 is a estimate)
Next Step, docked and got a full cap recharge. Went back to the belt, and activated all my modules on the NPC (Repairer, Gun, NOS) and orebeted, waiting. I'm wrighting this as I wait, and so far we're at 6 minute with no cap issues - Dropping as low as 18%, but never emptying.
Thus, I can conclude that as of Rubicon 1.1, NOS can get you free capicitor from an NPC, and is entirley practicle.
One small note:
NPC databases advise me that the Blood Upholder has 100GJ of capicator, and a recharge time of 500 seconds, making the recharge rate negligable. The fitted NOS in this test draws 2.6GJ Per second, and thus should exhause the Upholder in 3 seconds, ignoring the 'NOS won't drain if your cap % is more than the enemy's cap %,' Thus I can also conclude, crudly: that NPCs either have infinite capicator, or a considerable cap recharge rate.
When possible I intend to use a medium or large NOS on a frigate rat, to see if the same phenomena is observes, confirming infinite cap - If you, the impossible to kill frigate rats in deadspace may become some players best friend - At least, untill they kill the rest of the room. "I just liked it because it was red. What's a Carthum?" -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-Absolution Pilot |
Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
56
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Posted - 2014.02.17 06:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
at OP, I've actually scanned an NPC with ship scanner, and it does have normal amounts of cap that its size ship should logically have. |
Actaeon Versaea
41
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Posted - 2014.02.17 06:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ronny Hugo wrote:at OP, I've actually scanned an NPC with ship scanner, and it does have normal amounts of cap that its size ship should logically have.
the post above me, I quote: "NPC databases advise me that the Blood Upholder has 100GJ of capicator, and a recharge time of 500 seconds, making the recharge rate negligable. The fitted NOS in this test draws 2.6GJ Per second, and thus should exhause the Upholder in 3 seconds, ignoring the 'NOS won't drain if your cap % is more than the enemy's cap %,' Thus I can also conclude, crudly: that NPCs either have infinite capicator, or a considerable cap recharge rate." End quote. Your math is wrong. You can pull 2.6Gj per second for 38 seconds before the NOS stops, assuming zero cap recharging. Because that is how long it takes 100 to become 0 if you take away 2.6 every second. It does not take 3 seconds. I can't even begin to explain the rest of how capacitors work because I can't be bothered.
Thankyou. Typo. The fact remains, however, it did not deplet in 12 minutes by the time I concluded the test, which still leads me to believe they have either infinite cap, or ethreal charge rates. "I just liked it because it was red. What's a Carthum?" -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-Absolution Pilot |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2785
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Posted - 2014.02.17 07:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
NOS does work but I find the range on it makes it almost useless in PvE. Even a BS with 20km range will rarely have anything to drain (unless you let a cruiser follow you around or something). The times when you can use the NOS, you usually don't bother because you just want to kill everything fast so I'd recommend just sticking to a cap booster. Oh god. |
Actaeon Versaea
41
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Posted - 2014.02.17 08:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:NOS does work but I find the range on it makes it almost useless in PvE. Even a BS with 20km range will rarely have anything to drain (unless you let a cruiser follow you around or something). The times when you can use the NOS, you usually don't bother because you just want to kill everything fast so I'd recommend just sticking to a cap booster.
In this situation a booster isn't an option. The ship has to be able to stay on site for extended periods, and there is no mid slot I want to sacrifice. Yes, the plan was to just let a frigate follow me around, then kill it when I finish sites. I fly ships fitted with close range weapons, so the NOS range isn't a factor for me. "I just liked it because it was red. What's a Carthum?" -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-Absolution Pilot |
Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
56
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Posted - 2014.02.17 08:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Actaeon Versaea wrote:Thankyou. Typo. The fact remains, however, it did not deplet in 12 minutes by the time I concluded the test, which still leads me to believe they have either infinite cap, or ethreal charge rates.
What it leads you to believe I have little control over. I can only tell you that cap recharge rate is not constant, it increases the less cap you have, so at some point your ship has lots of cap recharge and the NPC has lots of cap recharge, and the NOS steals a little bit of cap from the enemy (but if you have 50Gj left then the NOS don't steal cap from the NPC when the NPC has 50Gj left, but the NOS keeps cycling and once the NPC has 53Gj then the NOS takes 3Gj etc). if you Really think about it, it all makes perfect sense if you just bother to check how capacitors actually work. |
Actaeon Versaea
41
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Posted - 2014.02.17 08:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ronny Hugo wrote:Actaeon Versaea wrote:Thankyou. Typo. The fact remains, however, it did not deplet in 12 minutes by the time I concluded the test, which still leads me to believe they have either infinite cap, or ethreal charge rates. What it leads you to believe I have little control over. I can only tell you that cap recharge rate is not constant, it increases the less cap you have, so at some point your ship has lots of cap recharge and the NPC has lots of cap recharge, and the NOS steals a little bit of cap from the enemy (but if you have 50Gj left then the NOS don't steal cap from the NPC when the NPC has 50Gj left, but the NOS keeps cycling and once the NPC has 53Gj then the NOS takes 3Gj etc). if you Really think about it, it all makes perfect sense if you just bother to check how capacitors actually work.
Thanks for that. The bottom line as I see it is that the fit was inherently unstable without the NOS, so I believe in this case it is a safe bet. As said, I plan to run further tests with a cruiser (So it's even more unstable, so effects are more pronounced, esp. if NOSing friages) "I just liked it because it was red. What's a Carthum?" -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-Absolution Pilot |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2785
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Posted - 2014.02.17 08:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
I've always been under the impression that NPCs have infinite cap. Oh god. |
Tasiv Deka
End-of-Line
203
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Posted - 2014.02.17 17:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:I've always been under the impression that NPCs have infinite cap.
This is true you cannot under ANY circumstances cap out an NPC which is why the Nos lets you use Ships as mobile batteries. Also when they first announced these changes it was brought up that it would affect PVE and CCP said they would make sure that you could still use this strategy. Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts...-á
The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth. |
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