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Cesium133
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Posted - 2006.04.11 19:50:00 -
[1]
As a college student, I'm frequently stranded in dull classes or at my campus job, all the while with a computer terminal handy but no way to run EVE. This means that I have to round-robin my training schedule so that I'm continuously training while away, and skills only finish when I'm back at home in order to set a new skill up.
However, while I'm gone, I do get to view my current training status at http://myeve.eve-online.com/character/skilltree.asp. If I can see a complete print out of the current skills I have trained, and have the ability to train, why can't I just change my current skill on this page? The script currently hooks into the game database to get the information (as well as my current skill training and the time remaining), so it probably would not be too difficult to code this added functionality. Then I could update my skill with my web-enabled phone (or Sidekick II), or from a lab computer, enabling a much more micro-managed, goal-oriented training schedule.
#insert inane personal signature here |
Isabella Montague
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Posted - 2006.04.11 20:10:00 -
[2]
I disagree.
Things like that should be controled from inside the game only. IMO anyways
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Drew Blaze
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Posted - 2006.04.11 20:13:00 -
[3]
Can never happen...
Will never happen...
Its been said over and over again...
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Secret Alt. |
Cesium133
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Posted - 2006.04.11 20:29:00 -
[4]
Why is that? The whole skill training system is the reason that I can continue to play EVE, and it is one of the hooks that I've used to bring several people into the game. It allows us to better our characters without ceaseless hours grinding in some valley with yellow/orange mob spawns. Let's take it to the next logical conclusion. Skill training should be something you can not only view, but update, from outside of the game. There are just those moments where you can't be around to do it. For instance, at a family reunion or on a long vacation. Unless you decide to start RE-training Industrial level 5, odds are your skill training will finish while you're away. If you have a brief moment of web access, you should be able to update your skills.
#insert inane personal signature here |
Mihail d'Amour
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Posted - 2006.04.11 20:55:00 -
[5]
the goal was not to encourage people never playing the game as well as limit the potential for e-bay abuse of character creation/training with the use of bots. These would be very easy to automate over the web but are considerably less so using the game's client. I think everyone who plays thinks it would be a cool feature, and 90% of us are willing to give up that feature to help limit those abuses. Talk around the table suggests some kind of a queuing system (possibly limited to a single skill) to limit the impact of forgetting to change out skills before going on holiday.
On a side note, this is a game and your 'real life' is far more important than any time lost working on your character in Eve. Keep it all in perspective.
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In nomine Domine, quod erat malum |
Cesium133
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Posted - 2006.04.11 21:00:00 -
[6]
My "real life" is more important, though I don't know why you'd put it in quotes. That's what raises the problem - The fact that days lost in EVE can mean a lot, and when real life interferes, it's irrecoverably lost time.
With other MMOs it's not as much a problem, since if I miss a day of grinding I can just grind harder the next day. Beyond training the Learning skills and getting implants, you can't speed up your EVE skill training to compensate for those days you missed because you were out of town. Since you can't make up for missed days, systems should be in place to help prevent the problem.
#insert inane personal signature here |
St Dragon
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Posted - 2006.04.11 21:10:00 -
[7]
Some time aago a developer commented on this type of idea the main reson it wont happen is that E-Baying will be too easy and they WANT people to log in and play.
However there is no reason it wont happen in the future if you can solve these problems.
One idea is to make a max of say 4 skills that can be remotly trained via this website per year that way it will cover emergency skill changes that crop up from time to time but will hardly be something that an E-Bayer can use a lot off [unless he is willing to wait 15 years or so to make a sellable charecter].
There you go a decent idea to help you but i doubt things will change.
And truth is i dont mind it as it is.
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"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand |
Vishnej
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Posted - 2006.04.11 21:56:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Vishnej on 11/04/2006 21:57:03
CCP will soon be throwing you a bone - a 2-skill quota.
So you can set a 4 hour long skill to train, and have it start on the 30 day skill when that finishes.
It ain't botted learning lists (as what you suggest would devolve into), but it does allow you to actually use all your time as you wish, which I think is the right place for Eve.
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Hol D'Jhor
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Posted - 2006.04.11 22:07:00 -
[9]
Personally im shocked its not been implemented already. It would only take minor code work to make the website update the game. After all the web site runs on a server and stores data onto a hard drive, thats all the game does
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Cesium133
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Posted - 2006.04.11 23:52:00 -
[10]
I'd be satisfied with a queue system, though there would be ways to kill a bot's ability to do it through the web portal (small Java applet for instance, even though I hate Java with a passion). Eventually I think the technology could be rolled out that would allow for this kind of functionality without bots ruining it. Till then, a queue of 4 or so skills is fine. Thanks for letting me know about it.
#insert inane personal signature here |
Cavy Dan
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Posted - 2006.04.12 00:05:00 -
[11]
Kieron Writes:
 Quote:
The Devs have stated on a number of occasions the reasoning behind the decision to not introduce a skill queue system and a web-based interface for skill selection. Mostly, it centers around this being a game we want you to play, not a web-based competition centered around who can get to 100 Million skill points the fastest.
There are work arounds for time constraints under the existing system. Set a short skill for the times when you are playing, a longer skill for the times when you are not available.
We are having a difficult enough time enforcing the issues caused by ISK and item sellers, let alone players selling characters on Ebay. We are not going to introduce another game mechanic that will allow 'character farmers' an easier time with their trade.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
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My Band's new Demo: Linkage to Torrent |
Cesium133
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Posted - 2006.04.12 01:00:00 -
[12]
That's silly. The workarounds don't always solve the problem. And can anyone actually get more money for a character on eBay than they spend getting its skills up? Getting the Learning skills to T2 level 4 alone takes ~2 months. Also, the real question isn't about this being a game "that people play," because training skills doesn't equal playing the game. When you're playing, you're playing, when you're logging in for a minute to change skills you are not. Skill training should not really be considered a part of active play of the game. It's something that happens in the background, detached from what you are or are not doing in your spacecraft. It would not harm the community to allow people to queue one train, since the people who log in to play will still do so. All it does is mean the people who can't log in at other times aren't getting shafted irrecoverable training time, as I've argued earlier.
#insert inane personal signature here |
Mihail d'Amour
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Posted - 2006.04.12 01:07:00 -
[13]
Skill Training - Queue or Dual training
Enabling players to either queue so that training takes the next skill level or starts training another skill up another level. Dual training enables you to have a primary long-term skill in training with a secondary short-term skill sharing the training time. After the secondary skill level has trained, the primary skill trains at 100% again.
Quoted from the in development page.
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In nomine Domine, quod erat malum |
Crovus
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Posted - 2006.04.12 01:33:00 -
[14]
What about those of us that go on really long work related trips? I know a few people that are gone for 2 to 3 weeks at a time. In World of Warcraft, your character gains rested xp while you're offline logged out at an inn or a city. There should be some way to allow people to change their skills or set up a queue, so that they don't miss training time, because they couldn't log in due to work related issues.
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Mihail d'Amour
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Posted - 2006.04.12 01:54:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Crovus
What about those of us that go on really long work related trips? I know a few people that are gone for 2 to 3 weeks at a time. In World of Warcraft, your character gains rested xp while you're offline logged out at an inn or a city. There should be some way to allow people to change their skills or set up a queue, so that they don't miss training time, because they couldn't log in due to work related issues.
You'll have month-long skills soon enough. And, FYI, your 'blue' has a maximum of 25 or so bars in WoW. So, after a week, it doesn't help anymore to be resting.
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In nomine Domine, quod erat malum |
Nifel
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Posted - 2006.04.12 08:30:00 -
[16]
I can't wait for the queue/dual skill training system to hit TQ. I hate training small skills with a passion because I no longer have time to play EVE as much as I used to. So I end up training them a bit here and a bit there, or not at all as I can't be bothered logging into EVE for days because of work.
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago."
RKK Ranking: (MIN13) Jata |
St Dragon
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Posted - 2006.04.12 14:48:00 -
[17]
Just read about the duel skill training system now this idea rocks!!!!!!
fOR THOSE WHO CANT FIND IT YOU SET A PRIMARY SKILL TO TRAIN AND A SECONDARY THE PRIMARY LEARNS AT 100% SPEED AND THE SECONDARY LEARNS AT I THINK IT WAS SAID 30% when the primary is done the secondary switches to primary slot leaving the secondary empty till you assign a new skill.
P.S. i hate my caps lock key 
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"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand |
Chaoskeeper
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Posted - 2006.04.12 14:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: St Dragon
Just read about the duel skill training system now this idea rocks!!!!!!
fOR THOSE WHO CANT FIND IT YOU SET A PRIMARY SKILL TO TRAIN AND A SECONDARY THE PRIMARY LEARNS AT 100% SPEED AND THE SECONDARY LEARNS AT I THINK IT WAS SAID 30% when the primary is done the secondary switches to primary slot leaving the secondary empty till you assign a new skill.
P.S. i hate my caps lock key
that's 130% of training speed.... where has that been when I was "young"...
no thanks
I like the 50/50 version of that idea tho
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St Dragon
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Posted - 2006.04.12 15:03:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Chaoskeeper
Originally by: St Dragon
Just read about the duel skill training system now this idea rocks!!!!!!
fOR THOSE WHO CANT FIND IT YOU SET A PRIMARY SKILL TO TRAIN AND A SECONDARY THE PRIMARY LEARNS AT 100% SPEED AND THE SECONDARY LEARNS AT I THINK IT WAS SAID 30% when the primary is done the secondary switches to primary slot leaving the secondary empty till you assign a new skill.
P.S. i hate my caps lock key
Sorry where do you get the 130% from [scratches head] skill in secondary slot trains at 30% speed so its trained at 30% speed then it moves to primary slot and the training speed is then at 100%
that's 130% of training speed.... where has that been when I was "young"...
no thanks
I like the 50/50 version of that idea tho
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"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand |
Stephen Chow
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Posted - 2006.04.12 15:08:00 -
[20]
I concur, 50/50 would be very nice.
On the idea about web-based skills training, it's cool on paper and it helps some people, but the security problems with basing it on the web are crazy. The web is way too dynamic an enviroment to ever securely create a system that won't be set upon and exploited to the fullest.
I believe a very intelligent poster once commented on the fact that most players cannot see beyond their self-interests. Instead of demanding an option that is inherently harmful to the game (after all, hacking on the web just keeps growing, look at how screwed the average user is in regards to spyware/malaware, solve the problem yourself with workarounds.
The best workaround is to get a cheap laptop that will let you log in and get into skill train with that at work or school. I do that. A sub-500 dollar laptop where I can do little else but change skills and maybe travel to get a new skill book.
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St Dragon
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Posted - 2006.04.12 15:11:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Stephen Chow
I concur, 50/50 would be very nice.
On the idea about web-based skills training, it's cool on paper and it helps some people, but the security problems with basing it on the web are crazy. The web is way too dynamic an enviroment to ever securely create a system that won't be set upon and exploited to the fullest.
I believe a very intelligent poster once commented on the fact that most players cannot see beyond their self-interests. Instead of demanding an option that is inherently harmful to the game (after all, hacking on the web just keeps growing, look at how screwed the average user is in regards to spyware/malaware, solve the problem yourself with workarounds.
The best workaround is to get a cheap laptop that will let you log in and get into skill train with that at work or school. I do that. A sub-500 dollar laptop where I can do little else but change skills and maybe travel to get a new skill book.
Exelent point something like remote skill switching could provide another opening for hackers
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"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand |
Stitcher
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Posted - 2006.04.12 15:41:00 -
[22]
You know, I was all in the "make it possible to change skill training from the web" camp previously, but what people have been saying here about the potential for abuse has kind of changed my mind. That two-skill queue setup sounds a lot better to me. after all, if you choose the right skills, there's no way you're going to be away from your copy of EVE that long that you won't be able to cover the whole time.
Mind you, I'm lucky - we've got EVE installed on the PCs in the lab at my university... 
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Drizit
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Posted - 2006.04.12 19:42:00 -
[23]
Anyone who is complaining about not being able to change skills for a week at a time on a regular basis should really be looking at why they play at all. If you think that you would be logging in to play 3 or 4 times a month, Eve is costing a lot of money for such a short play time.
Other than that, even a rank 2 lvl5 skill takes over a week. when the new dual training comes into effect, two of them back to back and it's 2 weeks covered straight off. As you get higher rank skills, you'll be more concerned about how long it's taking to train your skills rather than the amount of time you are losing.
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Major Dark
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Posted - 2006.04.12 23:10:00 -
[24]
Now that i have read everyones view, my view has changed also that yeah, open web access to secure eve data is too much of a big risk. We all know and love DT and every knows the reasons but for eve to go down due to hacks etc because of the webs interface with DB's etc, no thanks.
dual training 4tw!
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