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CCP. have you asked Ebay to remove Eve-online items?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.04.13 04:20:00 - [31] Originally by: voogru The only way to stop ISK selling, is to ban players buying ISK. It's already banned. What now? Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Daren Raxx	Posted - 2006.04.13 04:44:00 - [32] Well in SWG the term we used was CCF(chinese credit farmers) They were all over the server running missions, from player citys that were not busy. I dont know about EVE but in SWG they were easily spoted and known. They ran around in packs of 8+ all low levels and 1 high level(the ringleader) Devs always made posts to the community to /report them but they were never dealt with, because there isnt much they could do for proff. Sure it dont take a rocket scientist to know what there doing but with out solid proff nothing can happen. As for them being removed from ebay, I doubt that will happen. If it was as easy for CCP to just ask them to be removed, Im sure all the other company's from diff games woulda figured that out. EVE is just one of MANY games ppl use to profit from on ebay/internet. Not to mention for SWG even though it was run by SOE Lucas arts is still the main and trust me when i say if legal action would affect it, Goerge Lucas woulda done it, you know how he is when it comes to other ppl making a profit of his "Star Wars" title.
Kalaan Oratay	Posted - 2006.04.13 08:09:00 - [33] Can CCP buy some of the cheaper stuff, (I think I saw some stuff for like 5 bucks) and then ban the dude that delievers -> follow the paper trail and ban all involved etc etc? Or does such a paper trail even exist? Or could CCP setup fake ebay auctions and then ban anyone who bought items from them? Im sure you could work it legally such that, money is exchanged, isk is sent, at which point the EULA has been broken and CCP is within its rights to ban accounts. Do this 10 or so times and the fear of getting banned could dry up the market quite well. Maybe the combination of the two could result in no net monetary losses (for CCP..)? ^^
spurious signal	Posted - 2006.04.13 08:10:00 - [34] Originally by: Vincent Rainbow CCP have a 'legal team' ? What do they do? I think Kieron meant to say "barely legal team"
Big Muthatrucker	Posted - 2006.04.13 08:13:00 - [35] Too many people actualy make a living off of selling IP...I remember a case involving a korean man (dont remember the specifics) but due to a server failure (I think it was UO) some accounts got rolled back or deleted...at anyrate this guy lost some fake fantasy ideas basicly some lines of code and sued EA and won...dont think EA ended up paying though cuz this guy wa In korea and notorious for copy right infringement so I think it came down to yea right we'll pay as soon as finding a legitimate copy of any game was easier than finding rips found at every street corner market vendor. I have an Idea though would actualy do two things at once. Take 3 months...make everything in the game 1 isk...at the end of the 3 months...all items bought for 1 isk would dissapear...remove concord and all sentry guns from the galaxy...every sector 0.0 and no sec status hits...would be total chaos (total fun) and it would make it so for 3 months no one would buy any isk from these bozos making it hard for them to put food on the table...forcing them to sell their computers to pay rent and live in a cardboard box....the same effect would be achieved if for the same time frame you made BP reqs only 1 of each mineral making mining useless...but a little harder to regulate Heartless you say? Yes you know why these guys justify this as work treating the eve world as real life and such they deserve to make real life money off of it...well in real life if you aquire money illegaly (counterfiting, stealing ect) using their own criteria they are criminals and should not get anything better than a soggy card board box... Inappropriate content - Laqum
voogru	Posted - 2006.04.13 08:50:00 - [36] Originally by: Joskken Inx Yeah but the hard part is how do you prove character X bought ISK from character Y? You That's easy! Hmm, player X (who is 2 years old, in a player corp) suddenly got 100M isk from player Y (which they are in an NPC corp, 1 day old, and their name is "dsadhasiudhau") Hmm, thats a pretty nice newbie giving away 100M ISK to some random player... Wait, how did he get 100M ISK so fast? Oh, look, he sent 100M ISK to player A, and player B, player C, player D, player E, and 500 million to player F!!!! Originally by: Nyphur It's already banned. What now? My point is, the GM's don't ban players for buying ISK, or ban players selling accounts, unless they recieve tips from the player base. They don't have the manpower to do it, and they have to take care of normal petitions. I'm sure theres a few unlucky sobs that get banned, but the majority get away with it, because if they didn't get away with it, people wouldnt be buying ISK, as people who buy ISK, are usually repeat buyers. The solution: GM's dedicated to banning eBayers only.
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.04.13 08:53:00 - [37] Originally by: voogru Originally by: Nyphur It's already banned. What now? My point is, the GM's don't ban players for buying ISK, or ban players selling accounts, unless they recieve tips from the player base. They don't have the manpower to do it No, they don't have a crystal ball. No amount of manpower gives someone the ability to pull correct facts out of thin air. Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Cypherous	Posted - 2006.04.13 10:01:00 - [38] Originally by: M3ta7h3ad They do it for tickets and so on once they've been asked. No reason why EBay wouldnt listen to CCP. Its CCP's intellectual property. It wouldnt take a letter from a lawyer I doubt, it'd take the current CEO of CCP to notify them in writing asking them to remove any EVE-online products from the listings. Actually some people sell the EVE CD's and other goods so just doing a blanket removal of EVE from ebay wouldn't work, you would have to target isk specifically and also in-game items. O RLY?! --Jorauk Way cooler than Jorauk - Cortes
ParMizaN	Posted - 2006.04.13 10:11:00 - [39] Ive seen it done before, would be an excellent idea IMO. Not a 100% solution, but definately major. Phenomena of ironies, cast the litany aside How intelligible, blessed be the forgetful
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.04.13 10:18:00 - [40] Originally by: Daren Raxx As for them being removed from ebay, I doubt that will happen. If it was as easy for CCP to just ask them to be removed, Im sure all the other company's from diff games woulda figured that out. Haven't they? Win a Cerberus!! sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin Who pwned who? ~kieron
Kayno	Posted - 2006.04.13 13:51:00 - [41] Edited by: Kayno on 13/04/2006 13:53:56 Well, I think people selling isk or other thing have a legal defense, they sell "time of play" like paying for someone doing missions to bring you an item. So basicaly if you try to ban them for selling "Intel property" they defend themself saying they sell a service, renting a player to obtain objects for you. And this is legal :( i don't know nothing about ebay policy on virtual objects selling. I saw this about an other game, i'll try to find the link. I found this : http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/06/30/news_6101604.html Interesting ---
D'onryu Shoqui	Posted - 2006.04.13 13:56:00 - [42] Originally by: Kayno Well, I think people selling isk or other thing have a legal defense, they sell "time of play" like paying for someone doing missions to bring you an item. So basicaly if you try to ban them for selling "Intel property" they defend themself saying they sell a service, renting a player to obtain objects for you. And this is legal :( i don't know nothing about ebay policy on virtual objects selling. I saw this about an other game, i'll try to find the link. its still ilegal unless they are paying taxes to there goverment and i bet 0 of the isk farmers do. your suposed to declare all income so they cant say crap about it. obviously the big companys are probably different but the people who sell regular isk to them arent going to be filling in tax forms or declaring it as an income like they should.
Daimos Bellurdan	Posted - 2006.04.13 13:56:00 - [43] It is not possible to stop the selling of ISK or items. Like someone said before: The problem is not the selling. The problem are the buyers. All that stuff is being bought by regular Eve players. Either you punish those players (very hard to do) or you change the game in a way so that buying items does not give you an advantage over other players or does not save your time (which cpp will not do, as they also want to earn money). What I do not understand is: Why are you so against the selling of ISK and items? If ppl want to destroy their own gaming experience then let them.. Or are you thinking: "Mining is so boring and time consuming. Its not fun, it is work and it is unfair when others just buy it." Then I would ask: Why are you actually playing this game ?
Sensor Error	Posted - 2006.04.13 13:59:00 - [44] I'm actually gobsmacked that this is seemingly the first time CCP have heard of talking to eBay to get rid of all the IP infringement going on. I don't think there has been a single eBay / isk seller thread where someone hasn't mentioned the IP scheme that eBay do... I'm actually shocked. I think everyone had assumed that this was going on behind the scenes and thus couldn't be spoken about... RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!! ------------------------------------------ Now run along and play with your dolls...
Flyyn	Posted - 2006.04.13 14:00:00 - [45] First off did you read the OP? E-bay has been through a ringer, with Sony, EA, and a few others.... Second, I seem to recall a well known pirate being on the forums trying to get out from under -900,000,000.00 isk wallet. As he had already spent the ISK he "bought" off a E-bay seller. As for E-bay sales, that is how we caught a CEO of another well known pirate corp...One of the members in a shadow corp bought...yes I said bought...a rupture from him off of E-bay. I really dont beleave a "pirate" can make lots of ISK from gate camping anymore...Most items are destroyed, and whats left is chicken scratch...
Viktor Fyretracker	Posted - 2006.04.13 14:01:00 - [46] SOE did it but they have the Sony Corp legal department and SOE is a US based company which means threatening legal action is a bit more real(but i think its more the sony corp lawyers and their unlimited funds).
D'onryu Shoqui	Posted - 2006.04.13 14:04:00 - [47] Quote: What I do not understand is: Why are you so against the selling of ISK and items? If ppl want to destroy their own gaming experience then let them.. its not just there experience it hurts the whole economy.
Flyyn	Posted - 2006.04.13 14:04:00 - [48] Originally by: Daimos Bellurdan Edited by: Daimos Bellurdan on 13/04/2006 13:57:17 It is not possible to stop the selling of ISK or items. Like someone said before: The problem is not the selling. The problem are the buyers. All that stuff is being bought by regular Eve players. Either you punish those players (very hard to do) or you change the game in a way so that buying items does not give you an advantage over other players or does not save your time (which cpp will not do, as they also want to earn money). What I do not understand is: Why are you so against the selling of ISK and items? If ppl want to destroy their own gaming experience then let them.. Or are you thinking: "Mining is so boring and time consuming. Its not fun, it is work and it is unfair when others just buy the mins." Then I would ask: Why are you actually playing this game ? You got a point...Why spend all that money on a game? RL money is spent to play...RL money is spent to buy better ships...mods...and skills....and even though there is a trace of those transactions, I have not seen or heard of anyone getting caught and punished for it in a long time.
Jinx Barker	Posted - 2006.04.13 14:07:00 - [49] As someone suggested above; CCP make allot of money now. So, let them allocate 5,000 Dollars. Have Kieron make an E-Bay account and send him to town buying stuff from the worst offenders. I mean fromt he guys that have 5000 feedback and all about eve-online and stuff. After Kieron buys the stuff and they deliver it to his alt in Jita, they keep track of them, oh I dont know for a month, record all transactions and stuff with other players who buy, sell, trade, suply. Then, a month later, Kieron talks to Oveur and they wave a huge mega-banstick and 500, to 1000 accounts go permabaned, I am sure they will find the supliers of the stuff and those who bought it. Yeas, it involves spending their own CCP money, but oce they do that, it will probably scare s*tless all those who are selling, because they could be selling to CCP. Also, all their little disclaimers: "You are paying for the time it has taken to get the item", "By bidding you certify you are in no way affiliated with CCP" and stuff is all bool-crap and has no legal ramification in real life. Just like I cant sell a COPY of microsoft CD, I shouldnt to be able to sell my character or my ISK. Since the COPY of the CD and not the original is piracy and violation of Microsoft (read the spawn of Satan), intelelctual right, so is selling a character or ISK on E-Bay is a violation of CCP's Intellectual Property rights. Hey CCP, hire me, give me 3 grand and I will spend it all on ISK and ingame items. After I give you the names you trace em. All I want is an Impoc in return, no need to bother Kieron with it. (And I will give all the stuff I bought back to ya of course)
Viktor Fyretracker	Posted - 2006.04.13 14:07:00 - [50] Isk/platinum/gold selling ruins many MMO economies because the bots aquiring it ruin spawns for real players(in EVE this means less astroids for dedicated miners) and then as people become Artifically rich the prices go way up and basicly make the honest player unable to afford anything
D'onryu Shoqui	Posted - 2006.04.13 14:12:00 - [51] Edited by: D''onryu Shoqui on 13/04/2006 14:13:20 CCP should contact paypal about people selling ingame items that they dont legally own. im sure paypal would be willing to refund any transactions CCP would make using there service for content that belongs to CCP in the first place. if i owned CCP i would start threatening people with court cases for selling isk. most people wouldnt be willing to risk huge court costs if they lost.
Daimos Bellurdan	Posted - 2006.04.13 14:17:00 - [52] Originally by: Jinx Barker ... Then, a month later, Kieron talks to Oveur and they wave a huge mega-banstick and 500, to 1000 accounts go permabaned, I am sure they will find the supliers of the stuff and those who bought it. ... You really think a company will kick 500-1000 players just because you say so ? Wake up. As long as you keep playing the game, CCP will not act. Why should they? Whiners will always exist and those 500-1000 accounts belong to PAYING customers. If you do not like the way the game is then you have the right to start a discussion and prove why it is wrong the way it is. But in the end the only way to "force" ccp to do something is by quiting Eve. That is the best demonstration you can give. If a lot of people follow, ccp will act. But of course you will not quit so I guess the problem is not that big.
Sir Juri	Posted - 2006.04.13 14:18:00 - [53] Originally by: HippoKing Edited by: HippoKing on 13/04/2006 13:52:59 Originally by: Daren Raxx As for them being removed from ebay, I doubt that will happen. If it was as easy for CCP to just ask them to be removed, Im sure all the other company's from diff games woulda figured that out. Haven't they? this is why lol Im a noob, bear with me :P
Jinx Barker	Posted - 2006.04.13 14:28:00 - [54] Originally by: Daimos Bellurdan Originally by: Jinx Barker ... Then, a month later, Kieron talks to Oveur and they wave a huge mega-banstick and 500, to 1000 accounts go permabaned, I am sure they will find the supliers of the stuff and those who bought it. ... You really think a company will kick 500-1000 players just because you say so ? Wake up. As long as you keep playing the game, CCP will not act. Why should they? Whiners will always exist and those 500-1000 accounts belong to PAYING customers. If you do not like the way the game is then you have the right to start a discussion and prove why it is wrong the way it is. But in the end the only way to "force" ccp to do something is by quiting Eve. That is the best demonstration you can give. If a lot of people follow, ccp will act. But of course you will not quit so I guess the problem is not that big. 1) So, people who think that ISK selling and In-Game Item Selling on E-Bay is plain WRONG are whiners? 2) So, you are saying selling ISK/In Game-Items on E-Bay, although explicitly prohibited by EULA, is Ok? 3) No I will not quit, I love the game. 4) So, so long as I pay my 15 Euros/Dollar/Pounds a month I am pretty much immune, and following your logic, should go sell my 5 Billion-ISK ship on E-Bay w/o expecting any type or repercussion. What exactly are you saying? I am saying this: If CCP has knowledge & can trace 500-1000 accounts that sell ISK/In-Game items, or involved in illegal trading, they should ban them, permanently. WTF, it doesnÆt matter if they are ôpaying customerö they are violating EULA, which is in place to protect CCP and to which we agree every time we start the game. Just because I am a paying customer I should be able to screw them you mean? I donÆt get it, again, what exactly did you mean by your statement.
Slynk	Posted - 2006.04.13 14:37:00 - [55] Actually in EQ1 SOE stepped up and made Ebay remove all the charecters for sale, tho ppl just found ways around the system. But it removed alot that were for sale. Went from like 5 pages of listings to maybe 1 full.
D'onryu Shoqui	Posted - 2006.04.13 14:54:00 - [56] Quote: You really think a company will kick 500-1000 players just because you say so ? Wake up. As long as you keep playing the game, CCP will not act. Why should they? Whiners will always exist and those 500-1000 accounts belong to PAYING customers. blizzard do it every few months. they ban more than just a few thousand aswell. they banned 18,000 accounts about 3-4 months ago and so they are probably due for a mass ban again anytime soon.

kieron	Posted - 2006.04.13 20:43:00 - [57] Originally by: D'onryu Shoqui Quote: You really think a company will kick 500-1000 players just because you say so ? Wake up. As long as you keep playing the game, CCP will not act. Why should they? Whiners will always exist and those 500-1000 accounts belong to PAYING customers. blizzard do it every few months. they ban more than just a few thousand aswell. they banned 18,000 accounts about 3-4 months ago and so they are probably due for a mass ban again anytime soon. Funny you should mention that, evidently Blizzard hit 5,400 players with the ban stick and levied temp bans on another 10,700 players within the past day or three. Their crime? "The use of third-party programs to farm gold and items." As for CCP, we may not have the same community size that WoW has, but we do actively seek out and take action against macro'ers and RMT sellers, up to and including permanent bans. We just hit them in smaller batches (50-100 players upon an exhaustive investigation) and tend to not make announcements about it. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.13 21:07:00 - [58] Originally by: Jinx Barker As someone suggested above; CCP make allot of money now. So, let them allocate 5,000 Dollars. Have Kieron make an E-Bay account and send him to town buying stuff from the worst offenders. I mean fromt he guys that have 5000 feedback and all about eve-online and stuff. Let's be clear, Ebay will NOT tolerate this. If you want to sa***uard your IP, they have the verified rights program...that's it. There are all sorts of fraudulent trading issues with the a MMO company buying back anonomously from Ebay. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
D'onryu Shoqui	Posted - 2006.04.13 21:28:00 - [59] Originally by: Kieron As for CCP, we may not have the same community size that WoW has, but we do actively seek out and take action against macro'ers and RMT sellers, up to and including permanent bans. We just hit them in smaller batches (50-100 players upon an exhaustive investigation) and tend to not make announcements about it. any chance you could find out the average age of each account banned and post the number here? im just curious to wether its usually newer accounts or if alot of older accounts do naughty things aswell.
Naverin	Posted - 2006.04.13 21:33:00 - [60] its all accounts 2-3 months old doing the macroing in barges now.. id like to assume if you have been in the game 1 year + You have the ability to make plenty of Isk without resorting to macroing Lowend ores in highsec As for Ebay per the poster up a few posts.. Ebay has no choice but to comply. As sony did for Everquest.. CCP can do for Eve-online and Ebay will comply being that The intelectual property is actually CCP's and no one elses no matter how you word it.. Joke.. with Free Eve-online account.. my pen with a bonus of 1 billion isk.. They dont fly.. Sony put its foot down on Ebay.. and so should eve. it would be a sight to actually see Ebay without 10 pages of Isk sales. ______________________ I am the carebear... who doesnt use the "Correct Dread"

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