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Barthez Thed
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Posted - 2006.04.14 04:02:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Barthez Thed on 14/04/2006 04:08:06
opps pressed wron button there
As i see it anyone who fly's Caldari have a slight advantage with regards to stealth bomber. This is ok, as a ship such as this should be fairly powerful. But all of the SB's use missiles, why not have the other race ships take advantage of their race abilities.
For example have the gallente SB use hybrids, amarr use lasers and the minmatar use guns.
Just an idea, feel free to comment or add you own idea on SB's
"It's hard to be religeous when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning" -Me
Barthez Thed
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Phaese
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Posted - 2006.04.14 04:30:00 -
[2]
Firstly:
 Originally by: Nemesis's Gallante Frigate Skill bonus
5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage per level
Originally by: Purifier's Amarr Frigate Skill bonus
10% reduction in Small Energy Weapon capacitor use per level
Originally by: Hound's Minmatar Frigate Skill bonus
5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage per level
Secondly, a stealth-bomber style ship that could lay down the smack with battleship-sized turrets, besides being bizarre fluff-wise, would be way overpowered... Think about when our current SB's cruise volleys hit frigates (in my experience, two volleys take down most non-AF frigs). Now, thing if you could deliver that damage instantly instead, not having to worry about flight speeds.
Current system is fine how it is. Plus, just because the Manticore has the most damage potential doesn't mean it's overpowered - if you've ever tried to fit a Manticore you'd see that some other race's frigs have some advantages.
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Foulis
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Posted - 2006.04.14 04:41:00 -
[3]
In fact, I'm yet to see a Manticore that can fit a cloak, 3 damage mods, 2 sesnor boosters and EW. =D I loves my hound, loves it good.
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Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Boobies
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Barthez Thed
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Posted - 2006.04.14 04:58:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Barthez Thed on 14/04/2006 04:59:13
sorry i don't buy it. The manticore gets a 'frigate bonus' to cruise missiles while the other races get weapon bonuses to their small weapons. This might work if they had more than 2 turret slots each (manticore-1).
Caldari have always had the missile 'flight to target' penalty, what about exploring other penalties for the other races, range penalty for using large hybrids on a nemesis for example.
even increasing the flight speed and decreasing flight time of the cruise missiles for a manticore.
I'm not looking to nerf the manticore or have a new ship thats just better, just to mix it up a bit.
Not so sure about lasers or guns as i don't use them.
"It's hard to be religeous when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning" -Me
Barthez Thed
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Phaese
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Posted - 2006.04.14 05:24:00 -
[5]
I don't see what you're trying to suggest here; to me you seem to be making a bunch of unrelated, even conflicting, suggestions for stealth bomber changes.
Without powergrid and sig bonuses for large turrets, more turret slots in itself doesn nothing to aid stealth bombers tactically; those slots would be pretty useless.
You want to have every race with a stealth bomber suited to "their" weapon systems, but then you want a range penalty on large hybrids? If anything, a range increase would be needed to bring it in line with 100k+ cruise missile ranges.
I don't even know where you're going with changing the missile velocities, those are fine too.
Also, I want to point something out. Firstly, with maxed skills, a Manticore with three launchers is only 20% more effective (damaging) than any other stealth bomber that is using it's racial missile (i.e., thermal for Gallante, EM for Amarr, explosive for Matari).
I also want to point out that three out of the four races' assault ships are highly resistant to kinetic damage, the damage type that Caldari are given the advantage in. On the other hand, a mere one of the four races' assault ships is highly resistant to explosive... If that's not a tactical advantage for Amarr and Minmatar SBs then I don't know what it.
... The system is fine.
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Barthez Thed
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Posted - 2006.04.14 06:12:00 -
[6]
Geez have an imagination, I'm talking about making the stealth bombers for each race different. Its the only ship type in game that conforms all its ships, despite race, to 1 weapon type for its major dmg output (don't even bother with small turrets).
You didn't seem to quite get the point of my 'shortening the large hybrid range' suggestion, the point is not to make it a long range weapon, like the missiles. I don't want to bring it inline with cruise missile ranges.
I want it to be different.
what do we have now? A 3 launcher SB thats hard to fit, and 3x 2launcher SB's that are slightly easier to fit, but do slightly less dmg (though you can fit some interesting modules that improve targeting time and dmg mods). These ships are prctically used in the same way: sit at range and fire missiles, then run (depending on yours and enemy number)
Why not have more than one way of operating? for example:
Large hybrids: shorter range so you have to get relatively close = risk, Large hybrids have low tracking so are more likely to miss = another risk, but the larger hybrids do more dmg than the cruise missiles = reward
Imagine how much fun it would be trying to do a hit and run when you are only, say, 10km away from the target. Yeah you are more likely to get caught by an inty scrambler, but it would then come down to pilot planning and different skill to pull it off. And the reward? How about better dmg output?
What about tracking? i hear you cry. That could be linked to SB skill for that ship, generally boosted, or even tracking mods being a requirement to use large hybrids (or large turrets).
It would be a case of balancing this so that each race has its advantagous use of stealth bombers, but also a certain disadvantage as well.
Barthez
"It's hard to be religeous when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning" -Me
Barthez Thed
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Barthez Thed
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Posted - 2006.04.14 06:37:00 -
[7]
oh yes, people please give suggestions for lasers and guns and others. I don't use them myself, so i'm not sure what they can do.
perhaps lasers can be extreme long range, but do less damage?
What about drones? Could they be used effectively with an SB?
Go on post an idea
"It's hard to be religeous when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning" -Me
Barthez Thed
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Calleb
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Posted - 2006.04.14 07:55:00 -
[8]
At the end of the day when you can fit cruise launchers on a frigate, nobody in their right mind is going to fit small turrets instead. Therefore a bonus to small turrets is just a total waste.
The need a bonus to EW in some form i would suggest. And while you are doing this DEVs, sort out the other covert ops frigate bonuses. Its just too dificult to fit out probe launchers and a cloak on the true covert ops ships. You are killing my buisness - get it sorted please 
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BigJim Beef
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Posted - 2006.04.14 13:53:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Calleb
At the end of the day when you can fit cruise launchers on a frigate, nobody in their right mind is going to fit small turrets instead. Therefore a bonus to small turrets is just a total waste.
Not sure of the exact math, but i'm pretty sure that 280IIs do higher DoT on my hound than cruise missiles ... although of i do have small arty spec at 5 while only cruise missiles at 4, but still. The hound has the same bonus as a wolf, with half the turrets ... that's not to be sniffed at imo.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2006.04.14 14:01:00 -
[10]
i think it is in the name stealth bomber.. now who would fitt turrets on a bomber?
"We brake for nobody"
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.04.14 14:12:00 -
[11]
Points is: you don't want to decloak close enough to use turrets with stealth bombers. If an inty, for example, survives the alpha and keeps a cool head, he can rip you a new one.
Drones are Gallente.
Missiles are Caldari.
Get this into your damned head! |
Ranger 1
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Posted - 2006.04.14 14:14:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 14/04/2006 14:15:14
Patch day always brings out the same 2 types of people.
1: "I'm an IT expert in RL, and they have done this all wrong" type.
2: "I'm a paying customer, fix it immediately or I quit" type. |
Ranger 1
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Posted - 2006.04.14 14:17:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 14/04/2006 14:16:41
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
i think it is in the name stealth bomber.. now who would fitt turrets on a bomber?
Historically speaking? Everyone.
Pardon the double post.
Patch day always brings out the same 2 types of people.
1: "I'm an IT expert in RL, and they have done this all wrong" type.
2: "I'm a paying customer, fix it immediately or I quit" type. |
BigJim Beef
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Posted - 2006.04.14 14:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ithildin
Points is: you don't want to decloak close enough to use turrets with stealth bombers. If an inty, for example, survives the alpha and keeps a cool head, he can rip you a new one.
Quite true, but you still have the option of a decloak > fire > recloak at range, and the turrets boost you up close vs weak targets of opportunity.
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Barthez Thed
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Posted - 2006.04.16 01:33:00 -
[15]
bump
I think this is worth a few more ideas, anyone got any ideas for guns and lasers.
"It's hard to be religeous when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning" -Me
Barthez Thed
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Technosites
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Posted - 2006.04.16 14:44:00 -
[16]
the manticore does have a penelty because you have to wait for the missiles to hit, would this work:
decloak
fire FoF missiles
cloak
watch FoF missiles hit target
will the Fof missiles only fire on targets that have you locked and are fireing on you?
This is a FoF missile question that is related to stealth bomber usage.
Many Thanks,
Technosites
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"We would change the world, but God wouldn't give us the source code."
DIY FTW |
Aleis
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Posted - 2006.04.16 15:05:00 -
[17]
How about a Stealth SmartBomber?
Now that would be fun.
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Technosites
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Posted - 2006.04.16 15:06:00 -
[18]
uh, think you will have to use large smartbombs cos you decloak at 2KM so i don't think it would work, gd idea lol
Technosites
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"We would change the world, but God wouldn't give us the source code."
DIY FTW |
LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.04.16 16:27:00 -
[19]
Well i have yet to see the use of bomber. Atm inty pwns them better. However i cannot fly caldari and my missile skills are trash. And i don't see them improving anytime soon.
Die, die, die. |
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