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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |

Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team
55
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Posted - 2014.03.26 16:54:00 -
[121] - Quote
mynnna wrote:OH GOD RAN OUT OF WORDS... Hendrick Tallardar wrote:That said, Mynnna you explain what is wrong with the current resource balance/income incentives in Null and how they require a sprawling empire. How would you propose to amend the current resource distribution to allow for a dreaded "blue donut" argument from existing? In essence, what in your mind would work to appease those that cry out over the largeness of nullsec sov residents and resolve the problems you addressed in your article with the current mechanics? I have no idea. I haven't gotten a whole lot further on that aspect of the problem. The personal income side of it is comparatively easy - it already exists (just not necessarily to the scale it needs to) in the form of the military and industry indices in a system, and the obvious approach is to simply build atop those mechanics to build higher & taller at the expense of sprawl. And to a degree that's a partial solution to the problem of organizational income, if you accept "renting" as an acceptable resource - if any given system can support a heck of a lot more people so long as it's active, then you can obviously charge a lot more for access to those systems, put more people into them, or both. It's more problematic when it comes to considering moons though. As long as we're doing the handwavey thing we can pretend industry is now a viable activity in null, so perhaps that drives mining (which can be taxed) and more lively markets (ditto) in addition to mining and POCO fees, but something more is probably needed. Given the somewhat delicate balance moons are designed for going and saying "okay now there's this thing that jacks the output by 1000% but (handwavey limiter so they can't be everything goes here)". Even if the limiting mechanics work, suddenly you've got a bunch of different groups sucking way more goo out of the same number of moons and the balance goes out the window. If that can't be worked around then moons wind up turning into bonuses rather than a serious income source. So what replaces them? Something new, no idea what just now...haven't really gotten that far in the brainstorming.
Wouldn't a simpler solution to this be to move moon mining to the surface via PI? Just allow the items from a moon to be sent to the parent planet and allow variable tax rates to be set for moon PI vs planet PI. This would allow for a more bottom up income and also increase the conflict drivers of shooting POCOs. You could still keep reactions in POS or move these also to the surface. |

Dramaticus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
489
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Posted - 2014.03.26 17:25:00 -
[122] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Jayne Fillon wrote: I just listened to this interview - although I've enjoyed the majority of podcasts that capstable has done with the candidates, I was greatly disappointed to see the focus of this interview so heavily based on Mynnna's involvement with GSF and TMC, and not regarding Mynnna or the CSM itself. Sure, Mynnna is a block candidate, but he's far from an empty shell of a candidate and deserves the same level of respect and types of questions that any of the other candidates has received.  mynnna is an being on the same moral level as erotica1. The only difference is mynnna has a massive voting bloc behind him, filled with like-minded sociopaths. He has done more damage to this game than any griefing organization can even imagine. And he will do so much more before he is through. Eve will not be recognizable in a few years with what it is today. Naturally, the sociopaths will seize on that comment and say "hurrah, we hope so!" But the subscription base will have shrunk, because high sec will be a wasteland, and god knows what the nulls sec cartels have planned for low sec and wh space. We have seen the 1st inkling with the suggested change to K162 mechanics, and that is a terrible idea.
Does it bother you that our playstyle is not only successful but lauded by CCP and the gaming community at large? The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal
The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them |

Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team
55
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Posted - 2014.03.26 17:27:00 -
[123] - Quote
Also would multiple stations per system in 0.0 solve some of the problems with industry?
I can see the bad side of this as it would be just more ehp to grind though if a system was attacked but why should 0.0 be unable to have multiple stations when any NPC controlled system can? |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14539
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Posted - 2014.03.26 22:49:00 -
[124] - Quote
Fredric Wolf wrote:Also would multiple stations per system in 0.0 solve some of the problems with industry?
I can see the bad side of this as it would be just more ehp to grind though if a system was attacked but why should 0.0 be unable to have multiple stations when any NPC controlled system can?
Honestly, by the time you've gone through the defensive SBUs, the TCU, the ihub, the TCU again, the ibub again, the station, the station again... adding another station to each station stage aint that big a deal. It's the timers that get you as much as anything.
1 Kings 12:11
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1032

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Posted - 2014.03.27 01:14:00 -
[125] - Quote
I have removed a rule breaking post and those quoting it.
The rules: 3. Ranting is prohibited.
A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3244
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Posted - 2014.03.27 01:46:00 -
[126] - Quote
Lucine Delacourt wrote:If a certain play style is unrepresented on the CSM, for whatever reason, and a proposed change will dramatically effect them what do you do? I know you are a bloc candidate and you realistically don't have to do anything. I guess I am just curious. Low Sec was basically unrepresented(At least "officially") this term, if something came up that could have a potentially large effect on the low-sec player base do you let it go as "not your area of expertise" or search out as much information from those in the know as possible without breaking the NDA?
It's pretty much a case by case thing. Sometimes a change will be... I don't want to say minor enough since that's not the right way to put it but perhaps "not so radical" that you can't find people's thoughts on it already out there. Other times it'll be far enough afield from existing mechanics that it's not something anyone's ever thought of, though and at that point... you can't very well go asking about it, people tend to treat "hypothetical ideas" coming from a CSM as well, less than hypothetical. In this kind of case (though that second one especially) the best we can do is go with our best guess, and better still, recommend something get out there as soon as possible to get input (not that that's something that shouldn't happen all the time anyway).
And sometimes the lack of expertise means we never realize its a problem at all. 
Fredric Wolf wrote:Also would multiple stations per system in 0.0 solve some of the problems with industry?
I can see the bad side of this as it would be just more ehp to grind though if a system was attacked but why should 0.0 be unable to have multiple stations when any NPC controlled system can?
Second question first - it certainly wouldn't hurt. One of the undeniable advantages of highsec is the ability to get a factory and refinery together, only to have (ironically enough) the capability rarely matter - you buy your minerals in Jita and then ship them. In nullsec, where your minerals are invariably coming to you in non-mineral form (whether that's compressed goods or raw ore from a miner), multiple stations per system would eliminate some of the effort (the risk of tons of trips in a freighter between systems) that renders most industry undesirable.
And while it'd be more of an EHP grind, that's only true now. CCP is on public record as wanting to get away from that kind of capture system SomedayGäó though.
Fredric Wolf wrote:Wouldn't a simpler solution to this be to move moon mining to the surface via PI? Just allow the items from a moon to be sent to the parent planet and allow variable tax rates to be set for moon PI vs planet PI. This would allow for a more bottom up income and also increase the conflict drivers of shooting POCOs. You could still keep reactions in POS or move these also to the surface.
Moving reactions to the surface and allowing them to be attacked via orbital bombardment would be a great feature to incorporate a almost useless feature in game currently.
Well, I'd hesitate to call it simpler but yes it would be a possibility. Not sure it's one I'd want to see though - personal income that gets people out in space actively doing things would be better and as I've opined elsewhere I don't think top down income is inherently bad in and of itself, just how it interacts with today's sov and capture and power projection mechanics. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |

Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
103
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:36:00 -
[127] - Quote
grrrrMynnna
I mean...
I just wanted to drop by and say that we could do much worse than Mynnna another time around. A very intelligent person who probably/definitely won't/hasn't abuse(d) the position for the greater good(n).
In all seriousness, I like Mynnna and am glad to see him back. Someday we might even see Mynnna see the light and pull a 7o
;) thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks | thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |

mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3244
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:27:00 -
[128] - Quote
Who's to say I don't have a character in BNI already?  Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |

Jayne Fillon
316
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:36:00 -
[129] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Who's to say I don't have a character in BNI already?  Having an alt in BNI, I can confirm Mynnna has an alt in BNI as well. However, afaik the only thing he does in Brave is lose Atrons while humming the James Bond theme song.
Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI. |

mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3244
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Posted - 2014.03.28 12:37:00 -
[130] - Quote
Yeah pretty much. It's a refreshing change from my normal logging in activities, which these days primarily consist of changing skills and doing logistics in renter space.  Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
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Scooter McCabe
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
402
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Posted - 2014.03.29 05:07:00 -
[131] - Quote
If you are like me, a hard scrabble intercity youth, you know street cred means everything. Mynnna, or as he is known on the street "Make'em say My-naa-nnaa", has the street cred you want and the street cred intercity Iceland needs. |

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1195
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Posted - 2014.03.30 07:38:00 -
[132] - Quote
mynnna wrote:
So what do you do? You can't go and handwave something to make the goo all more valuable, because doing so by enough to make goo mining competitive even just with other kinds of mining means you increase the cost of Tech II by several hundred percent. So that's out. Clearly the solution is to just make it a sporadic, incursion-like activity right? That would make it valuable enough, surely, and give you a means to preserve the bottleneck that gives R64s their value in the first place to boot.
May I present a counter argument that allows for the concept of ring mining to still live, that you appear to have not considered. 'Ring Mining' to stand for whatever active method of getting Moon Goo should be brought in to replace passive moon extraction.
That ring mining provide not just moon goo. If Moon Goo is the sole product of ring mining then obviously your maths is right. (Just for a note, based on averages from March 2012-March2013 incursions only provide sufficient income for 70 players to earn 100 millions isk/hr assuming they ran 24/7.) However if Moon goo is a minor product along side another major product then Ring Mining can be worth it compared to other mining fairly easily. If we take the figure of 40 Mil/Hr for a decent Null sec miner with boosts, which last I looked was a fairly decent figure, much better than any high sec miner will turn. Then we only need to add another 26 Million of alternative products to bring it up to equivalent.
For an example. If we added in an event that happened across all area's of space, that created a bunch of grav anomalies in a constellation. These Anomalies would have ore appropriate to the region. And in addition they would yield moon goo as per your maths above with R64's being Null based & poor moon minerals being anywhere (Amount to be based on averages used per month vs how common these anomalies are). Now we have a mechanic that would always be worth a miners time to take part in, since it is a higher hourly income than they could turn by doing standard mining in their region. It may still not compete with Ratting/Missions, but given how poor mining in general is relative to Ratting & Missions, that's a very hard thing to do.
Sorry for derailing this off your CSM campaign though, just wanted to present alternative side thoughts to an idea you appear to be simply binning, as the current status quo obviously favours your coalition idea's to keep alive theories to change it in good ways seem worth while. |

mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3252
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Posted - 2014.03.30 07:53:00 -
[133] - Quote
Oh it's not a derail at all, nothing to worry about there. In basic concept you're right, that the underperforming value could be supplemented by something else (or the goo itself be the supplement) to create an overall reasonable income. There is one minor problem with the specific implementation you're suggesting, which is that without a clear supply constraint and/or gating mechanism you'd probably bring goo prices crashing to the ground, with some of the quirks of nullsec grav site mining making that all the more likely. Some of the particular mechanics I'm thinking of could be changed or accounted for, but it'd still be very easy to flood the markets... undermining the concept in the first place. By no means impossible to work around, but definitely something to watch out for.
Still, as I've said, I'm okay with top down incomes existing and don't think they are a problem in and of themselves... only when taken in context of other mechanics. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1197
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Posted - 2014.03.31 05:11:00 -
[134] - Quote
Fair enough, with that particular implementation I was suggesting I was building off your comment in your previous talk about moving moon goo to an incursion type mechanic. So the gating mechanic would be the fact that these sites weren't always available. I.E. for Null they would be in addition to the standard industrial index sites, not an 'always on' effect.
Agree that there does need to be some kind of supply limitation though to avoid T2 being almost as cheap as T1 |

Vayeate Marquise
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2014.03.31 05:24:00 -
[135] - Quote
what would you say to the people who argue you only got elected in the first place because you had a coalition behind you where people thoughtlessly pulled the slot by your name because their leadership told them to? Problem? ~.~ |

mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3266
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Posted - 2014.03.31 06:30:00 -
[136] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Fair enough, with that particular implementation I was suggesting I was building off your comment in your previous talk about moving moon goo to an incursion type mechanic. So the gating mechanic would be the fact that these sites weren't always available. I.E. for Null they would be in addition to the standard industrial index sites, not an 'always on' effect.
Agree that there does need to be some kind of supply limitation though to avoid T2 being almost as cheap as T1
Ah, misunderstood. Might not be enough even then though. Null mining sites respawn immediately after being mined out in full so if we suddenly went and made them randomly super valuable, you'd see mining blitzes to get as much as possible during the uptime. Could fix that, which opens up the question "If an eventual goal is reducing reliance in nullsec on imported minerals, will what you can get on limited-respawn sites be enough?" and from there "do we care if it's enough, maybe careful shepherding and harvesting of available supply ahead of time creates interesting scenarios" and so on and so forth. Not necessarily going to chase that rabbit hole just now, I've gotta get to sleep.
Vayeate Marquise wrote:what would you say to the people who argue you only got elected in the first place because you had a coalition behind you where people thoughtlessly pulled the slot by your name because their leadership told them to?
Man, so funny thing I was just playing with the numbers from last year's election and so have some statistics I culled from that handy to answer this!
I'd could say say "Well, approximately 6000 out of the 14,500 voters who listed me somewhere as a preference were not of my bloc, nor the opposing bloc with whom we traded votes, and of those 6000, 500 listed me first, 700 listed me second, 870 listed me third and another 630 listed me fourth. That means almost half of my non-bloc support thought pretty highly of me, and I hope they continue to support me this year.
Or instead, I could go "Well, if you download last year's ballot and delete my name from all the obvious bloc tickets I'd come up about 722 votes short and would be eliminated in the final round. That's a respectable showing in its own right that conveniently makes the laughable assumption that I wouldn't have done anything else different if I'd known I was running without the support of my bloc, such as simply campaigning harder or better yet networking in with the trebor bloc that cast literally half the votes in the election. Just three percent of those voters being convinced to list me as their first preference instead of who they had listed would cut it, not all that high a bar at all. Also happens to ignore the fact that bloc or not there's large of people doing what they please, often to support an "unofficial" bloc candidate (which I'd have been) from their own corp or alliance over the "designated" list, which is why out of 7500 or so CFC votes over 2000 of them favored one of the two 'unofficial' candidates in place of the three designees."
I suppose I could summarize that by saying "Sorry, anime loving person sheltering themselves behind what appears to be a charmingly anonymous and lightly used posting alt of indiscernible orgins, but my odds as an independent would have been damn good." Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |

Vayeate Marquise
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2014.04.01 01:04:00 -
[137] - Quote
actually i voted for you last time but i wanted to know because a lot of people have been saying that.
didnt expect such a defensive reaction Problem? ~.~ |

mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3271
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Posted - 2014.04.01 01:15:00 -
[138] - Quote
Vayeate Marquise wrote:actually i voted for you last time but i wanted to know because a lot of people have been saying that.
didnt expect such a defensive reaction
Sorry. In my defense, my experience has been that someone asking that type of question tends to be coming from the "grr goon" camp, which tends to dictate the flavor of response I default to. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |

Vayeate Marquise
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2014.04.01 03:26:00 -
[139] - Quote
thats just the wording that was used in a debate i was having with some peers in my corp. yea this is an alt but thats because im a private person. so yea. Problem? ~.~ |

Elmnt80
Life. Universe. Everything. Clockwork Pineapple
14
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Posted - 2014.04.04 02:33:00 -
[140] - Quote
Hello.
Currently the Serpentis are the only pirate faction in the game that don't have a rated 6/10 and 9/10 DED complex available to be run. These sites have been on the "coming soon" list for quite a few years, but no further news or information has been released. Would you be willing to request that CCP introduce these sites to the game so that areas like syndicate that rely on running sites as the main form of income can continue to grow and prosper? |
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mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3310
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Posted - 2014.04.04 02:37:00 -
[141] - Quote
Elmnt80 wrote:Hello.
Currently the Serpentis are the only pirate faction in the game that don't have a rated 6/10 and 9/10 DED complex available to be run. These sites have been on the "coming soon" list for quite a few years, but no further news or information has been released. Would you be willing to request that CCP introduce these sites to the game so that areas like syndicate that rely on running sites as the main form of income can continue to grow and prosper?
I literally just copy/pasted this into the skype channel of the appropriate team, which I think should answer your question. 
Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |

Jayne Fillon
322
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Posted - 2014.04.04 02:40:00 -
[142] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Elmnt80 wrote:Hello.
Currently the Serpentis are the only pirate faction in the game that don't have a rated 6/10 and 9/10 DED complex available to be run. These sites have been on the "coming soon" list for quite a few years, but no further news or information has been released. Would you be willing to request that CCP introduce these sites to the game so that areas like syndicate that rely on running sites as the main form of income can continue to grow and prosper? I literally just copy/pasted this into the skype channel of the appropriate team, which I think should answer your question.  That's cheating.
Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI. |

mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3310
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Posted - 2014.04.04 02:53:00 -
[143] - Quote
Jayne Fillon wrote:mynnna wrote:Elmnt80 wrote:Hello.
Currently the Serpentis are the only pirate faction in the game that don't have a rated 6/10 and 9/10 DED complex available to be run. These sites have been on the "coming soon" list for quite a few years, but no further news or information has been released. Would you be willing to request that CCP introduce these sites to the game so that areas like syndicate that rely on running sites as the main form of income can continue to grow and prosper? I literally just copy/pasted this into the skype channel of the appropriate team, which I think should answer your question.  That's cheating. He only asked if I'd be willing, no specification was made as to when.  Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
1521

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Posted - 2014.04.04 09:58:00 -
[144] - Quote
Mynnna pointed me to this thread and I agree, we need to complete the DED work and it is on our backlog, we haven't forgotten about it I just can't give you a time frame right now. CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14958
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Posted - 2014.04.04 10:14:00 -
[145] - Quote
Looks like cheating works pretty well 
1 Kings 12:11
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Jayne Fillon
324
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Posted - 2014.04.04 10:51:00 -
[146] - Quote
Well, as the old saying goes.... if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin' Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI. |

Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
3426
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Posted - 2014.04.04 12:45:00 -
[147] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Mynnna pointed me to this thread and I agree, we need to complete the DED work and it is on our backlog, we haven't forgotten about it I just can't give you a time frame right now. I for one protest this blatant demonstration of dev favoritism towards a leading member of the nullsec cabal!
Have I taught you folks nothing? Were you all asleep during my summit presentation on plausible deniability?
Like any honest politician, "My door is always open, and my hand is always out" |

Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
135
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Posted - 2014.04.04 14:00:00 -
[148] - Quote
Elmnt80 is manipulating LUE who is manipulating Clockwork Pineapple who is manipulating GoonWaffe who is manipulating the CSM who is manipulating the devs who are manipulating the game to secure us unrivalled access to A-type Corelum modules it's beautiful oh **** did I say that out loud? |

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1791
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Posted - 2014.04.04 16:37:00 -
[149] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:grr goons, you'll probably be my top vote again this year though. glad to see you're running again to be honest.
dude i did not know i was runing for CSM There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

Elmnt80
Life. Universe. Everything. Clockwork Pineapple
15
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Posted - 2014.04.04 17:47:00 -
[150] - Quote
I was expecting to find more out about the CSM members and how much/if they'd care if there was a certain region of space (No matter if its serpentis, angel, blood raider, high, null, wh or low) with obvious content missing or some other glaring omission. Never expected to wind up with CCP seeing it. Horray, the CSM works. |
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