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Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Umbrarum Paradisi
299
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Posted - 2014.02.25 04:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Drones launched by this ship will not be targeted by sleeper drones.
Think about it- the Zephyr isn't targeted at all- wouldn't a drone boat designed to be in wormholes need something like this? If it doesn't get a covert ops cloak, at least give it this and more capacitor- just an idea I thought of quickly.
This wouldn't affect its normal PVP or other abilities, just make it useful against sleepers (it was designed for wormholes).
What do you think? "A City made of Wood is built in the forest; A City made of Stone is built in the mountains; But a City made of Dreams....is built in heaven."
-Jovian Proverb-á |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
6311
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Posted - 2014.02.25 05:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think Zephyr not being attacked by sleepers is ok, since it's not capable of harming them in return. On the other hand it seems ludicrous, that sleepers wouldn't respond to targets shooting at them. |
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Umbrarum Paradisi
299
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Posted - 2014.02.25 05:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Like I said, it was an idea- and they'd still all shoot the Nestor, just not its drones, so it's not like it'd be invincible or anything. "A City made of Wood is built in the forest; A City made of Stone is built in the mountains; But a City made of Dreams....is built in heaven."
-Jovian Proverb-á |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2512
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Posted - 2014.02.25 09:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
This idea needs refinement.
When the paired, RR buddy AFK Nestors drop their enhanced drones, they should become immobile and light a warpable beacon in space just like a cyno. This should bring the added excitement that AFK drone PVE requires. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruitng members for lowsec PvP operations. Newbie friendly, free T1 frigate and dessy hangar, solo tutoring and PvP classes for new members. Join our in game channel 'weflyrifters' and speak to a recruiter today. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
716
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Posted - 2014.02.25 09:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:I think Zephyr not being attacked by sleepers is ok, since it's not capable of harming them in return. On the other hand it seems ludicrous, that sleepers wouldn't respond to targets shooting at them. I agree that from a realism point of view this suggestion is a bit silly.
However, from a gameplay point of view it isn't. In fact, it seems to me like quite a good idea.
If you're AFKing in a pair of Nestors in a WH you deserve to lose them. I can't see how this would make them overpowered in PvE. They're expensive ships and need a schtick. I don't see how this would alter them in any way outside of a WH. Non-sleeper rats can target the drones. In a WH all it does is mean that it doesn't bleed drones. All this does is fullfil the specified role as long range exploration vessel.
+1 from me. |
Seliah
0mega.
30
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Posted - 2014.02.25 09:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aside from the fact that that kind of bonus would be hard to justify (as in why would sleepers not shoot drones ?) and that it promotes a more passive (afk) gameplay, I don't like the idea of giving a ship such a specific bonus. It's like painting "USE ME TO PVE IN WH, IM CRAP AT EVERYTHING ELSE" in red on the hull of the ship. I'd rather see ideas to make the Nestor a powerful and versatile ship suited for long deployments and exploration, rather than ideas trying to bury this ship into one boring niche role. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
716
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Posted - 2014.02.25 10:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Seliah wrote:Aside from the fact that [snipped] it promotes a more passive (afk) gameplay [snipped] I don't think it's pertinent to discuss this in regards to AFK play. If someone decides to AFK sites in a WH they won't have their Nestor for long. Personally, I'm perfectly happy with people thinking they can AFK WH sites with a Nestor. It's an erroneous perspective which will be quickly altered if people do actually start doing it.
Considering the proposal isn't for normal space rats to ignore the drones it isn't any more AFK than a Domi, really.
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Seliah
0mega.
30
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Posted - 2014.02.25 10:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:Seliah wrote:Aside from the fact that [snipped] it promotes a more passive (afk) gameplay [snipped] I don't think it's pertinent to discuss this in regards to AFK play. If someone decides to AFK sites in a WH they won't have their Nestor for long. Personally, I'm perfectly happy with people thinking they can AFK WH sites with a Nestor. It's an erroneous perspective which will be quickly altered if people do actually start doing it.
Alright, still doesn't invalidate the other points I made in my reply though. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
716
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Posted - 2014.02.25 11:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Seliah wrote:Alright, still doesn't invalidate the other points I made in my reply though. Very true.
Seliah wrote: Aside from the fact that that kind of bonus would be hard to justify (as in why would sleepers not shoot drones ?) [snipped],... Presumably they don't shoot Zephyrs because they have some method of hiding from sleepers. I don't know the lore behind it. Any kind of lore can be created to explain why the Nestor's drones can't be seen by sleepers, even when they're shooting at one. Considering we have systems that can repair armour of another ship at more than 70km range seems rather stupid too, wouldn't you say? There are a lot of stupid, unrealistic things in the game already which are there for game play reasons, not realism or logical reasons. I don't see why this should be any different.
Seliah wrote:...I don't like the idea of giving a ship such a specific bonus. It's like painting "USE ME TO PVE IN WH, IM CRAP AT EVERYTHING ELSE" in red on the hull of the ship. I'd rather see ideas to make the Nestor a powerful and versatile ship suited for long deployments and exploration, rather than ideas trying to bury this ship into one boring niche role. I agree, to a point. It is basically saying that the Nestor's primary role is a PVE role. But then, it's not like the Nestor would be the only ship with that primary role. The Marauders are quite obviously aimed at the solo PVE crowd. Some ships are better for PVE, some are better for PVE and some can be as easily put to one as the other. At the moment, the Nestor isn't exactly a very good PVP ship. I don't see this change altering that in any way. All it does is make it more viable in wormhole PVE, something it's intended to be good at but due to the extreme drone aggression from sleepers it currently isn't.
The OP isn't suggesting removing it's logi bonuses. It still has as viable a role in PvP as it does now.
I'm not saying this is the "Oh my god! This makes the Nestor perfect" change by any means. For me though, it's the best suggestion I've read so far at a subtle change that simply makes it better at one of it's suggested roles without altering the PvP side or the non-exploratory roles at all. |
Seliah
0mega.
30
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Posted - 2014.02.25 11:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tchulen wrote: It is basically saying that the Nestor's primary role is a PVE role. But then, it's not like the Nestor would be the only ship with that primary role. The Marauders are quite obviously aimed at the solo PVE crowd. Some ships are better for PVE, some are better for PVE and some can be as easily put to one as the other.
That's not my point, really. Marauders are good at PVE because they have certain kind of bonuses that are well suited for PVE. They can also be used in PVP, MJD + Bastion offers quite a lot of options. Nowhere it is written that all of this is PVE-specific. A drone bonus vs Sleepers is completely PVE-specific, there's no other options.
And yes, sure, the marauders also have a tractor beam bonus, but it's not as important as saying "your drones are immune to sleepers" when it comes to defining a ship's role based on its bonuses.
Tchulen wrote: At the moment, the Nestor isn't exactly a very good PVP ship. I don't see this change altering that in any way. All it does is make it more viable in wormhole PVE, something it's intended to be good at but due to the extreme drone aggression from sleepers it currently isn't.
Well then maybe finding ideas that will improve the Nestor as both a PVE and PVP ship would be a good option, rather than just say "ok its still crap at PVP, let's make it ok at PVE".
Again, the SOE ships are supposed to be versatile, so they should provide a very open set of bonuses that allow players to make whatever they want out of it. |
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Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
716
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Posted - 2014.02.25 11:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Well, I agree with you on your last statement. It would be nice if the Nestor wasn't total pants at PVP and PVE. It kind of is at the moment. There are always better/cheaper options than the Nestor for all of it's roles.
I guess I'll just have to wait until someone comes up with a solution that pleases the majority. I'm not sure that's even possible with this ship though as it has too many possible roles. Each solution tends to lend to one role more than others and so will never be accepted by the majority. I suspect this ship will continue to be pants for some time yet.
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Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Umbrarum Paradisi
300
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Posted - 2014.02.25 13:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Glad to see that there's some interest here
To add a few points and thoughts:
- It would also make sense to boost cap and rr range/power - Alternatively, remove the current rr bonuses and give it strong bonuses to Armor repair drones. - to explain the sleepers not being able to target its drones, it could have "specialized subsystems" installed that were created using sleeper tech and/or a similar system to the zephyr's. This is just for a lore explanation.
I'm adding these to the OP "A City made of Wood is built in the forest; A City made of Stone is built in the mountains; But a City made of Dreams....is built in heaven."
-Jovian Proverb-á |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
718
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Posted - 2014.02.25 14:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:- It would also make sense to boost cap and rr range/power The Nestor is the only ship with a bonus to RR amount, as far as I know, and it's already had a 100% bonus to RR range so not sure this would be a good idea. More of a bonus to amount and it might well become the defacto repping ship for small to medium fleets. Can you imagine 4 or 5 of these with all high slots having large remote reps in surrounded by specialist fit Basilisks feeding them cap whilst creating loads of each other? Yeah, not sure increasing it's logi capabilities is a good plan.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:- Alternatively, remove the current rr bonuses and give it strong bonuses to Armor repair drones. Again, not sure about this. Unless it had an extremely high bonus it wouldn't be worth anywhere near the current RR bonus. Mind you, I suppose if it's role was to change to laser dps this might work. Quite a role change though.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:- to explain the sleepers not being able to target its drones, it could have "specialized subsystems" installed that were created using sleeper tech and/or a similar system to the zephyr's. This is just for a lore explanation. Yeah, this is pretty much what I was thinking. |
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Umbrarum Paradisi
300
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Posted - 2014.02.25 14:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:- Alternatively, remove the current rr bonuses and give it strong bonuses to Armor repair drones. Again, not sure about this. Unless it had an extremely high bonus it wouldn't be worth anywhere near the current RR bonus. Mind you, I suppose if it's role was to change to laser dps this might work. Quite a role change though. I was imagining that a Nestor using logi, if it had drone bonuses for logi drones, would have to decide between heavy dps or heavy logi- it shouldn't be able to do both impressively at the same time.
I added some stats to the OP. "A City made of Wood is built in the forest; A City made of Stone is built in the mountains; But a City made of Dreams....is built in heaven."
-Jovian Proverb-á |
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