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Androgen Deathnell
Nova Sidera
0
   |
Posted - 2014.03.01 06:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok so this may sound uninteresting to most of you null sec residents out there but until i have the skills i want under my belt i refuse to move out there. We had a spy recently enter our mining corporation and he hit us at a good time because the ceo and orca runners were out leaving their orcas vulnerable so that we can get the usual mining boosts. He destroyed an orca and started demanding ransom no one gave him any because so far hes got no real power because we believe we can still kick him. However i would like to learn from this experience. He joined the corp allowing him to attack us without interference from concord, using a gnosis a logi ship and a sniper ship as back up he managed to kill people without concord interference only having the sniper as emergency backup. The logi ship could not be attacked as it was not considered part of the fight having only provided support for him and not direct fire. What might be a good counter for this type of strategy? Also before you give the typical response i would prefer a combat strategy not a "Dont let people with strange employment historys or brand new toons in" type advice because i wasnt the ceo who allowed him in. |
Havoc Zealot
Sky Fighters
177
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 06:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Full Api
http://ridetheclown.com/eveapi/audit.php
Boom, thank me in sexual favors |
Androgen Deathnell
Nova Sidera
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 06:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
yea i understand that they could of used an api search background check type techniques to stop him from ever getting in im talking about is there a counter to the logi ship backed corp member to corp member gank and a sniper as backup |
Androgen Deathnell
Nova Sidera
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 06:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
maybe a logi ship backed response? but that seems too simple for eve
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Nors Phlebas Sabelhpsron
The Red Circle Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 10:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
I don't do hisec so maybe I'm wrong, but my understanding is that by helping someone who's in a Limited Engagement, the Logi ship should get a Suspect flag, meaning that he's actually a legal target for not just your corp but everyone.
Is that not right? |
Androgen Deathnell
Nova Sidera
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 11:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
No i checked the kill mails and he is the only person listed on them despite the fact a logi ship supported him during the engagement
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
227
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 12:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maybe use gank tactics on the logi to remove it and have tackle ready for the others? |
Alice Ituin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
59
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 13:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Just bring in some Tornados. Logi can't save you from alpha. |
Nors Phlebas Sabelhpsron
The Red Circle Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 15:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Androgen Deathnell wrote:No i checked the kill mails and he is the only person listed on them despite the fact a logi ship supported him during the engagement
This doesn't stop them being engageable. As far as I know any logistics ship either repping or providing capacitor to a target that's in a Limited Engagement (I.E. engaged in PvP) that they're not originally part of gains a Suspect flag. This means that by repping the guy shooting you, they become a legally engageable target to everybody. They don't actually have to directly attack anyone.
You guys could just take the logi ship down. |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
56
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 21:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Androgen Deathnell wrote:Ok so this may sound uninteresting to most of you null sec residents out there but until i have the skills i want under my belt i refuse to move out there. We had a spy recently enter our mining corporation and he hit us at a good time because the ceo and orca runners were out leaving their orcas vulnerable so that we can get the usual mining boosts. He destroyed an orca and started demanding ransom no one gave him any because so far hes got no real power because we believe we can still kick him. However i would like to learn from this experience. He joined the corp allowing him to attack us without interference from concord, using a gnosis a logi ship and a sniper ship as back up he managed to kill people without concord interference only having the sniper as emergency backup. The logi ship could not be attacked as it was not considered part of the fight having only provided support for him and not direct fire. What might be a good counter for this type of strategy? Also before you give the typical response i would prefer a combat strategy not a "Dont let people with strange employment historys or brand new toons in" type advice because i wasnt the ceo who allowed him in.
this fighting has become popular some time ago, its the carebear level for gankers to come in corp and gank everyone with ransom in hopes of either having a nice kb or leaving with a nice sum of isk.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mine" -Dr. Smith |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
117
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 07:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nors Phlebas Sabelhpsron wrote:Androgen Deathnell wrote:No i checked the kill mails and he is the only person listed on them despite the fact a logi ship supported him during the engagement
This doesn't stop them being engageable. As far as I know any logistics ship either repping or providing capacitor to a target that's in a Limited Engagement (I.E. engaged in PvP) that they're not originally part of gains a Suspect flag. This means that by repping the guy shooting you, they become a legally engageable target to everybody. They don't actually have to directly attack anyone. You guys could just take the logi ship down.
"As far as I know" doesn't make you any less wrong. Logi does not get flagged for awoxes.
@OP: Stop being bad at PVP. Take the engagement like any other where you'd be fighting off a single combat ship + 1 or more ranged logi. |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1300
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 13:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Androgen Deathnell wrote:No i checked the kill mails and he is the only person listed on them despite the fact a logi ship supported him during the engagement
logistics ships aren't shown on killmails.
you should have seen him suspect (blinking yellow skull) while he was supported your offender.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Batelle
HOMELE55
2034
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 16:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nors Phlebas Sabelhpsron wrote:I don't do hisec so maybe I'm wrong, but my understanding is that by helping someone who's in a Limited Engagement, the Logi ship should get a Suspect flag, meaning that he's actually a legal target for not just your corp but everyone.
Is that not right?
Nors Phlebas Sabelhpsron wrote:Androgen Deathnell wrote:No i checked the kill mails and he is the only person listed on them despite the fact a logi ship supported him during the engagement
This doesn't stop them being engageable. As far as I know any logistics ship either repping or providing capacitor to a target that's in a Limited Engagement (I.E. engaged in PvP) that they're not originally part of gains a Suspect flag. This means that by repping the guy shooting you, they become a legally engageable target to everybody. They don't actually have to directly attack anyone. You guys could just take the logi ship down.
Shooting a corp-member does not start a limited engagement, thus the logi does not become a suspect. They cannot take it down without concord intervention.
"CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Ailwynn
Office Of Tactical And Strategic Services
Failed-Diplomacy
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 08:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Androgen Deathnell wrote:Ok so this may sound uninteresting to most of you null sec residents out there but until i have the skills i want under my belt i refuse to move out there. We had a spy recently enter our mining corporation and he hit us at a good time because the ceo and orca runners were out leaving their orcas vulnerable so that we can get the usual mining boosts. He destroyed an orca and started demanding ransom no one gave him any because so far hes got no real power because we believe we can still kick him. However i would like to learn from this experience. He joined the corp allowing him to attack us without interference from concord, using a gnosis a logi ship and a sniper ship as back up he managed to kill people without concord interference only having the sniper as emergency backup. The logi ship could not be attacked as it was not considered part of the fight having only provided support for him and not direct fire. What might be a good counter for this type of strategy? Also before you give the typical response i would prefer a combat strategy not a "Dont let people with strange employment historys or brand new toons in" type advice because i wasnt the ceo who allowed him in.
COntact me in-game and we can have a chat to your benefit :-) |
Froggy Storm
The Praxis Initiative
Gentlemen's Agreement
196
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 15:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
I may have missed it in there, but one strat for dealing with neutral logi is a neutral bumper. A stabber is a cheap easy option. Push the logi out of range while keeping pressure on the target. Also (as stated) a couple logi frigs go a long long way. |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
122
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 22:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Froggy Storm wrote:I may have missed it in there, but one strat for dealing with neutral logi is a neutral bumper. A stabber is a cheap easy option. Push the logi out of range while keeping pressure on the target. Also (as stated) a couple logi frigs go a long long way.
You plan to bump an orbiting logi to more than 60km away?
Good luck with that |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
Advent of Fate
777
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 12:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Androgen Deathnell wrote:No i checked the kill mails and he is the only person listed on them despite the fact a logi ship supported him during the engagement
logistics ships aren't shown on killmails. you should have seen him suspect (blinking yellow skull) while he was supported your offender.
This is wrong.
awoxers get no suspect flag so neutral logi get none either.
awoxers get no limited engagement timer (as shooting corpmates is always allowed) so neutral logi gets none either.
logi inherit flags from people they rep.
awoxers get no flags that allow neutral logi to be shot.
prevention is better than cure but OP doesn't like the effort involved in that.
alpha is thus they key (nadoes). if u bring more dps (non alpha) he will bring more logi (via BU or MB channels).
doesn't matter anyway as by the time you organise a meaningful response and stop trickling in 1 ship at a time to get slaughtered he will have killed the orca/ mining barges/ deadspace fit mission ship anyway.
Money at its root is a form of rationing.
When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
66
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 18:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Many people (including renowned awoxers) think neutral logis that can't be legally attacked while repping an awoxer is a strange game mechanic that should probably be changed sooner or later.
Still, if it's there you can use it yourself.
Temporarily kick a logi-capable pilot from corp and get him to rep you and your corpmates.
You may not break the awoxer's tank but at least you'll survive more yourself.
If you're determined to kill the awoxer at all costs, you're best bet may be ECMing his logi. ECM ship will get concorded, but you can easily make it ultra-cheap and if you manage to land a jam on the logi, the awoxer won't get reps for 20 seconds + relock time even if the ECM ship has already gone boom. |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 18:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
Androgen Deathnell wrote:maybe a logi ship backed response? but that seems too simple for eve
Tell your corp members to train into a basically fitted T1 Scythe, have everyone keep one in their hangar, and fit shield hardeners to their mining ships. A handful of dudes in will be able to keep themselves and any barges alive pretty much indefinitely against a lone aggressor or even a small group. Also have one or two dudes in ECM ships to break his locks. Your plan is just to keep everyone alive while his victims align to a station and then warp out as soon as jams land and he loses tackle. Actually killing the awoxer will be significantly harder and will probably just mean brute forcing him in basic combat hulls to overpower his reps, but your focus is primarily just on not getting all your Orcas and Hulks blown up.
I'm going to assume that most of your guys have basically no PvP experience, so maybe try running a few Awox drills for practice. Have one of your more combat experienced players take the role of a bad guy and 'gank' one of your Orcas. You can also have him try switching targets around your scythes if they get too close so your players can learn the basics of following broadcasts and anchoring up. A quick, organized response, even among players with only basic training, is a lot more likely to save an Orca than a bunch of panicking carebears with no plan and no combat ships.
That said, prevention is still the best answer. The awoxer has the advantage of surprise, timing, and combat experience. An Orca should be tanky enough to live if you have a reasonably quick response (and you have a Damage Control fitted instead of going max cargo), but there is no way a barge is going to survive the time it takes everyone to warp to a station and back. |
Batelle
HOMELE55
2214
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 18:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Many people (including renowned awoxers) think neutral logis that can't be legally attacked while repping an awoxer is a strange game mechanic that should probably be changed sooner or later.
I wouldn't hold my breath. It would require invoking crimewatch in some form for all kinds of corp-on-corp, non-awoxing activities.
"CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate
Sicarius Draconis
332
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 20:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Don't fight him solo. Gang up on him and bring your own logi. His "sniper" ship ain't much of a backup, as if it isn't in your corp it will get concorded if it fires on one of you.
So basically, bait him, tackle him, warp in the rest to kill him.
Do not do any of the above on a station, as he will most likely dock. Even if he is engaged, he only has to survive a minute after he de-aggresses, and I'm sure his logi can do that. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
3669
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 21:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
Your options:
GÖª Bring an out of corp logistics ship to rep the ships he is attacking. He, too, will not be able to legally attack your out-of-corp logi ship, so long as it doesn't go suspect. This is the tactic he was using. Hell, have someone instantly drop corp if you need to, that way they can provide the "out of corp" logistics.
GÖª Bring an in-corp jamming ship, and jam him out anytime he comes on grid. Then warp people to safety, or better yet, have them all gang up and gank him. |
Tengu Grib
Maniacal Laughter Ltd.
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 18:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
Androgen Deathnell wrote:yea i understand that they could of used an api search background check type techniques to stop him from ever getting in im talking about is there a counter to the logi ship backed corp member to corp member gank and a sniper as backup
counter his neutral logi with your own neutral logi, even a corp member dropping corp just before the fight will work fine. Other than that just need more dps to overcome the logi. Or a bumper and try to bump the logi away from him. However both those things are very difficult to setup and if you aren't expecting it, you're unlikely to get it to the fight in time to save anyone. Soooo... basically nothing you can do really.
Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. |
Tengu Grib
Maniacal Laughter Ltd.
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 19:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Your options:
GÖª Bring an in-corp jamming ship, and jam him out anytime he comes on grid. Then warp people to safety, or better yet, have them all gang up and gank him.
The ecm is a good idea. sure you might not be able to kill him, but if he can't target anyone you won't lose anybody. Even just a griffin can probably accomplish this.
Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. |
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