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Estoramus
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Posted - 2006.04.20 09:14:00 -
[1]
Ok so to some this may be a silly question but i have to ask.
Active shield hardeners do 50%.
does this mean that if you have 0% res it will give 50%, but if you have 50% res base, you will get an extra 25% from the hardener (50% of 50 is 25)???
Also, the Invuln Shield hardeners, do they give you a penalty if you already have a normal type on (EM, Therm....)???
How much of a penalty?
Just trying to work something and i need this confirmed before i continue.
Thanks guys.
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SonShadowCat
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Posted - 2006.04.20 09:18:00 -
[2]
Yes, a 50% hardner will give you 50% if your base is 0. I don't know the exact formula for stacking penalties...
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M3ta7h3ad
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Posted - 2006.04.20 09:41:00 -
[3]
Edited by: M3ta7h3ad on 20/04/2006 09:41:41
I dont think they suffer from stacking penalties, as the way that they work is that the higher the resistance is in the first place, you get less returns from running a hardner anyway, so there arent stacking penalties in play, its just the way they work. :)
If you had 0 in the start... with 3 active hardners you'll get: 50(active1) + 25(active2) + 12.5(active3) = 87.5 % resists.
If you had 30% from a passive, then added 2 active hardners you'd get: 30% (passive)+ 35%(1st active) + 17.5(2nd active) = 82.5% resists.
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If you kill all the wolves, your gonna end up with a crapload of bunnies, and by bunnies I mean stupid people
Eve & Linux Woot! |
Callistus
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Posted - 2006.04.20 09:49:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Callistus on 20/04/2006 09:54:16
I'm pretty sure there is a stacking penalty, for one because it says so in the item description, and also because if there wasn't you could easily get insanely high resists as shown above.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
M3ta7h3ad
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Posted - 2006.04.20 09:52:00 -
[5]
well... the thing is I think the stacking penalty mentioned is just the way it works.
They only add 50% of remaining resist maybe. Dah! I need to fire up eve and have a play about. :|
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If you kill all the wolves, your gonna end up with a crapload of bunnies, and by bunnies I mean stupid people
Eve & Linux Woot! |
Ernest Graefenberg
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Posted - 2006.04.20 09:53:00 -
[6]
They have the same stacking penaltys as every other module with a comment remarking it in the description.
So for any attribute, the largest bonus will take effect with a *1.0 multiplier, the second with roughly 0.9 and the third with roughly 0.75 (figures from memory, very ballpark). After that its the pits. It doesn't matter wether you're active or passive hardenering for this rule to apply or wether you're using invul fields or single resistance hardeners.
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.04.20 09:55:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 20/04/2006 09:55:26
 Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
They have the same stacking penaltys as every other module with a comment remarking it in the description.
So for any attribute, the largest bonus will take effect with a *1.0 multiplier, the second with roughly 0.9 and the third with roughly 0.75 (figures from memory, very ballpark). After that its the pits. It doesn't matter wether you're active or passive hardenering for this rule to apply or wether you're using invul fields or single resistance hardeners.
I did hear you could get around this by using actives and passives and adaptives in one setup. I better test it out.
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Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour
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Estoramus
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:00:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Estoramus on 20/04/2006 10:02:38
right so i have to limit the effect of each mod by 50%? |
Ernest Graefenberg
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:01:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 20/04/2006 10:01:43
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 20/04/2006 09:55:26
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
They have the same stacking penaltys as every other module with a comment remarking it in the description.
So for any attribute, the largest bonus will take effect with a *1.0 multiplier, the second with roughly 0.9 and the third with roughly 0.75 (figures from memory, very ballpark). After that its the pits. It doesn't matter wether you're active or passive hardenering for this rule to apply or wether you're using invul fields or single resistance hardeners.
I did hear you could get around this by using actives and passives and adaptives in one setup. I better test it out.
No. Its simply ordered from highest to lowest according to your current resists - ie if you have an active offline and 2 EAN IIs, its 20/20/5 and 55/20/20 while online for the stacking penalty order.
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Callistus
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:02:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Callistus on 20/04/2006 10:05:11
(Just to clear up some confusion) The percentage modifier of armor hardeners affects not the resistance already present, but the section of unresisted hp. So for example if I have a base 10% explosive resist on my ships armor, then fitting a 32.5% passive hardener gives me a 39.25% explosive resist as the 32.5% works negatively on the 90% of unresisted armor (hence the stats for module in the database is actually shown to have a negative attribute)
90*0.325=29.25
29.25+10=39.25
I imagine then that the usualy stacking formula then applies to this.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
M3ta7h3ad
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:07:00 -
[11]
Edited by: M3ta7h3ad on 20/04/2006 10:10:47
Edited by: M3ta7h3ad on 20/04/2006 10:10:20
That would be exactly how I described how they work..
actives:
50 of 100 = 50
50 of 50(whats left) = 25
50 of 25(whats left) = 12.5
50 of 12.5(whats left) = 6.25
you then add the resists together 50 + 25 + 12.5 + 6.25
if I had a base resist of 20...
50 of 80 = 40
50 of 40(whats left) = 20
50 of 20(whats left) = 10
50 of 10(whats left) = 5
you'd then add the resists together 20(base) + 40 + 20 + 10 + 5
Edit: fwiw... I did just check it, does appear to have a mysterious stacking penalty going on. :(
Doh. Also... what skills affect shield resists? as far as I know I havent trained any resist skills, only (shield operation) hitpoints and tactical shield manip, as I appear to have some passive resists going on beyond the 1% passive that ahhh.. I have a damage control fitted, that explains it. :D
clicky
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If you kill all the wolves, your gonna end up with a crapload of bunnies, and by bunnies I mean stupid people
Eve & Linux Woot! |
glorious emotion
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:09:00 -
[12]
Edited by: glorious emotion on 20/04/2006 10:10:13
Edited by: glorious emotion on 20/04/2006 10:09:38
You might want to have a look at Nyphur's Excel spreadsheet on eve-tanking.com.
There are some small bugs with windows XP and this spreadsheet but once you get your head round it it's very useful 
Which PA character are you? |
Estoramus
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:15:00 -
[13]
These penalties and Invuln Fields... do they effect the entire mod or just the damage type?
So say...
EM 30
Exp 30
Kin 30
Therm 30
with a Therm Active on the Invuln would be...
Em 30
Exp 30
Kin 30
Therm 15
Or does the whole mod drop to
Em 15
Exp 15
Kin 15
Therm 15
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Chewan Mesa
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:28:00 -
[14]
There is a stacking penalty afaik, however if you fit the 2nd 50% hardener, the dmg you take is still halfed.
I suck at maths, so someone else with real skills for this should go into details :) Always keep forgetting the exact numbers from various posts.
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M3ta7h3ad
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Posted - 2006.04.20 10:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: glorious emotion
Edited by: glorious emotion on 20/04/2006 10:10:13
Edited by: glorious emotion on 20/04/2006 10:09:38
You might want to have a look at Nyphur's Excel spreadsheet on eve-tanking.com.
There are some small bugs with windows XP and this spreadsheet but once you get your head round it it's very useful
Is that spreadsheet full of the correct values?!
I am tanking NPC's with an EM and therm tank, when in fact its telling me that the lasering BS's (and they are using lasers) deal 14 explosive, and 12 kinetic damage before damage mods :|
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If you kill all the wolves, your gonna end up with a crapload of bunnies, and by bunnies I mean stupid people
Eve & Linux Woot! |
Ernest Graefenberg
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Posted - 2006.04.20 11:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Estoramus
These penalties and Invuln Fields... do they effect the entire mod or just the damage type?
So say...
EM 30
Exp 30
Kin 30
Therm 30
with a Therm Active on the Invuln would be...
Em 30
Exp 30
Kin 30
Therm 15
Or does the whole mod drop to
Em 15
Exp 15
Kin 15
Therm 15
Nope, it goes by resistance, not whole modules. Also damage controls don't interact with this at all, for the record.
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Estoramus
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Posted - 2006.04.20 11:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
Nope, it goes by resistance, not whole modules. Also damage controls don't interact with this at all, for the record.
Thanks |
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