Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Evei Shard
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.11 21:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
This originally was a reply in this thread: Wormhole POS setup NOOB, but the questions seemed a bit off topic.
First, is there a well written starters guide on getting started in wh space?
I've learned quite a bit by poking around there, but never stayed long enough for the hole I entered through to close.
One player mentioned living out of a GSC in a C1 Others have mentioned using a small or medium tower in a C1
Obviously, "living in a wormhole" means, as it suggests, staying there longer than the wormhole you came through will stay open. From what I've seen from k-space, wormhole corps are basically stuck until an exit opens that they can utilize (i.e. a high-sec exit), at which point you have to mobilize everyone you can get online to move product in and out before the exit collapses.
This seems reasonable if you are well established, but they all have to start somewhere.
What sort of isk investment are you looking at for a small tower and the related modules needed to put it up? What type of ships can newer people start out with (Evemon says I'm almost a year out from flying something like a Loki)? Are sleepers the only option for making isk if you can't mine grav belts while there?
I have quite a few other questions, but again a well written guide would be nice if anyone has a link.
Thanks |
Skorpynekomimi
E.A.D Alliance Omega Vector
10
|
Posted - 2011.11.11 22:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
http://fiercewebs.com/arcdragon/joomla/index.php/the-guide#A66
Best one I've got. |
Mal Nina
The Red Circle Inc.
10
|
Posted - 2011.11.11 22:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Expect to die. That is rule one.
But there is lots to do in WH space, except; ICE mine and moon goo extract.
There are a number of guides, just search the internet.
And be prepared to die. Someone is watching you, you are not paranoid. Live in WH space long enough and you will be... because tehy are watching!
|
Kyros Xero
Xuronautics
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.11 22:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
There are a couple very comprehensive guides out. ArcDragon's I like a lot, and this one came out fairly recently:
The Complete Unknown
I would spitball Small Tower costs as: Small Tower: 60m POS Arrays: 80-120m Fuel: 100-120m / month
The good news is unless you have the misfortune to be sieged, Towers and POS arrays hold their value very well and can be re-used if you ever feel the need to upgrade the tower. |
Evei Shard
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.11 22:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mal Nina wrote:Expect to die. That is rule one.
Been there, done that already. :)
Looking at the guides is depressing. Essentially it's impossible to solo wh-space, or even small-corp a spot, unless you've got a couple years of skill training under your belt.
120+mill isk per week for POS fuel is going to go haywire when CCP nukes high-sec ice.
Bleh
Oh well. Thanks for the info anyway.
Profit favors the prepared |
Kyros Xero
Xuronautics
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 00:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quote:Looking at the guides is depressing. Essentially it's impossible to solo wh-space, or even small-corp a spot, unless you've got a couple years of skill training under your belt.
Skills always help, but I would hardly set the bar at two years. Keep in mind that a successful C1 operation looks very different from a successful C5, or even C3 operation. I have a corpmate with about 7.5m skill points who can solo C1 sites quite successfully with a Myrmidon, and has been capable of doing that since 5-6m skill points (if not sooner).
Certainly higher class wormholes can be a different beast altogether, and I will readily admit I have pretty much zero experience in those realms, but C1s are very doable, and can be very profitable, whether you are truly solo or in a small corp.
All it really takes is a battlecruiser, a T2 tank, and a willingness to get dangerous. |
007of009
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 05:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Have to agree, while i am a noob at living in them a C1 is perfectly solo able after a few months. I have a T2 tank, T2 Guns, and most skills in shields, gunnery and eng to 4. And learning from your balls ups when you die. |
Gritz1
Ice Fire Warriors
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 08:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
I spent a few hours in a WH when i learned how to scan with probes properly, and I found out quickly, THEY ARE WATCHING YOU! My assumption is a GSC will be found quickly, and if people are bored, it will go bye bye. |
Kyros Xero
Xuronautics
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 19:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
The nice thing about GSCs is that they can not be scanned down with probes*. Of course, you can be scanned down while you are visiting one, but as long as you anchor them at safe spots, keep an eye out for probes, and don't loiter they can be arguably even safer than POS storage.
*They show up on dscan/probe results, but can not be scanned down to an actual warp-in point. |
Evei Shard
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.12 19:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
If a GSC can't be scanned down, that would be convenient.
I really am only looking at what it takes to live in a C1 for short period of time.
I think that at the very minimum, I want to go into one, and let the hole close behind me, then find my way out just to know that I can do it.
I've poked around in them a bit. After entering the 15th one or so, my little frigate with it's probe launcher and one pulse laser gun ran into a Tengu. At least I think that's what it was. I didn't have much time beyond noting that I was in my pod before waking up in my new clone.
Profit favors the prepared |
|
Gritz1
Ice Fire Warriors
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.13 05:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kyros Xero wrote:The nice thing about GSCs is that they can not be scanned down with probes*. Of course, you can be scanned down while you are visiting one, but as long as you anchor them at safe spots, keep an eye out for probes, and don't loiter they can be arguably even safer than POS storage.
*They show up on dscan/probe results, but can not be scanned down to an actual warp-in point.
Good to know. |
Kalseth
United Researchers Association Omega Vector
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.13 05:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Not going to do a guide ....typing bad but as someone who has spent almost all my eve time in a WH I can give a few pointers.
First off ... things are always funner with more people. It is posable to live in a C1 solo but one or 2 others would maximise what you can do and give you some back up.... and .. umm .. its allways nice to have someone else around in there with you when you get podded and need a way back in :P
If its just you its just you though and it will still be worthwhile. GSC;s can not be sacnned down per say but there is a way to use your direction scaner to find them through process of elimination. In all my time in WH space I have blown up 1 of them... takes way to long and you don;t get any goodies so unless you really **** someone off they are safe most of the time.
If you are going to go there to stay for a bit PI is worth setting up. You can get much more out of a planet in a WH then any HS or easy LS planets.. but you have to be willing to set down roots to make it worth whille. The set up can be painfull.
You will get Gravi (mining sites) that have good to great ore (The rats come about 20 min after you spawn the site and do not come back .... most of the time) the Ladars in a C1 will be the cheaper gas but it still sells well. The general Annoms well ... I am jaded and expect 50-70 mill per annom but C1s are good isk makers if you salvage the goodies too. (WTB like 600 Melted Nanoribbons please)
The Mags and Radars will be like the annoms but with better loot. The mag loot from the cans will almost not be worth getting but the Radar loot cans can have some goodies .... the race decryptires sell well and some types selll for crazy isk.
All if the above is dependent on your skills of course. If you want to do anything you have to be able to kill the NPCs (should not be a problem in a C1) plus the skills to salvage ... plus mine ore or gas ... plus open the mag and radar cans plus ect ect. The initial Skill investment is not to bad to just get your feet wet at first but to really make it worth your whille you need to decied what you want to first and start training up to a minimum then move to the next thing on your list.
Oh, D scan is your friend. If you imagine someone in a cloaked T3 sitting 10 k meters behind you at every logged in moment you will save yourself a lot of isk in relacment ships and clones and inplants :P I have my scanner open at all times and hit the scan button easily every 45 sec. Of course I also am out there stealing someone elses C3 annoms in a 1.5 bill ship and that tends to up the parinoia a bit.
So .. I love WH. When I catch a free trip to HS by some nice Loki that was waiting cloaked of a Customs office I am bored out of my mind until I can get back "Home" to my WH.... but it is not an nice or easy place to live. The risk are great but the potentional rewards are great as well. Go in with a small or med tower .. do it right for a week or so and see if you like it. Or find a group that will let you come in and mentor with them for a bit. I would have you come out and play in my back yard .... but that would NOT be fun for you :P Oh the 100 mill or so someone mentiond for fuel cost on the small / med tower is Per month not week BTW.
Have fun and fill free to hit me Up here or in game with any questions you might have. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
34
|
Posted - 2011.11.13 19:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mal Nina wrote:
Looking at the guides is depressing. Essentially it's impossible to solo wh-space, or even small-corp a spot, unless you've got a couple years of skill training under your belt.
Not true at all. I have been living out of a C1 for the last 3 months. And I just started playing last April (so at the time i moved in i had only been playing maybe 5-6 months).
Now I do have 2 accounts, but my alt account is newer than this one. And I did spend time training POS defense so I can man the guns (haven't had to yet).
But a C1 is totally doable with a solo/small corp. I would upgrade now to a higher class but I am just lazy.
And even a C1 is mad mad isk.
It does make you paranoid too. I haven't run any in almost a month, but when I did run some LVL 4 missions in high sec I couldnt not dscan, and it freaked me out seeing so many ships on scan yet not warping off.
The real scary thing about WH's is dscan doesn't even help you that much. You can easily have a cloaky 5000m away from you and you'll never know it until he decloaks and locks you down. |
Evei Shard
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.13 21:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
What would be the minimum ship to take in? I know I need a scanner, but how difficult are the sleeper rats in a C1? Is it possible to draw a comparison between them and k-space belt rats when it comes to difficulty?
In regards to PvP evasion tactics, it is my understanding that just having a cloaking module on your ship kills your scan resolution, even if the module is powered down completely. What do others do in order to be able to scan yet overcome this huge drawback?
Most importantly, I figure it's just probe and hope when wanting to go from a wormhole to high-sec, but how on earth do you find a specific wormhole? o.O Profit favors the prepared |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
34
|
Posted - 2011.11.13 23:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
First off, feel free to hit me up in game if you want to chat. I am one of those crazy players who feel an MMO is a social gaming experience and enjoy chatting with people.
Evei Shard wrote:What would be the minimum ship to take in? I know I need a scanner, but how difficult are the sleeper rats in a C1? Is it possible to draw a comparison between them and k-space belt rats when it comes to difficulty?
While not exact, due to sleeper AI (switching aggro), I would put C1 sites on par with LVL 3 missions. In that basically any decent LVL 3 ship can handle a C1 site. So pretty much any T1 BC (Myrmidon, Drake, Hurricane etc) can easily tank a C1 site.
The difficulty becomes application of DPS. I started off with a Myrmidon, but my alt account now flies a drake.
All C1 sites are frigs and cruisers. probably about 60/40 frig/cruiser. Frigs all do the same thing, burn in and orbit close up, at around 5000m. Cruisers fall into 2 types 15km orbiting and 45km orbiting.
So this is why IMO missile boats like the drake are popular. Every turret weapon system has a short range variet and long range. But missiles hit fine across all ranges.
Evei Shard wrote:In regards to PvP evasion tactics, it is my understanding that just having a cloaking module on your ship kills your scan resolution, even if the module is powered down completely. What do others do in order to be able to scan yet overcome this huge drawback?
Running sites etc, a cloak imo is useless. The only time I will fit a cloak is when running neighboring WH sites. They will allow you to cloak up while scanning, or allow your salvager to cloak while waiting for sites to clear. Otherwise a cloak is not going to save you.
There are a number of tactics I have employed, and learned so far due to my WH life. I have had 3 gank situations so far in my WH life, and all three where due to stupid mistakes on my part. Briefly they are:
1. My C1 has a static Low sec. I actually have enjoyed this (LS has become my out of WH playground). but it can make logistics more difficult. My alt and my friend can both fly blockade runners and deep space transports. But Blockade runners have limited cargo compared to other industrials. So when a C2 connection opened one day I decided to use it to use the DST to haul more to market. The C2 had a static High sec and seemed quiet. I was wrong. I was fine on my way out. On my way back I flew my occator into the C2, then warped to the C2-C1 WH. While I was gone the residents had bubbled the WH. It dropped me out of warp, where i was met by a Helios, Hictor and Drake. Occator and pod lost (hictor bubbles suck). Lesson learned: When travelling through wormholes, nullsec travel rules apply. Namely dont warp directly from gate to gate.
2. I woke one morning and did my pre-work scan (usual activity), and found 3 sites had spawned. Caught my buddy online who just had barely enough time to run them. So we rushed through with 2 drakes. He logged and i went to salvage. As I warped my noctis to the first site, I found a dramiel on dsca as I approached. I knew i was screwed. I have changed a number of procedures to minimize this risk in the future. But for one, we were rushing and not being mindful of the current WH activity.
3. I logged in to find a drake running sites in my WH with a cormorant salvaging. OOOOH, time for me to gank someone else. I rallyed the troops, and we warped in 2 drakes and a triple rep myrm. It looked pretty good for about 10 seconds, when my buddy starts yelling TRAP TRAP. Dscan showed 9 ships total suddenly. Apparently another WH had spawned and they had laid a trap and jumped through as soon as I took it. Lesson: Going into battle with bad intel is a recipe for disaster.
Evei Shard wrote:Most importantly, I figure it's just probe and hope when wanting to go from a wormhole to high-sec, but how on earth do you find a specific wormhole? o.O
All wormholes have a static exit. What this means is when the static WH collapses a new one spawns immediately. So there is always a way out. C1-C3 will have at least one static to K-space. C4-C6 only have statics to other wormholes.
|
Bloody Wench
132
|
Posted - 2011.11.14 16:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Quote:Are sleepers the only option for making isk if you can't mine grav belts while there?
Given enough alts, PI can make you a (relative) ton of ISK.
|
Evei Shard
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 19:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote: All wormholes have a static exit. What this means is when the static WH collapses a new one spawns immediately. So there is always a way out. C1-C3 will have at least one static to K-space. C4-C6 only have statics to other wormholes.
That I understand, but how do you find your way back to a specific wormhole (like where your POS is) from k-space?
Profit favors the prepared |
Velicitia
Open Designs
89
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 19:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Evei Shard wrote:Mal Nina wrote:Expect to die. That is rule one. Been there, done that already. :) Looking at the guides is depressing. Essentially it's impossible to solo wh-space, or even small-corp a spot, unless you've got a couple years of skill training under your belt. 120+mill isk per week for POS fuel is going to go haywire when CCP nukes high-sec ice. Bleh Oh well. Thanks for the info anyway.
120+ per week? What're you flying, a large tower?
|
Kyros Xero
Xuronautics
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 21:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Evei Shard wrote: That I understand, but how do you find your way back to a specific wormhole (like where your POS is) from k-space?
Once the current wormhole path between your wormhole system and kspace is gone, it is all but impossible to find your way back to that specific wormhole system starting from k-space. Naturally, if you have any sort of investment in that system that is a problem. A common work-around people use is to create scanning ALTs which they keep in their home WH system, just in case the current static closes while they are outside. An emergency scanning ALT is a great use of the 2nd/3rd character slots on your account, and you can create a barebones scanning alt in under 3 days, good enough to scan down a wormhole and use a prototype cloak.
|
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
34
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 23:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kyros Xero wrote:Evei Shard wrote: That I understand, but how do you find your way back to a specific wormhole (like where your POS is) from k-space?
Once the current wormhole path between your wormhole system and kspace is gone, it is all but impossible to find your way back to that specific wormhole system starting from k-space. Naturally, if you have any sort of investment in that system that is a problem. A common work-around people use is to create scanning ALTs which they keep in their home WH system, just in case the current static closes while they are outside. An emergency scanning ALT is a great use of the 2nd/3rd character slots on your account, and you can create a barebones scanning alt in under 3 days, good enough to scan down a wormhole and use a prototype cloak.
This. Basically you need to keep someone on the inside. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |