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Bronya Boga
Isogen 5
309
   |
Posted - 2014.03.08 22:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
Sum Olgy wrote:Winthorp wrote:What region of null will we be invading after said meeting?
EDIT: On a more serious note what do you actually expect this meeting to achieve other then getting some public appearances done and out of the way for you and James so you can both look like you have been open to the WH community before the elections?
Seriously there have been massive threadnaughts in this subsection and not all ending in trolling with serious posts from a wide variety of groups in WH space and you want to have a TS chat about ideas some more? Has the whole WH community not given you enough to "go on".
After a TS chat and you get reelected will we just never here from you both again for another 11 months? Why can't you *ever* be positive about well... anything? Best policy in life - If you haven't got anything nice to say don't say anything. 
these forums would be so empty :|
My Opinions are my own and do not reflect my corp
Host of Down The Pipe-á
www.downthepipe-wh.com
Ingame Channel DTP Podcast |
Winthorp
Sky Fighters
1192
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 23:08:00 -
[32] - Quote
Sum Olgy wrote:Winthorp wrote:What region of null will we be invading after said meeting?
EDIT: On a more serious note what do you actually expect this meeting to achieve other then getting some public appearances done and out of the way for you and James so you can both look like you have been open to the WH community before the elections?
Seriously there have been massive threadnaughts in this subsection and not all ending in trolling with serious posts from a wide variety of groups in WH space and you want to have a TS chat about ideas some more? Has the whole WH community not given you enough to "go on".
After a TS chat and you get reelected will we just never here from you both again for another 11 months? Why can't you *ever* be positive about well... anything? Best policy in life - If you haven't got anything nice to say don't say anything.
I like to point out the subtle undertone of political bullshit. What can i say but i am here for the people.
If we all stood silent while **** people posted crap then **** people would get out of control.
(Insert witty signature here) |
poerkie
Viperfleet Inc.
Disavowed.
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 23:08:00 -
[33] - Quote
could you maybe get it done to get the recall probes and use probes to scan button get seperated. cuz i keep clicking the wrong button every now and then........................... |
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
724
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 23:50:00 -
[34] - Quote
Sum Olgy wrote:Best policy in life - If you haven't got anything nice to say don't say anything.
Better policy: if you haven't got anything nice to say, it's because the people around you are idiots and need to be educated, forcibly if necessary.
There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency. |
Nylon Elephant
Outer Ring Sleeper Collective
Illusion of Solitude
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 00:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
Part 2 is up here
Featuring us singing happy birthday to Chitsa under TiDi. |
Winthorp
Sky Fighters
1193
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 05:50:00 -
[36] - Quote
Sum Olgy will hate this post even more.
MY TL;DR of the townhall.
- Chitsa went off base and moved the conversation in the wrong direction every single time he spoke. (How does this guy ever get any coherent work done while operating like a bipolar madman?)
- Most people apart from James wasted all the time they had with CCP Fozzie.
- I wish that chick was a WH CSM, topics of concern might get more focus and better questions asked to prompt action.
- Other non essential CSM's got on and wasted a significant amount of time talking about their own **** when you had James and Chitsa for the CSM > CCP perspectives as to how things get done.
- Talked about more ideas for C4 and Black holes and they were said over and over in multiple threads here... More wasted time.
I really couldn't find any positives to this townhall, it sounded exactly like the townhall that was had before last election and my guess is before next election we will have another townhall about C4's and Blackholes.
(Insert witty signature here) |
Bane Nucleus
Sky Fighters
1177
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 06:08:00 -
[37] - Quote
poerkie wrote:could you maybe get it done to get the recall probes and use probes to scan button get seperated. cuz i keep clicking the wrong button every now and then...........................
THIS.
No trolling please |
AssassinationsdoneWrong
The Nexus 7's
Infinite Anarchy
106
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 11:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
Yes the following is a wall of text but I hope it gets read and I like any kind of feedback.
Points of importance to me:
1. Delaying overlay sigs? Absofarkinlutely! But not making them available on probes ??? No! Stupid idea!
2. Cure to BH = ratting and industry bonuses????? That's what you came up with Chitsa? TBH f**k the industry clowns they are not the content providers in WHs and you want to reward them for it? Very few miners escalate nowadays so put this idea away please. take nerf bat, apply liberally to all BH's and swap them for a mix of the others thus providing more room for new corps.
3. Chitsa - You need to learn to stay on track! Simply throwing hand grenades into a conversation, closing the door, waiting for the bang and then opening the door to see what happened isn't what you're there for. You already know the contentious issues (If you don't then wtf have you been doing for last 11 months??) We expect our representative to tell us the progress of issues as they stand right now in your term and then ask for feedback not the other way around and certainly not ask for spitballing in the twilight of their term!
4. HIC and Dictor bubbles are fine the way they are. Traps still work just fine you just have to work hard for them.
5. POSes = broken but its not just a WH issue so I understand the over-cautious approach but I would like to see ALL of the CSM not just WHer's DEMANDING a timeline from CCP. At the moment you all seem to be laying down with the "Yeah we're aware of it and we'll fix it we promise" reply. I'd also like to see POSes/POS gunning ramped a little to actually be reasonably effective against a full on dread + carrier + subcap fleet defence but I know I'm in the minority on that.
6. AFK Cloaking - Leave it alone in ALL space. If null sec bears (let's face it the only ones really moaning about it) want to earn uber-isk then they have to accept they are at risk. Don't change anything because it will ultimately affect W-Space negatively the same way that instasigs did.
WH cloaking is an integral part of WH life. It requires patience and if I roll into a WH and see their activity line is 2 hours from now and they have bling losses you can be damn sure I'm gonna be in there for that duration and yes I may afk to go make a cup of coffee. Sorry.
Removing DScan whilst cloaking?? Just take cloaks off the market completely then because you just broke it for good.
7. @ Chitsa. If your CCP "guy" thinks WH space is "a bit complicated for the average player base" so what? So is effective market trading, incursion running, low sec ganking, blob coordination and any other niche in the game. Dumbing it down, which is a trend already in play, is not the way to promote it. Stop buying the CCP popcorn!
8. CCP Fozzie needs a rename to CCP QuestionTransversal, "Its been thought of, thats a good idea, no real dates, not really on the schedule etc. etc. The answer avoidance was supreme.
9. The big topics of the last year were actually NOT covered (Save BH-BS) and I did notice the C4 with dual statics was brushed on lightly but when the suggestion of dual statics for the bigger boys (C5,C6) was mentioned the convo got crickets followed by a veer-off immediately. Not sure why C5'ers want C4's to have duals if they don't want them themselves but maybe I was just misreading the chatter?
THE BOTTOM LINE
I don't know you Chitsa I've never been on comms with you and tbh this is the first time I've listened to you and I'm suffering acute underwhelment.
James (Don't know him either) on the other hand kept his comments crisp, to the point and without window dressing which is what we need. I feel he should (if he isn't) stand again but we have to separate the wheat from the chaff here and unfortunately Chitsa I for one am glad you are stepping down and hope you've enjoyed the comp'd trips to Iceland.
CCP decided to put the CSM into place and for it to be effective we do have to have people on it who are going to say no, represent their playerbase rather than their own agenda and stand up to CCP for as what we are ..... their CUSTOMERS!
AdW
|
Chitsa Jason
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
1215
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 12:04:00 -
[39] - Quote
Thank you everyone for showing up. It was the first time I organized something like this. So please keep the feedback coming so next time when it is done we can do it better.
CSM8 Member
Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason
Skype: Casparas
|
Axloth Okiah
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
309
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 12:41:00 -
[40] - Quote
I think it was nice. At got a bit hostile at places (cloaking... Star and Malcanis BFFs), but for the most part ot was a nice community showing.
W-Space Realtor |
CeNSeR
Boris Johnson's Love Children
Awakened.
72
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 13:14:00 -
[41] - Quote
Enjoyed listening to this.
On the afk cloaking issue...Is it possible to have 2 separate mechanics for known and wormhole space?
E.g make it possible to somehow pinpoint a cloaked ship in Known space but not possible in a wormhole.
I am not saying this should be implemented but it seems to me that what gets implemented into known space has a knock on effect for wormholes, take the scan overlay for example. Why cant the overlay work in a different way in wormholes where a signature does not show for 5 minutes or does not show up at all until probed down.
Maybe this is just not possible or would be a programming nightmare i have no idea. We already have verifying mechanics from wormhole systems to known space like local,sov and cyno's why is it that cloaking and the scanner overlay is different? |
Wander Prian
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
27
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 13:35:00 -
[42] - Quote
I found the townhall and the conversations that followed to be great. I was especially delighted to have so many CSM's there and talking about wormholes, even if they aren't the "wh-CSM". Getting Fozzie to join was a nice bonus and even though most questions were hitting the NDA/hypecontrol -wall, it was nice to see some real discussions happening on different subjects.
I will make sure to join on the next townhall as well. |
Daimian Mercer
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
27
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 13:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
I tried to bring up some ideas on how CCP could help open up major improvements for wh-space mapping tools...
- Bookmark linking (and JS IGB hooks)
- IGB header for nearest celestial object (CCP removed - was in old IGB)
- Drag-n-Drop to and from IGB (CCP removed - was in old IGB)
* Bookmark linking and JS IGB hooks would allow 3rd party WH mapping tools to be able to share bookmarks - possibly adding ability to right-click warp to bookmark from browser. This would open up millions of opportunities for 3rd party tools to handle sharing for bookmarks instead of just adding Alliance BMs or higher cap. (CCP already have BM ids which can be found when trying to link BMs now)
* Nearest celestial object IGB header would allow 3rd party tools to know to a better degree where a pilot is. This could translate to being able to update signature IDs after DT because we would be able to log where signatures are roughly in a system. Or better could be used by 3rd party fleet tools.
* Drag-n-Drop in/out of IGB would make putting info into 3rd party tools much faster and also getting that data back out. A perfect example would be a fitting tool with the ability to drop a fit from EVE into browser and then back out again later. Could even combine this idea with the BM linking idea to quickly and easily share BMs.
These are some ideas I think would have the biggest impact on how 3rd party tools can help players where CCP hasn't been able to give attention to yet. I know I'm new to the scene for 3rd party tools but I am very driven to push this area of EVE. Would love to share more ideas if interested. |
Bane Nucleus
Sky Fighters
1177
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 14:49:00 -
[44] - Quote
Just one thing from me here:
AFK cloaking is NOT an issue. Sorry you don't feel safe, but Eve isn't a safe place. Get over it
No trolling please |
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
322
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 16:31:00 -
[45] - Quote
Bane Nucleus wrote:Just one thing from me here:
AFK cloaking is NOT an issue. Sorry you don't feel safe, but Eve isn't a safe place. Get over it
CCP should WANT us to sit still for hours at a time and not do anything. They make money and their systems are taxed very little, while we think we're enjoying ourselves.
Besides, Nullsec is the safest area of space. Removing the ability to sit for periods of time while cloaked, potentially AFK or potentially stalking your targets, makes it even safer. Next thing you know, people will be asking for sites to spawn with wrecks pre-salvaged and delivered to your hangar in your station, so you don't have to go out into the evil, scary space place. It ties into ISK faucet as well, which anyone with a clue can see is opened up full blast. |
Karen Galeo
Sin Factory
Infinite Anarchy
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 17:07:00 -
[46] - Quote
I would like to know why 'AFK cloakies' are a problem and manned cloakies are not. You really have no way of knowing if they've stepped away. |
Wander Prian
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
27
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 22:01:00 -
[47] - Quote
That's what the nullbears are complaining. They wouldn't mind if they were "active" cloakies, since then you are playing, but if you just sit in system, they can't take the chance of what might happen... So basically they want a way to know if you are active or not so they know when to pos up |
Nox52
Lycosa Syndicate
Surely You're Joking
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 00:32:00 -
[48] - Quote
To whoever suggested that after quality of life improvements poses are semi ok? WTF is wrong with you?! Poses and corp roles are so **** it went from bad to funny. |
Keith Planck
Sky Fighters
697
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 01:00:00 -
[49] - Quote
Threads like this are why everyone hates politics... |
Akseli Jari
Sky Fighters
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 05:17:00 -
[50] - Quote
Listened to part 1 of this.
1.Please leave our cloaking mechanics alone, they work fine in wormholes as it is. I generally assume that someone is watching me when im active anyway.
However in wspace lets not forget alot of our more profitable sites are ones that you need to scan down, if your in that site and the people stalking you want to get you, they are going to have to use probes if they havent bm'd. This fact adds a small security layer to doing sites in wspace, unless ur doing cap escalations in anoms etc. Tldr: see probes gtfo.
I believe that it is the norm in nullsec to run the anoms that everyone can see at 100%. Perhaps the issue for you isnt cloaking, but perhaps the how easy it is for a cloaky to sneak up on you.
2. Leave the sig overlay as is, the security concious will go back to hitting scan on probes every 30 secs if u delay it, its just a qol change.
3. Black holes suck, please change them. Refer to other peepz better ideas.
4. Pos are pretty bad. Shared smas are also a barrier to peepz who may be interested I wspace but cant replace 4 ships if there all stolen on day 1.
Cool **** we can construct to slightly personalise our whs would be interesting and welcome by me. |
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
322
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 12:05:00 -
[51] - Quote
Akseli Jari wrote:However in wspace lets not forget alot of our more profitable sites are ones that you need to scan down, if your in that site and the people stalking you want to catch you, they are going to have to use probes if they havent bm'd. This fact adds a small security layer to doing sites in wspace, unless ur doing cap escalations in anoms etc. Tldr: see probes gtfo.
I believe that it is the norm in nullsec to run the anoms that everyone can see at 100%. Perhaps the issue for you isnt cloaking, but how easy it is for a cloaky to sneak up on you.
The most profitable sites in W-space are just as vulnerable as the most profitable sites in Nullsec, and you typically have MUCH more ISK on the line in W-space than in Nullsec, where a single carrier can rat in peace for days at a time before seeing a hostile. In addition to that, mining sites in W-space are just as vulnerable as mining sites in Nullsec for anyone masochistic enough to mine. The above comments mean nothing and accomplish nothing.
What you neglected to mention, while throwing words at the wind, was the fact that Nullsec tells you when someone is coming by happily posting their name in the local chat list, whereas you only see someone in W-space if you can catch the probes on dscan or the hole happens to open up within dscan range and you catch the scout decloaked after jumping in.
The largegst issue with Nullsec is that while it is in fact safer than empire and much safer than W-space, they still don't "feel" safe enough. They still don't have enough of an illusion of safety. If most people knew just how many visitors and stalkers were in a W-space system at any given time, they'd run away screaming like a scared little girl and never come back. But they don't, so they have an illusion that it is safe until directly threatened.
Take away the free local chat intelligence tool, and you will give Nullsec what the Nullbears want: the illusion of safety. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Awakened.
1403
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 12:30:00 -
[52] - Quote
The meeting was very disorganised but overall i liked it and i would take part in more discussions like this in the future... But please don't invite that malcanis guy back.
If there is a next time, please have a list of question prepared and just ask for our opinions on them. Any radical ideas you have (industry wormholes) should be discussed on the forums rather that during an informal meeting.
Thanks to James, Chits and Ali for organizing and taking the time to hold the meeting, and thanks to everyone else who turned up and contributed to the discussions.
+1 |
Akseli Jari
Sky Fighters
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 13:38:00 -
[53] - Quote
Meytal wrote:Akseli Jari wrote:However in wspace lets not forget alot of our more profitable sites are ones that you need to scan down, if your in that site and the people stalking you want to catch you, they are going to have to use probes if they havent bm'd. This fact adds a small security layer to doing sites in wspace, unless ur doing cap escalations in anoms etc. Tldr: see probes gtfo.
I believe that it is the norm in nullsec to run the anoms that everyone can see at 100%. Perhaps the issue for you isnt cloaking, but how easy it is for a cloaky to sneak up on you. The most profitable sites in W-space are just as vulnerable as the most profitable sites in Nullsec, and you typically have MUCH more ISK on the line in W-space than in Nullsec, where a single carrier can rat in peace for days at a time before seeing a hostile. In addition to that, mining sites in W-space are just as vulnerable as mining sites in Nullsec for anyone masochistic enough to mine. The above comments mean nothing and accomplish nothing. What you neglected to mention, while throwing words at the wind, was the fact that Nullsec tells you when someone is coming by happily posting their name in the local chat list, whereas you only see someone in W-space if you can catch the probes on dscan or the hole happens to open up within dscan range and you catch the scout decloaked after jumping in. The largegst issue with Nullsec is that while it is in fact safer than empire and much safer than W-space, they still don't "feel" safe enough. They still don't have enough of an illusion of safety. If most people knew just how many visitors and stalkers were in a W-space system at any given time, they'd run away screaming like a scared little girl and never come back. But they don't, so they have an illusion that it is safe until directly threatened. Take away the free local chat intelligence tool, and you will give Nullsec what the Nullbears want: the illusion of safety.
Thank you for informing us all how eggs are sucked, though largely I agree with most of what you said.
CCP wont remove local to cater to null bears, but hey, more cap kills for us if they do. 
The meeting was a bit painful at times when everyone tried talking over each other and did seem to lack a direction, but it beats reading article after article about the nullsec donut complaining about other parts of the donut. In fact maybe the challenge for the next one would be not mentioning nullsec at all D: ??
|
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 14:07:00 -
[54] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:
- I wish that chick was a WH CSM, topics of concern might get more focus and better questions asked to prompt action.
Easily this. She was the most organised person in the meeting - she listened and summarised well and asked intelligent questions. |
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Affirmative.
286
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 15:21:00 -
[55] - Quote
Necharo Rackham wrote:Winthorp wrote:
- I wish that chick was a WH CSM, topics of concern might get more focus and better questions asked to prompt action.
Easily this. She was the most organised person in the meeting - she listened and summarised well and asked intelligent questions.
The name is Ali Aras and she's running again for CSM 9. |
Intana Kreis
The Red Circle Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.15 21:08:00 -
[56] - Quote
After listening to this, especially the bits about cloaking mechanics/afk cloaking - I have a theory:
CCP are going to change the cloak module to have a cycle time, and make it non auto-repeatable - meaning you have to be at the keyboard to re-activate it - this is to 'solve' the complaints from nullsecers about AFK cloakers.
If this is the case, they'll basically be protecting one lot of afk people, from another set of possibly afk people.
|
Bronya Boga
Isogen 5
316
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 00:37:00 -
[57] - Quote
Intana Kreis wrote:After listening to this, especially the bits about cloaking mechanics/afk cloaking - I have a theory:
CCP are going to change the cloak module to have a cycle time, and make it non auto-repeatable - meaning you have to be at the keyboard to re-activate it - this is to 'solve' the complaints from nullsecers about AFK cloakers.
If this is the case, they'll basically be protecting one lot of afk people, from another set of possibly afk people.
That breaks what clock mechanics are now and may solve one issue but create a problem that will resonate more then just in wspace. They wouldn't do that.
My Opinions are my own and do not reflect my corp
Host of Down The Pipe-á
www.downthepipe-wh.com
Ingame Channel DTP Podcast |
Intana Kreis
The Red Circle Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 09:48:00 -
[58] - Quote
Bronya Boga wrote:
That breaks what clock mechanics are now and may solve one issue but create a problem that will resonate more then just in wspace. They wouldn't do that.
Well - I don't want to be right. But there was too much talk that seemed to indicate that CCP think that AFK cloakies are a HUGE problem and that the CSM are trying to mitigate the consequences before a change comes down. It's the simplest mechanism to prevent 'AFK' cloaking while allowing 'non-AFK' cloaking. |
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