Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Weed Guy
Seven Clouds Light And Dark
8
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 00:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Are Minmatar ships the best pvp ships in the game? In all tiers, including stealth bombers and recon ships? It's those covert ops ships I'm specifically interested in. |
xHxHxAOD
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 00:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
no and ps there is no the best ship or race really |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1564
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 00:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Minmatar is once again Eve on hard mode. |
Hadrian Blackstone
Barringtons Research
40
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 00:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
If you think about it, Minmitar engineers are the best in the galaxy. They make Tech 3, covert ops and Titans out of scrap and rusted metal. Truly amazing. |
Weed Guy
Seven Clouds Light And Dark
8
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 00:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
So I looked at isis for a bit and minmatar recon ships don't look so hot, Amarrian recon ships actually look the best for solo. |
Dato Koppla
Elite Guards Stealth Wear Inc.
503
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 00:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rebalancing has brought all the ships quite close together, for the bombers they are pretty much evenly matched, each has it's upsides and downsides, no real 'best' one IMO (one could argue Nemesis is worse because of the horrendous fitting). For Recon Ships Rapier and Huugin are both good ships, but so are the other races Recons, all of them serve some kind of purpose with the Rook posssibly being the crappiest. Finally for cloaky T3s the Loki makes a fine cloaky webber like the Rapier but with a massive tank, as a cloaky hunter it's dps is kinda low but it's passable, the best cloaky T3 for tank/gank is the Proteus, but the Loki is still acceptable. |
Weed Guy
Seven Clouds Light And Dark
8
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 00:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:Rebalancing has brought all the ships quite close together, for the bombers they are pretty much evenly matched, each has it's upsides and downsides, no real 'best' one IMO (one could argue Nemesis is worse because of the horrendous fitting). For Recon Ships Rapier and Huugin are both good ships, but so are the other races Recons, all of them serve some kind of purpose with the Rook posssibly being the crappiest. Finally for cloaky T3s the Loki makes a fine cloaky webber like the Rapier but with a massive tank, as a cloaky hunter it's dps is kinda low but it's passable, the best cloaky T3 for tank/gank is the Proteus, but the Loki is still acceptable.
thank you that was a very informative post :) |
Gefen Orion
Orion Star Ltd.
15
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 01:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
All ships in eve are more or less equal. It really depends on your playstyle and your preference. Eventually you will be able to fly almost all ships you like, given time and proper planning. So plan ahead and stick with your objectives. |
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
273
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 03:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Recon ships are largely a support role...one in which the minmatar variants actually excel. Super long range webs are epic, especially when combined with the long point on an arazu/lachesis. thhief ghabmoef |
Bruce Kemp
Suddenly taken over
103
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 04:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Weed Guy wrote:Are Minmatar ships the best pvp ships in the game? In all tiers, including stealth bombers and recon ships? It's those covert ops ships I'm specifically interested in.
Gallente top race atm, |
|
Bruce Kemp
Suddenly taken over
103
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 04:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Minmatar is once again Eve on hard mode.
Thats the way we like it....Hard.
|
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
1104
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 05:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Short answer: no Long answer: noooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
Jon Joringer
Zero-K
113
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 19:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
The Glory Days of Winmatar have come and gone. Due to the rebalancing initiative put forth by CCP, known as 'teircide,' all other races have encroached on what made Minmatar Winmatar (namely, speed, damage projection). That isn't to say Minmatar ships are terrible now, they're just, most of them, in a strange place of not being terribly good at anything. |
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
724
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 00:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
They're best, if by "best" you mean "not best".
I'm glad to be of service. There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency. |
Omara Otawan
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 02:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Once you realize that a plated Thorax has no issue catching a single-speedmod Stabber, the supposed speed king of the T1 cruiser lineup, you'll clearly see the problem.
Sure, overheat mechanics with MWDs (cycle) play a role here, but the core issue is that minmatar ships don't have a distinct enough speed advantage anymore, let alone agility. |
Chessur
Amarrian Nublet Team Amarrica
301
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 07:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
For covops stuff, minny bring some nice things to the table.
For the bombers- they have the best solo, and a great fleet bomber in the Hound. Its a great ship, and second to none in the lineup.
For the Recons- Rapier is hands down the most useful recon in a cloaky gang. Fit with Faction TPs' and Webs (with info and skirmish link) This ship will increase the effective DPS of your Bomber wing immensely. No other ship can do the job better.
Loki- All covert subsystem T3 are pretty ****. The loki can bring long webs, kind of like the rapier. But from a pure cloaky gank gameplay style, pales in comparison to the utility the rapier brings.
Panther- Best BLOPS ingame currently. Its fast, can project DPS and makes for a very nice nanoplatform. (Think of a slightly watered down Mach.) 2600MS unheated MWD speed, is nothing to scoff at. It can also bring the heavy neuts, which provides some additional utility for your bomber gang.
Overall minny have a great cloaky workhorse. |
Rab See
Fool Mental Junket
43
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 13:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Omara Otawan wrote:Once you realize that a plated Thorax has no issue catching a single-speedmod Stabber, the supposed speed king of the T1 cruiser lineup, you'll clearly see the problem.
Sure, overheat mechanics with MWDs (cycle) play a role here, but the core issue is that minmatar ships don't have a distinct enough speed advantage anymore, let alone agility.
Yes - it was speed, agility and utility as a race, now they are just wholly 'meh'. Look at the HACs - one trick pony or what. Nothing useful there.
Loki - cant be used for anything other than heavy tackle. And others bring DPS and heavier tackle, plus ... well .. all that Minmatar used to bring.
The recent changes just homogenized everything. Choose your race on the ships that look nice - blandly. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14025
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 14:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Rab See wrote:Omara Otawan wrote:Once you realize that a plated Thorax has no issue catching a single-speedmod Stabber, the supposed speed king of the T1 cruiser lineup, you'll clearly see the problem.
Sure, overheat mechanics with MWDs (cycle) play a role here, but the core issue is that minmatar ships don't have a distinct enough speed advantage anymore, let alone agility. Yes - it was speed, agility and utility as a race, now they are just wholly 'meh'. Look at the HACs - one trick pony or what. Nothing useful there. Loki - cant be used for anything other than heavy tackle. And others bring DPS and heavier tackle, plus ... well .. all that Minmatar used to bring. The recent changes just homogenized everything. Choose your race on the ships that look nice - blandly.
The other T3s have a webbing bonus subsystem now?
1 Kings 12:11
|
Chessur
Amarrian Nublet Team Amarrica
302
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 14:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Rab See wrote:Omara Otawan wrote:Once you realize that a plated Thorax has no issue catching a single-speedmod Stabber, the supposed speed king of the T1 cruiser lineup, you'll clearly see the problem.
Sure, overheat mechanics with MWDs (cycle) play a role here, but the core issue is that minmatar ships don't have a distinct enough speed advantage anymore, let alone agility. Yes - it was speed, agility and utility as a race, now they are just wholly 'meh'. Look at the HACs - one trick pony or what. Nothing useful there. Loki - cant be used for anything other than heavy tackle. And others bring DPS and heavier tackle, plus ... well .. all that Minmatar used to bring. The recent changes just homogenized everything. Choose your race on the ships that look nice - blandly.
This is wrong, Plated thorax- is not faster than a stabber. Infact, no T1 cruiser has a faster speed than the stabber. So please stop.
And the problem with kiting, and minny ships- are not the hulls. They easily have the agility and speed to do so when properly fit. Its the fact that minny ships are using a trash tier weapon system, and have no reliable platform to bring DPS from 30K. |
Fenris Orion
Rapid Withdrawal
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 18:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
[quote/ Omara Otawan]Once you realize that a plated Thorax has no issue catching a single-speed mod Stabber, the supposed speed king of the T1 cruiser lineup, you'll clearly see the problem.[/quote]
I don't know what you're smoking, but I want some. My shield/rail Rax with one auxiliary thruster rig is NOT going to keep up with a Stabber. Although, if you get within web range of my Blaster-Rax in a Stabber, and I'll probably gonna eat it alive. That's probably where you're going wrong.
Also, medium Railguns dish out much better raw damage at range, but Autocannons have vastly superior tracking. Which one is more effective depends on how much maneuvering is going on.
I've been on the receiving end of enough SFI's and Vagabonds to be convinced they're the best thing Minnmitar have going for them. So much so that I spent the cash building a Proteus to deal with them.
The aforementioned long-web Loki would pair perfectly with the long scram of the Proteus. The "best" of anything depends entirely on the situation.
|
|
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
1109
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 18:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
The "best ship" is the one with the most friends.
Stop trying to get "teh leetest ship in teh game!" and go make a friend. Two ships is better than one almost every time. |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
594
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 22:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Paikis wrote:The "best ship" is the one with the most friends.
Stop trying to get "teh leetest ship in teh game!" and go make a friend. Two ships is better than one almost every time.
Paikis is right, "best ship" = Friendship |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
912
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 23:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
Chessur wrote:Rab See wrote:Omara Otawan wrote:Once you realize that a plated Thorax has no issue catching a single-speedmod Stabber, the supposed speed king of the T1 cruiser lineup, you'll clearly see the problem.
Sure, overheat mechanics with MWDs (cycle) play a role here, but the core issue is that minmatar ships don't have a distinct enough speed advantage anymore, let alone agility. Yes - it was speed, agility and utility as a race, now they are just wholly 'meh'. Look at the HACs - one trick pony or what. Nothing useful there. Loki - cant be used for anything other than heavy tackle. And others bring DPS and heavier tackle, plus ... well .. all that Minmatar used to bring. The recent changes just homogenized everything. Choose your race on the ships that look nice - blandly. This is wrong, Plated thorax- is not faster than a stabber. Infact, no T1 cruiser has a faster speed than the stabber. So please stop. And the problem with kiting, and minny ships- are not the hulls. They easily have the agility and speed to do so when properly fit. Its the fact that minny ships are using a trash tier weapon system, and have no reliable platform to bring DPS from 30K.
This ^
Damn I'm agreeing with Chessur! (Also when did you join the Amarr militia?!)
Minmatar are very much in a 'middle of the road/jack of all trades master of none' position now they are not OP since teiricide as their most valuable asset (speed) has been drastically reigned in buy the other races now. They generally still have the highest top speed but are often lacking in agility to fully utilise that speed and with the medium long range weapon changes and the TE nerfs their damage projection is much less than other races now.
I'll still fly them lots though :) That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
2384
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 04:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
You know that scene in the "The Crow?"
"I thought you were, like, invincible?" "I was. I'm not anymore."
That's kind of what ship rebalancing did. Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
Lilith Velkor
Doughboys Shadow Cartel
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 19:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jon Joringer wrote:The Glory Days of Winmatar have come and gone. Due to the rebalancing initiative put forth by CCP, known as 'teircide,' all other races have encroached on what made Minmatar Winmatar (namely, speed, damage projection). That isn't to say Minmatar ships are terrible now, they're just, most of them, in a strange place of not being terribly good at anything.
In fact, they weren't even that great to begin with, but rather the direct competitors all used to have some distinct weaknesses that allowed the flexible slot layout combined with decent speed advantage tip the fight in your favor, given you knew how to exploit that weakness.
Now with most ships being just as versatile, almost as fast, with better tank or damage output or even both, they mostly end up being average or below average at what pretty much every ship can do. That doesn't really work that well in a game where a 5% advantage makes a gigantic difference. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1179
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 23:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jon Joringer wrote:The Glory Days of Winmatar have come and gone. Due to the rebalancing initiative put forth by CCP, known as 'teircide,' all other races have encroached on what made Minmatar Winmatar (namely, speed, damage projection). That isn't to say Minmatar ships are terrible now, they're just, most of them, in a strange place of not being terribly good at anything.
That's how I feel about amarr ships, balancing must be working then if no one is happy. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Luwc
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
79
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 08:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
there is no best race or best ship....
Every ship and every race has its upsides and downsides and roles they shine at.
Minmatar though are the most versatile but also the most skill requiring.
to give you a very very very very rough idea :
Caldari : Heavy Shield Tanks. Eelectronic Warfare. Slow as **** Gallente : Heavy Armor Tanks. Annoying as **** Sensor Damps. In your face short range DPS. Amarr : Heavy Armor Tanks. Say Goodbye to your Cap. Lasers go Pew (effective weapon system for multiple ranges) Minmatar: Both Shield and Armor Tanks / FIT THAT ASB NIQQAH /. Can basically volley your ass with Arties. Auto cannons with good damage, tracking and decent range.... Fast as ****,. |
Danny John-Peter
Snuff Box
415
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 08:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
Minmatar have there strengths still there is no doubt, however the previously famous kiting cruiser lineup suffers from Medium ACs being awful now, they have mediocre tracking, mediocre raw damage and awful damage application from range, until that gets sorted the kiting Minmatar ships of old will not be competitive.
If I was going to pick a race to train first these days I would do Amarr or Gallente. |
Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
550
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 15:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Minmatar is once again Eve on hard mode. In fact, I think that can't be otherwise. That's the curse of "jack of all trades, master of none" or more explicitely "good at everything, best at nothing".
Winmatar were because in any situation the minmatar ship could exploit the weakness of its oponent, hence nothing could actually compete provided the minmatar pilot had half a brain.
And the fact that all winmatar defenders come to the following kind of arguments : Lilith Velkor wrote:In fact, they weren't even that great to begin with, but rather the direct competitors all used to have some distinct weaknesses that allowed the flexible slot layout combined with decent speed advantage tip the fight in your favor, given you knew how to exploit that weakness. ; is a proof that the power level was way over the top. If something is hard to do, only the best would manage to do it (that is pretty much the definition of hard) yet everyone seemed ok thinking they were all l33t pvper because they were successful in winmatar ships.
IMO, the most difficult thing for minmatar these days is that blasters (and gallente ships to some extent) have been overbuffed. neutron blasters + null is what makes AC feel bad right now, because they have similar performances at long short range whereas blasters have a lot more power at very close range. I'd say the powergrid buff neutron blasters received should be reverted.
Yet AC still have a lot of advantages : capless and selectable damage is great, but they also have the best tracking and they project their dps as far or even farther than pulse laser, yet with a lot less punch of course, but still you will reach your target at hilarious ranges. This versatility means their ships (combined with utility high) should often be the best to engage uper sized targets, and the best to engage smaller sized targets. The downside is that they sometimes are a bit less powerfull than same size target, but you can't have everything.
Neut+AC on a cruiser is the bane of almost any frigate ; nos + double prop will allow a cruiser to engage almost any BS
And of course artilleries. They have fallen out of favor recently, yet their power is still the same as before. IMO they are fine, blaping things exactly just like they should. Yet the successive missile buffs are starting to encroach upon their role, but minmatar can now use them too anyway. |
Lilith Velkor
Doughboys Shadow Cartel
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 16:14:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:Minmatar is once again Eve on hard mode. In fact, I think that can't be otherwise. That's the curse of "jack of all trades, master of none" or more explicitely "good at everything, best at nothing". Winmatar were because in any situation the minmatar ship could exploit the weakness of its oponent, hence nothing could actually compete provided the minmatar pilot had half a brain.
No, minmatar were extremely popular because they did offer adequate performance paired with speed.
You can argue back and forth about what ship was best in which hypothetical scenario, but considering durability and damage projection, both Harbinger and Drake were superior to the Hurricane.
What really made the Hurricane the superior choice in general was the fact that it had very good mobility. Players naturally gravitated towards it, given that dealing half the damage of a Harbinger at range is still a lot more than nothing (i.e. the damage a Harbinger deals after it gets killed because it didnt align fast enough), and it allows them to chase down people that dont want to fight better (because you have 3 times their numbers).
Bouh Revetoile wrote:And the fact that all winmatar defenders come to the following kind of arguments : Lilith Velkor wrote:In fact, they weren't even that great to begin with, but rather the direct competitors all used to have some distinct weaknesses that allowed the flexible slot layout combined with decent speed advantage tip the fight in your favor, given you knew how to exploit that weakness. ; is a proof that the power level was way over the top. If something is hard to do, only the best would manage to do it (that is pretty much the definition of hard) yet everyone seemed ok thinking they were all l33t pvper because they were successful in winmatar ships.
Well, that kinda is the whole point of their racial trait. They dont do anything really great, but use speed and maneuverability to exploit the one thing their enemy is really bad at. You might not like it as it does, as a necessity, bring with it the ability to pick what to fight in your class and what not, but from a balance perspective it is a necessity.
What people refer to when they say "hard to fly" is the fact that the playstyle is very unforgiving, usually a single mistake means you lost without possibility to recover.
There will always be people thinking they are l33t pvpers because they just invested 3bill in a frigate, have a t3 booster always at their side, or simply pick only fights they know they will win. Has nothing to do with the race, all players do this.
Bouh Revetoile wrote: IMO, the most difficult thing for minmatar these days is that blasters (and gallente ships to some extent) have been overbuffed. neutron blasters + null is what makes AC feel bad right now, because they have similar performances at long short range whereas blasters have a lot more power at very close range. I'd say the powergrid buff neutron blasters received should be reverted.
I agree that gallente overbuff is one of the major issues for minmatar, but personally I'd say blasters are fine the way they are now. I rather see the problem with gallente being a tad too fast and agile.
Autos are in fact only 2nd best tracking, after blasters, but that is not an issue as you'll not go up close against a blaster boat anyway.
Tiericide devalued the utiltiy neut slots quite a bit though, I'd even go as far as saying that a lot of the current issues could simply be band-aided by just converting 1 nos/neut slot to another turret. But then it would not be minmatar anymore but a slightly different flavour of gallente. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |