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pyr8t
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Posted - 2006.04.24 18:56:00 -
[1]
IĘve never flown a HAC, IĘm not even skilled for it, even if I was I have no desire to fly itą but it seems a day doesnĘt go by without a ōzomg HAC prices are out of control!ö post here, so I figured IĘd add my few cents.
HAC prices are out of control because of the lottery system CCP has implementedą. ItĘs basically a communist system that has zero flexibility in a free market.
Demand for HACs is higher than the supply, so prices increase. Everyone understands this. This system is all fine and well in a vacuum where demand never changesą. But this isnĘt the case. CCP is obviously unable to correctly predict the HAC demand so please allow the players to do it themselvesą. By abolishing this socialist/communist ęlotteryĘ system currently in place (whatever it is itĘs not a free market system, thatĘs for damn sure).
Further compounding the above problemą. You have mega rich players hoarding the few BPOĘs in existence with the sole purpose to monopolize the marketą. So the entire HAC market is basically run by a few individualsą who are then able to fix the prices. The end result it what we have today. Price gouging.
A lottery system is completely retarded and needs to be taken out altogether. CCP will never be able to correctly ępredictĘ the demand for anything in game. HAC prices are the perfect example of this.
The solution is to get rid of the lottery system. Make BPOĘs a quest reward or a drop reward with a certain % chance to drop each time itĘs done/repeated. This way determined players will get a BPO at some point if they grind through the ōquestö or whatever it is enough timesą. But itĘs fair because everyone has an equal opportunityą. And the market can work itself out.
A lottery system does NOT promote competition (and therefore stable/ competitive prices) and never will. This lottery system needs to die for the health of the game.
The only people who would oppose such a system are those holding all the BPOĘs, because they realize it means they actually have to lower prices in order to compete (perish the thought).
Anyone who promotes a free market system will oppose the lottery system.
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mechtech
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Posted - 2006.04.24 19:18:00 -
[2]
You have a point, but creating a grind system is certainly not the direction that we need to be moving in.
Adding the option to cash in research points for BPCs would help the problem, as the most profitible blueprints would be chosen for the BPCs, lowering the prices, and creating more of an equilibrium and a self-balancing system.
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pyr8t
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Posted - 2006.04.24 19:28:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: mechtech
You have a point, but creating a grind system is certainly not the direction that we need to be moving in.
Adding the option to cash in research points for BPCs would help the problem, as the most profitible blueprints would be chosen for the BPCs, lowering the prices, and creating more of an equilibrium and a self-balancing system.
There already is a 'grind' in place. It's the greatest grind of all: making ISK.
Aside from that, mission running for LP is a grind. There already are 'grinds' in the game, don't think that there aren't. It doesn't have to be a bad grind, certainly not any worse than what we already have... but either way you look at it it's the best solution over the competition stifling 'lotttery system' we have now.
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mechtech
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Posted - 2006.04.24 21:49:00 -
[4]
Well, if it was a random drop, that would be a lottery. And if it was a quest reward, people would grind that mission instead of grinding for isk until the BPO value fell. This would create problems, as eventually HAC prices would probably go down to 2-300% markup.
HACs that cost 30 mil would be a bad thing for eve, they need to be around BS price, as they are just as good in many arenas, and much more fun. I agree that there must be a better way, but creating a grind would not be a good solution. I think BPCs given out as rewards is a good one.
Here's a new one, rewards for the new factional warfare system maybe?
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pyr8t
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Posted - 2006.04.24 22:00:00 -
[5]
Edited by: pyr8t on 24/04/2006 22:03:01
The random drop isn't a lottery. It wouldn't be random... there's a % chance each time 'it' is done.
It's also controlable in the sense that you can repeat it, so over time your chances of recieving something increase....
To clarify a little i'm not only referring to HAC BPO's but the entire BPO system, I only mention HAC's as an illustration.
And the whole point is to bring competition into the marketą so yes, prices will fall to a manageable level. But profits will still be made by those who keep their costs down.
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Kaladr
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Posted - 2006.04.24 22:06:00 -
[6]
HAC prices aren't supposed to be low markup like T1 prices. Hence there is a very limited supply of them. Consider it like a patent to make HACs, and a select few get the rights to make it. Its not a perfect emulation of the real world, but its how it works in EVEland.
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EVE-Central.com | Obsidian Technologies - 0.0 Manufacturing, Defense and Logistics. We're hiring! Mail me |
Nathan Grey
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Posted - 2006.04.24 23:20:00 -
[7]
HACs have an inelastic supply BY DESIGN. Thus, CCP intentionally created the system that gave rise to the current HAC prices.
It. Is. By. Design.
STOP POSTING NEW THREADS!!!
----------------------------------
Industrialist. I build it. You buy it. You break it and buy another one.
Market domination through ingue ferrogue.
(I did this and could have stopped it.) |
Trina Tron
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Posted - 2006.04.25 00:34:00 -
[8]
their are 2 hacs per race 4 races and 20 bpos per hac considering a hac print would be around 30b isk that would require
2.4zillon isk I would say that their is simply to much capital required for a few to do the kind of minuplation you are talking about. Not to mention people their are lots of other t2 ships far to much to fix the market.
We just need the devs to change the build time on hac prints to 50% of what it is and bam simple solution to solve a simple problem
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Kasibee'an
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Posted - 2006.04.25 01:15:00 -
[9]
How many times does this need to be reiterated?
Quote:
Next-Gen Research & Development
Next step in Research & Development, utilizing Reverse Engineering and changes to Research Agents. Reverse engineering enables players with the right tools, skills, items and knowledge to get inefficient limited run blueprint-copies.
This is what will bring the system into some form of balance. Every man and their dog is going to be reverse engineering hacs and nobody is going to be researching 75mm Gatling Gun II's.
As stated by a Dev, there is and always will be some form of lottery. Get over it!
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Eve II
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Posted - 2006.04.25 02:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Nathan Grey
HACs have an inelastic supply BY DESIGN. Thus, CCP intentionally created the system that gave rise to the current HAC prices.
It. Is. By. Design.
STOP POSTING NEW THREADS!!!
It also was seeded for less than 1/2 of todays player base.
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Lutien
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Posted - 2006.04.26 08:11:00 -
[11]
if i am not mistaken, after all the bpo are droped, ccp will hold acctions for all bpo, the 75 mm rail will not be bought the hac's will.
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Dissaster
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Posted - 2006.04.27 12:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: pyr8t
...
omg i have a feeling you just came to eve directly from wow or other silkroad, cause all this stuff you said about questing and grinding...
grinding is bad. we dont need omfgpnz0r24hrsperday grinders here, there are a bunch of other games where grind is equal to be best. lottery system is all ok, it pays of for some people, others wait years for bpo and dont get any of them. tech 2 items are way better than tech 1, and they are some kind of 'elite'. it means that not every one can buy/use them. if you cant handle hac prices just move along and fly some bs.
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Ferrosa
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Posted - 2006.04.27 13:22:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dissaster
Originally by: pyr8t
...
omg i have a feeling you just came to eve directly from wow or other silkroad, cause all this stuff you said about questing and grinding...
grinding is bad. we dont need omfgpnz0r24hrsperday grinders here, there are a bunch of other games where grind is equal to be best. lottery system is all ok, it pays of for some people, others wait years for bpo and dont get any of them. tech 2 items are way better than tech 1, and they are some kind of 'elite'. it means that not every one can buy/use them. if you cant handle hac prices just move along and fly some bs.
Signed!
The EVE Galactic Stock Exchange |
Cell Satimo
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Posted - 2006.04.27 17:48:00 -
[14]
Oh contrair, Limited supply of Tech II BPOs makes Eve far more interesting. Lottery FTW.
The only other acceptable choice would be a system where you could research a blueprint for certain features, creating a plethora of 'Satimo Shipyards' uber HACS because I can run research on 200+ Simultaneous jobs with all the characters I started on trial accounts and pay for using Timecards bought on the forums, paid courtesy of my hard-earned Tech II BPOs I bought by trading minerals. 
Hacs are expensive because people keep buying them at high prices. The lottery is like it is, it's an aspect of the game, Live with it.
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Bsport
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Posted - 2006.04.27 20:14:00 -
[15]
i'm sorry but the only ppl that can surly be happy with tech 2 prices are either producers or ppl that have access to them at a reduced price.
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slothe
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Posted - 2006.04.27 22:30:00 -
[16]
Edited by: slothe on 27/04/2006 22:31:17
answer = dont fly a hac?
their overated anyways.
"out of control" ?
its simple market economics. the only people who complain about their prices are people that cant afford them.
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Dissaster
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Posted - 2006.04.28 10:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bsport
i'm sorry but the only ppl that can surly be happy with tech 2 prices are either producers or ppl that have access to them at a reduced price.
i dont have any t2 bpo
i dont have any acces to cheap t2 stuff
but im still happy about all those t2 lottery system, and about the fact, that t2 means elite.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.28 10:39:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 28/04/2006 10:39:12
Originally by: pyr8t
IĘve never flown a HAC, IĘm not even skilled for it, even if I was I have no desire to fly itą but it seems a day doesnĘt go by without a ōzomg HAC prices are out of control!ö post here, so I figured IĘd add my few cents.
HAC prices are out of control because of the lottery system CCP has implementedą. ItĘs basically a communist system that has zero flexibility in a free market.
Demand for HACs is higher than the supply, so prices increase. Everyone understands this. This system is all fine and well in a vacuum where demand never changesą. But this isnĘt the case. CCP is obviously unable to correctly predict the HAC demand so please allow the players to do it themselvesą. By abolishing this socialist/communist ęlotteryĘ system currently in place (whatever it is itĘs not a free market system, thatĘs for damn sure).
Further compounding the above problemą. You have mega rich players hoarding the few BPOĘs in existence with the sole purpose to monopolize the marketą. So the entire HAC market is basically run by a few individualsą who are then able to fix the prices. The end result it what we have today. Price gouging.
A lottery system is completely retarded and needs to be taken out altogether. CCP will never be able to correctly ępredictĘ the demand for anything in game. HAC prices are the perfect example of this.
The solution is to get rid of the lottery system. Make BPOĘs a quest reward or a drop reward with a certain % chance to drop each time itĘs done/repeated. This way determined players will get a BPO at some point if they grind through the ōquestö or whatever it is enough timesą. But itĘs fair because everyone has an equal opportunityą. And the market can work itself out.
A lottery system does NOT promote competition (and therefore stable/ competitive prices) and never will. This lottery system needs to die for the health of the game.
The only people who would oppose such a system are those holding all the BPOĘs, because they realize it means they actually have to lower prices in order to compete (perish the thought).
Anyone who promotes a free market system will oppose the lottery system.
Turning the T2 system (which is currently fine) into a grind is stupid.
The problem is simple: only 15 of each HAC are built every day. That's it. Low supply, compounded by the fact that many HAC BPOs are owned by alliances like the MC and BoB that use them to subsidise prices for members, supply is EXTREMELY limited.
Doubling the number of HAC BPOs would go a long way to vastly increasing supply and lowering prices.
Originally by: Bsport
i'm sorry but the only ppl that can surly be happy with tech 2 prices are either producers or ppl that have access to them at a reduced price.
I'm actually fine with HAC prices. It means that when I kill them, my enemy loses that much more.
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