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dalman
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Posted - 2006.04.25 12:00:00 -
[31]
Edited by: dalman on 25/04/2006 12:04:35
 Originally by: Wesley Harding
EVE Fact: Damage > Tanking. You'd be better off with a CNR using lots of Precision Cruise. Probably cheaper too.
And who are you to say that?
No, you're completely wrong (when it comes to 1vs1).
Even pre-RMR, tanking > damage in a 1vs1 fight.
And on the topic,
do the math on if you really should have PDS in the lows.
Been too long since I flew a raven myself, but you might be better with;
2 RCU to be able to fit nos in the highs (or are you out of CPU?) or 1x RCU and 1 damage control (adds a bit extra shield resist, + some armor/hull buffert).
Am I forced to have any regret?
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In my righteous own mind
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.04.25 13:08:00 -
[32]
Originally by: dalman
Edited by: dalman on 25/04/2006 12:04:35
Originally by: Wesley Harding
EVE Fact: Damage > Tanking. You'd be better off with a CNR using lots of Precision Cruise. Probably cheaper too.
And who are you to say that?
No, you're completely wrong (when it comes to 1vs1).
Even pre-RMR, tanking > damage in a 1vs1 fight.
And on the topic,
do the math on if you really should have PDS in the lows.
Been too long since I flew a raven myself, but you might be better with;
2 RCU to be able to fit nos in the highs (or are you out of CPU?) or 1x RCU and 1 damage control (adds a bit extra shield resist, + some armor/hull buffert).
I have to agree here, tanking is considerably more important than damage in small fights since it allows you to continue dealing damage for longer. Of course in medium sized fleets then having tank / gank splits is also useful.
sgb
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K'tan Sin
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Posted - 2006.04.25 14:10:00 -
[33]
Short on CPU so it would probably be an RCU and CPU, but i was just thinking about this setup, it won't be the one i use in the end, just wanted to know what could beat it so i could counter for it ;)
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O Thief
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Posted - 2006.04.25 14:21:00 -
[34]
Many Dominix have ECM as standard (three multi's is common) which would leave you jammed about 30-50% of the time, reducing your DPS by over half including relocking time.
A dual rep nos-Domi with ECM (fairly standard setup) would have no problems sucking your Raven dry, tanking you, then killing you.
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K'tan Sin
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Posted - 2006.04.25 14:30:00 -
[35]
If i WERE to fly this into 0.0 i would be accomponied by a cov ops or tackler anyway, that is irrelavent, but you all assum i am going to be within around 10km, seeings as how torps can fire at with NO skills or bonuses is 30km i would probably be sitting at around 50km. a volley of EMP missiles then switch to explosive on any domi / scorp and its going to go down IMO, but i cant really say that as all PVP depends on the circumstances, i just wanted some theoritcal ones to see what could/couldnt kill me so i could try and counter measure it, i see i need to swap one mid for a remote sensor damn or a jammer myself so... We shall see =)
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K'tan Sin
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Posted - 2006.04.25 14:42:00 -
[36]
Updated the setup with 2 x DG INVULS, i think it would give a better total resistance tbh
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O Thief
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Posted - 2006.04.25 14:45:00 -
[37]
Originally by: K'tan Sin
If i WERE to fly this into 0.0 i would be accomponied by a cov ops or tackler anyway, that is irrelavent, but you all assum i am going to be within around 10km, seeings as how torps can fire at with NO skills or bonuses is 30km i would probably be sitting at around 50km. a volley of EMP missiles then switch to explosive on any domi / scorp and its going to go down IMO, but i cant really say that as all PVP depends on the circumstances, i just wanted some theoritcal ones to see what could/couldnt kill me so i could try and counter measure it, i see i need to swap one mid for a remote sensor damn or a jammer myself so... We shall see =)
How exactly is it going to go down when you are sitting at 30km?
A Domi will just Nos your tackler dry (or jam it - a nos/ecm domi can disable a small fleet of tacklers in seconds) then warp off.
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K'tan Sin
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Posted - 2006.04.25 14:50:00 -
[38]
Well i count them retreating as a win tbh =)
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Laboratus
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:47:00 -
[39]
Originally by: smallgreenblur
You have... no idea what you are talking about.
Firstly, stabs nerf your setup. Yes they allow you to get away, but who wants to run away from a good fight? But if you want to fit them, go for it. And mind out for interdictors. And bumping.
First of all: The most effective pvp pilots I have personally seen in action and in my crosshairs  have all flown with stabs.
Example one: Painball. Formerly of ATUK now in BOB. Has a full set of stabs. We've had 3 points of warp jam on him, and he still got away. Look him up. Eaven though out of prinsiple he is KOS, still I have to respect his skills.
Example two: Burn Eden.
They fly with a full set of stabs and have an efectiveness rate of 1348%. The numbers speak for them selves...
BTW: when have you last seen an interdictor fly solo ganking people? And do you really suggest that an interdictor could tank a raven for long?
Originally by: smallgreenblur
Secondly, ecm does not have a stacking penalty. Each jammer is calculated seperately, so a racial jammer with a strength of say 8 has a 25% chance of jamming my 32 strength domi. As does the next one, and the next one, etc. If you want to work out exact probabilities you need to do it the stats way, with 1- (probability of not being jammed). I cba.
Thanks, I was not quite clear on that.
Originally by: smallgreenblur
Thirdly, sensor dampners do have a stacking penalty. This means that after 4 there is not much point using any. 4 good damps will, however, reduce your range from 70ks to about 10ks. There are easy ways to get around this. 1) engage close range. Your enemy just wasted many of his midslots. 2) make sure you lock everything before you are dampened, which will negate the increased time penalty. 3) in my experience very few people use sensor dampners because of the above drawbacks, tracking disruptors and ecm are more effective.
This is why the cloak. You can choose your targets and the boosters and amps make it certain that you target first and if you know what you are doing you can insta damp your targets
Originally by: smallgreenblur
Fourthly, torps do excellent damage to bs, cruise just don't have the stopping power to break bs tanks. On the other hand, cruise do just fine against smaller ships. It's a trade-off, cruise is probably the better solo setup and torps are excellent in gangs.
Actually we field tested this and if you are not sitting idly wating for death cruises actually do more damage. Something to do with explosion radious and velocity or something.
Originally by: smallgreenblur
Fifthly, if you want to 'gank ships of a certain race' you can do it in a vexor with 2 racial jammers on, you don't need an officer tooled up raven to do it. What's more, if you engage a target on a gate or station and 'target first, jam first' the target just tanks for a while then docks or jumps.
One word. Bubbles. Target warps in. At 40 km from the gate. Inside a bubble. How can you insta jump from this situation? Do you have a skill that increases gate activation range? I still haven't seen anyone who can do that. If you know how to do this please let me know. Would have saved me a ship or two...
After all, ideal setups vary on the situation you are in. I for example don't fly solo. I always have a backup or two.
-Lab
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O Thief
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Posted - 2006.04.25 15:55:00 -
[40]
Originally by: K'tan Sin
Well i count them retreating as a win tbh =)
And whats to stop him warping back at optimal?
All I'm saying - is that yes, its a nice setup, but its VERY beatable.
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2006.04.25 16:12:00 -
[41]
I'd just like to say, no s-hit sherlock that ecm would beat it, it would beat an non-eccm setup bs even if it had 20bil of modules on.
Very hardcore tank.
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.25 16:16:00 -
[42]
Originally by: K'tan Sin
Originally by: Darwinia
An EW Suckadomi would eventually kill it 
Yea, i think the only setups to be able to kill this would be EW. Lets just remove EW as not that many people i know fly around equipped with an EW setup =P.
who do you know? 
Win a Cerberus!!
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K'tan Sin
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Posted - 2006.04.25 16:24:00 -
[43]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: K'tan Sin
Originally by: Darwinia
An EW Suckadomi would eventually kill it
Yea, i think the only setups to be able to kill this would be EW. Lets just remove EW as not that many people i know fly around equipped with an EW setup =P.
who do you know?
How many people do you know that fly around in a dominix with nos and ECM?
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O Thief
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Posted - 2006.04.25 16:24:00 -
[44]
Never forget the Golden RuleÖ of battleship 1v1's in EVE....... if you see a Domi, RUN!
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Mr Trouble
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Posted - 2006.04.25 16:25:00 -
[45]
Originally by: K'tan Sin
How many people do you know that fly around in a dominix with nos and ECM?
Er, thats the standard PvP Domi setup 
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K'tan Sin
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Posted - 2006.04.25 16:27:00 -
[46]
Well every domi i've taken on (bar a couple) havent had ECM equipped =/ so if its standard.. they must all be stupid
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Katsumoto
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Posted - 2006.04.25 16:28:00 -
[47]
Originally by: K'tan Sin
How many people do you know that fly around in a dominix with nos and ECM?
are you being sarcastic there? 
"White light. Doo doo too doo. alcohol, alcohol, alcohol, white light!" |
K'tan Sin
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Posted - 2006.04.25 16:28:00 -
[48]
Originally by: O Thief
Never forget the Golden RuleÖ of battleship 1v1's in EVE....... if you see a Domi, RUN!
Unless theres 2 of you =P
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Mr Trouble
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Posted - 2006.04.25 16:31:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Mr Trouble on 25/04/2006 16:31:14
Originally by: K'tan Sin
Well every domi i've taken on (bar a couple) havent had ECM equipped =/ so if its standard.. they must all be stupid
Well its definately a very common PvP setup, and well documented. I would *expect* any decent PvPer to have his setup like that, but there are always some jokers who don't know how to setup their ships.
But, trust me, if you run into a decent Domi pilot who isnt a nublet, you are dead.
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K'tan Sin
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Posted - 2006.04.25 16:37:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Katsumoto
Originally by: K'tan Sin
How many people do you know that fly around in a dominix with nos and ECM?
are you being sarcastic there?
No, i'm not, i dont usually come on the forums and every domi i've run into like i said bar a few hasn't fit ECM, sorry i'm meant to be psychic and all knowing, must have left that implant in my other clone...
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2006.04.25 16:37:00 -
[51]
how about this for a slight variation of the op setup:
Seige uptop with nos (ofc)
3x hypnos multi, gist xlarge SB, DG invul, cap booster
pdu, dmg control, 3x bcu
7x medium ecm drones in bay
evil.... yes. Would it beat the ever popular jamming sukdomi... i dont know 
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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.04.25 16:37:00 -
[52]
Unfortunately all that works 1v1 is a high base dmg BS with little cap need for weapon systems, some ecm capability and a low slot tank... everything (more or less) that doesnt fit this bill will die to everything that does.
Raven with EW - painter - tackling mids and armour tank would kill everything more or less. Same with usual Nos+EW Domi set up. One against the other it will depend on who EWs better (usually the Raven) and whether the Raven pilot is on of those who know how to cycle a smart bomb to kill enemy drones while not killing own torps etc (same for a Domi but less pg for smartbombs on it).
As for things posted in this thread:
- tank is indeed better than gank and nos better than either and EW better than all three in today's ridiculous pvp fights.
- Sensor strangth mods dont work. 1 racial on a stilletto with skills can keep a Raven with an upgrade mod jammed 50% of the time = 1 dead Raven. If skills are released that up your sensor strength in the same way the EW skills up your jamming strength then flying solo without EW fitted might again become a feasible proposition... atm EW rulz all and it sux big time 
(And no I ususally win due to EW rather than lose cause of it and I still find it disgusting I am just doing my best to survive  )
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K'tan Sin
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Posted - 2006.04.25 16:39:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Dr Fighter
how about this for a slight variation of the op setup:
Seige uptop with nos (ofc)
3x hypnos multi, gist xlarge SB, DG invul, cap booster
pdu, dmg control, 3x bcu
7x medium ecm drones in bay
evil.... yes. Would it beat the ever popular jamming sukdomi... i dont know
Why not leave the jamming up to the drones in this case? and have more invul/hardners
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2006.04.25 16:42:00 -
[54]
Originally by: K'tan Sin
Originally by: Dr Fighter
how about this for a slight variation of the op setup:
Seige uptop with nos (ofc)
3x hypnos multi, gist xlarge SB, DG invul, cap booster
pdu, dmg control, 3x bcu
7x medium ecm drones in bay
evil.... yes. Would it beat the ever popular jamming sukdomi... i dont know
Why not leave the jamming up to the drones in this case? and have more invul/hardners
Drones can be killed off by other drones and of course the target, just as an extra jammy buffer before they get killed off - buy some extra time for a few extra vollys (and vollys of torps from multiple dmg mods hurts alot, javalins loaded for longer range/smaller targets).
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Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
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Posted - 2006.04.25 16:45:00 -
[55]
did you check if that would fit?
Caldari - Tier 3 BS |
Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2006.04.25 16:47:00 -
[56]
i very much doubt you'd be able to fit heavy nos, the rest looks ok tho but ive not checked to see if it fits.
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Calypse
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Posted - 2006.04.25 17:58:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Darwinia
An EW Suckadomi would eventually kill it
I don't think so. As a Raven pilot I can assure you your Domi would be wasted long before you can kill the Raven.
You might target-jam the Raven, for sure, but that's what FoF missiles are for. If you're close enough for EW then you're within the 75km missile envelope of FoF cruise missiles... and on a Raven that's about 200 damage per second (assuming your resistance to the missiles' particular damage is 40%)
And then there's the drone damage.
My advice to the Raven pilot would be (assuming a 1 on 1 fight) to go for Gist Large SB instead of XL : the remaining boost should still be more than enough to tank the Domi and you get to run the booster a lot longer, even if you cap gets sucked by the Domi.
And if you go as far as using a CN Raven... well not only does your shield get a 50% HP bonus off the bat but you also increase your missile damage output by 17%... so there's no contest there.
Calypse
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Justice Bringer
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Posted - 2006.04.25 18:16:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Angus Torg
You better avoid the crazy and rich Claymore pilots.
Claymore
5 * 425mm Autocannon II
3 * Medium Nosferatu II
1 * Pith Large Shield Booster
2 * Gistii Shield Boost Amplifier
2 * Invulnerbilty Field II
1 * Srambler :-)
4 * Power Diagnostics System II
I re-used your equipment. With "normal" skills, the Claymore should boost around 306 HP/sec. The weakest point would be kinetic damage with only 67% resistance.
If you use Anti-Ship Torpedoes, then you will sacrifice cap recharge and will do around 760 raw DPS, what results in 250 dmg/sec. I will survive forever.
If you use normal torpedoes, you will have around 500 raw DPS/sec - 165 dmg/sec. Won't scratch me too bad.
Of course, my Autocannons won't hurt you too much. 200 raw DPS. But, I will drain 18 cap/sec (which will run my systems). And since you cannot warp away, I will suck you dry. It may take long, but you will end up with no cap. Or, no torps. Or both. Or without a ship.
Remember, there's always a bigger fish.
You may well run out of ammo before you bleed his cap dry and then it will be down to who has more drones left if he too is out of ammo.
But a Raven has a larger cargo bay and so should be able to carry a significant amount more ammo than most others.
The setup is a good one nonetheless, but agreed not invincible.
Justice 
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Golden Jenni
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Posted - 2006.04.25 18:35:00 -
[59]
i use something close
6x siege ll
gist x-type xl booster
3x DG invul field
1x gist x-type boost amp
1x cap injector
3x bcu ll
2x fitting mods
and use javeling torps
or i use
6x siege ll
gist x-type xl booster
EM hardener ll
cap ingector
3x target painter ll
4x bcu ll
1x fitting mod
use rage torps the 3x painters bring them up to full dmg so you do 1050dps from the torps then use ogre ll's as the drones
not much lasts long against either setup
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