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Rework the Drone Interfacing skill

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Benny Ohu Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence 2663	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:18:00 - [1] - Quote Hi Drone Interfacing adds +20% damage to drones per level. The bonus is so huge that players who want to use droneships don't feel comfortable leaving it at IV. I think players should feel comfortable leaving nearly any skill at IV. This affects the newbie who wants to spec into drones most, as they need to train a 20-day skill almost straight away. With other weapons, skills can safely be left at IV. This creates a bigger barrier between vets and newbies. This is made more important now that drones are being treated more as a 'primary' weapon like guns and missiles, instead of the 'secondary' weapon they used to be. Split the Drone Interfacing skill into two skills: 'Rank 2, 5% increase to drone damage and mining amount' and 'rank 3, 5% increase to drone rate of fire and mining drone cycle speed'. Then increase base drone damage so that the DPS with both skills at V is the same as it is currently with Drone Interfacing at V. This fits more consistently with the 'short train to generalise, long train to specialise' skill training progression you see in other skill trees. If the skills are ranks 2 and 3, the combined training time for both at any level is the same as training Drone Interfacing to that level. This means Drone Interfacing is easy to replace - anyone with Drone Interfacing trained to a certain level will recieve both new skills at that level, with any partially trained SP reimbursed. In the end, anyone with Drone Interfacing trained to level five will see no difference in DPS, but everyone else will see an increase. There is one side-effect. Drones will have lower alpha and higher rate of fire. This means a lot when it comes to Sentry drones.
Corraidhin Farsaidh Hello-There 282	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:23:00 - [2] - Quote As a drone boat pilot I'm actually happy as it is, I have been fine with this at level III and am only now investing time into the skill as I'm moving up to an ishtar. The only change I would make is that the most drones a pilot can be in control of is drone interfacing + advanced drone interfacing ( a total of 10 fully skilled). This would include the pilots own drones and any assisting drones. I know that its been cut to 50 but I would had taken this route myself.
Benny Ohu Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence 2663	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:28:00 - [3] - Quote Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: As a drone boat pilot I'm actually happy as it is, I have been fine with this at level III and am only now investing time into the skill as I'm moving up to an ishtar. The only change I would make is that the most drones a pilot can be in control of is drone interfacing + advanced drone interfacing ( a total of 10 fully skilled). This would include the pilots own drones and any assisting drones. I know that its been cut to 50 but I would had taken this route myself. I'm told that's the way the skill used to work. And if you've been flying drone boats with the skill at III you're crazy D:
Corraidhin Farsaidh Hello-There 283	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:37:00 - [4] - Quote Other priorities on time (as ever...). Now I can invent and make as many ishtars as I need along with the drones to go with it :)
Batelle HOMELE55 2230	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:50:00 - [5] - Quote Damage drones all have 4s cycle times for a reason, and DDAs don't affect drone RoF for a reason. I assume whatever that reason was is still valid today. I guess I don't particularly care if the skill is reduced to 10% per level with a across teh board buff to drone damage to compensate. This makes it less of a loss if you don't have level5 yet. But the only reason to split into two skills would be so you could train one to 5 sooner and the other to 5 later if you didn't want to do both at once. Either way it seems to be working fine, and any benefits to be gained from this change (especially splitting the skill into two) seem incredibly minor. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.
fluffy jo Universal Exports 4	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:51:00 - [6] - Quote Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: As a drone boat pilot I'm actually happy as it is, I have been fine with this at level III and am only now investing time into the skill as I'm moving up to an ishtar. The only change I would make is that the most drones a pilot can be in control of is drone interfacing + advanced drone interfacing ( a total of 10 fully skilled). This would include the pilots own drones and any assisting drones. I know that its been cut to 50 but I would had taken this route myself. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Advanced_Drone_Interfacing just for info the that skill ... "Allows the use of the Drone Control Unit module. One extra module can be fitted per skill level. Each fitted Drone Control Unit allows the operation of one extra drone. " the "Drone Control Unit" can only be fitted the Carriers.and super Carriers https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Drone_Control_Unit_I "Gives you one extra drone. You need Advanced Drone Interfacing to use this module, it gives you the ability to fit one drone control unit per level." for info ... the maximum number of drones you can launch yourself is for any sub capital ship. there is an exception of a rare guardian vexor, but that costs quite a bit.. so for your Ishtar you can store many drones, but can only launch 5 yourself. hope that helps.
Benny Ohu Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence 2663	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:01:00 - [7] - Quote Batelle wrote: Damage drones all have 4s cycle times for a reason, and DDAs don't affect drone RoF for a reason. I assume whatever that reason was is still valid today. I guess I don't particularly care if the skill is reduced to 10% per level with a across teh board buff to drone damage to compensate. This makes it less of a loss if you don't have level5 yet. But the only reason to split into two skills would be so you could train one to 5 sooner and the other to 5 later if you didn't want to do both at once. Either way it seems to be working fine, and any benefits to be gained from this change (especially splitting the skill into two) seem incredibly minor. the point of making the skill into two was to make it more consistent with the gunnery and missiles skill trees, which have a larger number of 'DPS' skills each with a 5% or 2% buff. much nicer progression than 'train this big skill now'. i think having a skill progression that feels consistant is very important. EVE's system is 'take a short time to get good, take a long time to get better' which works very well with keeping newbies kinda-competitive with vets, and Drone Interfacing breaks that rule. that's why it's a bad skill - it tells you 'train right up to the top right now, be bored in the meantime' i don't want to speculate on drone cycle time.
Corraidhin Farsaidh Hello-There 283	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:04:00 - [8] - Quote @fluffy Thanks for the detail though I already understood that. I meant that combining the two skills could be use to determine the maximum number of drones any individual pilot can direct onto a target. The total would be made up from any drones they control + any assisting drones. A fully skilled drone pilot in an incursus for instance would still control 10 drones at max, but 9 (at least) would have to be assisting drones from other players.
Anhenka Daktaklakpak. Red Coat Conspiracy 365	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:12:00 - [9] - Quote 1. Server load: Drone boats are disproportionately heavier on server strain than gunships, changing them to 10 drone apiece would result in a large jump. Part of the reason why CCP nerfed drone assist to prevent them being as heavily used in large fights. 2. Drone bay capacity: If you double the number of drones a person can control, you will also need to either double the maximum size of their drone bay or half the drone sizes, and either double the bandwith or half the bandwith need. 3. Ewar Drones: Would need to halve strength of ewar drones to avoid a doubling of their power. 4. Drone health: Killing drones is a perfectly good strategy for lots of tackle frigs. Doubling the number of drones makes that much more difficult to achieve. And yet we can't half drone health without major nullsec implications where a single bomb would wipe out drones. Effect is only magnified on ships with a drone health bonus. 5. Carrier Nerf: A max skill carrier with senty drones gets 5 base + 5 from carrier * 2 = 20 effective drones, a carrier under the new plan get 5 base + 5 from carrier + 5 more * 1 = 15 effective drones. Would need a buff to the carrier in order to stay in the same place.
Benny Ohu Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence 2663	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:19:00 - [10] - Quote Anhenka wrote: you're not wrong but i'd prefer discussing the op please
Anhenka Daktaklakpak. Red Coat Conspiracy 365	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:36:00 - [11] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: Anhenka wrote: you're not wrong but i'd prefer discussing the op please These are the issues with the changes you are proposing. I am discussing the OP. Edit: Ok, so maybe I mistook the second post with the OP, and replied to that one, one sec.
Benny Ohu Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence 2666	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:34:00 - [12] - Quote Anhenka wrote: Drone interfacing just seems like far too powerful of a skill as it already exists for just being a 5x. Especially since it effects every single drone in the entire drone tree, to an effect far far greater than any gunnery skill does for guns. yeh that's the point of the thread, really Anhenka wrote: Benny Ohu wrote: Split the Drone Interfacing skill into two skills: 'Rank 2, 5% increase to drone damage and mining amount' and 'rank 3, 5% increase to drone rate of fire and mining drone cycle speed'. Then increase base drone damage so that the DPS with both skills at V is the same as it is currently with Drone Interfacing at V. Wait, so you are proposing a flat 20% increase in drone damage to begin with? Even before any skills are required? So that people in an already exceptionally short skilltree to reach max damage with what is now considered a "Primary weapon system" now have an even shorter time and smaller skill increments till they reach nearly max at 4's, then max at V that takes the same amount of time as the previous V, but can be broken into smaller chunks? ... I'd say take the drone interfacing skill, split it up into say 4 different 3x skills that combined have the same effect as drone interfacing V, and don't touch the base amount. Drone training time needs no buffs as it is. vOv drones skills certainly have issues. i don't object to different solutions, i'm glad we're seeing the same problem
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 1039	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:35:00 - [13] - Quote I think the skill should increase drone damage by 5% per level. In order to make drones deal the same damage at drone interfacing 5, their base damage should be increased by 60%. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
Ines Tegator Towels R Us 427	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:42:00 - [14] - Quote For whatever it's worth, the skill dates back to when 10 drones were allowed at a time and before bandwidth existed. DI added +1 drone per level then. To fight server load, they dropped the cap to 5 and made Drone Interfacing double their damage instead. So it's kind of a legacy skill. Honestly I don't have a problem with it and leave it at 4 myself (not a dedicated drone pilot). Because skill bonuses are additive and not multiplicative, it's not actually a full 20% difference between 4 and 5. - Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there?
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 1039	Posted - 2014.03.13 22:41:00 - [15] - Quote Ines Tegator wrote: Because skill bonuses are additive and not multiplicative, it's not actually a full 20% difference between 4 and 5. They are additive within themselves but multiplicative (cumulative) with others. Training Drone Interfacing 5 increases your drone DPS by 11.1%, about equal to the damage difference between a meta 1 and meta 4 weapon. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 1172	Posted - 2014.03.13 23:27:00 - [16] - Quote Drones are already very good out of the box, i dnt want to add 40-60% to their already good unskilled damage. splitting the skill doesnt sound like a bad idea, though im happy how it is. or separate drone interfacing into scout, heavy and sentry variants... or make combat drones and heavy drones 25% skill boosts, and make drone interfacing a 2-3% boost kinda like warhead upgrades. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 1043	Posted - 2014.03.14 00:54:00 - [17] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Drones are already very good out of the box No, they aren't. Edit: Comparison between Tristan and Incursus on a character with level 3 Gallente Frigate, Gunnery, Small Hybrid Turret, Rapid Firing, Drones, Scout Drone Operation, and using Hobgoblin I and Light Neutron Blaster I with antimatter ammo: Tristan DPS: 35.0 turret // 18.0 drone // 53.0 total Incursus DPS: 60.4 turret // 6.0 drone // 66.4 total Comparison between Tristan and Incursus with max skills, and using Hobgoblin I and Light Neutron Blaster with antimatter ammo: Tristan DPS: 50.3 turret // 75.0 drone // 125.3 total Incursus DPS: 94.3 turret // 15 drone // 109.3 total Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
Anhenka Daktaklakpak. Red Coat Conspiracy 368	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:11:00 - [18] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Drones are already very good out of the box No, they aren't. How about we not be comparing a blaster frig with a damage bonus to a drone frig with only 60% of it's drones and no damage bonuses at all? Because by the time you hit drones V (A 1x skill many players get extremely early and the minimum basepoint for making comparisons) Tristan will perform better. drone 5 Tristan > small hybrid V Incursus. Making comparisons where one ship can only fit 3/5ths of their primary weapon is a wee bit poor.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 667	Posted - 2014.03.14 03:01:00 - [19] - Quote drone skills havent been changed for a long time and its about time they did.. adv drone interfacing should really be an extension of drone interfacing skill i.e. a damage bonus say 10% damage bonus drone interfacing could be reduced to 10% damage bonus .. simply reduce the x time modifier. remove drones from capitals.. drone link augmentors should require a new specific skill .. drone linking at lv1 for DLA1 and lv5 for DLA2.. EWDI skill should only effect e-war drones add a new skill drone range control 3km control drone range bonus the level would be taken from the EWDI skill when added Adv drone control adds a further 5km drone control range bonus add drone falloff bonus skill drone tracking bonus skill drone orbit velocity bonus skill drone agility bonus skill drone sig reduction bonus skill adv drone durability bonus skill 3% bonus per level Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 1046	Posted - 2014.03.14 03:30:00 - [20] - Quote Anhenka wrote: drone 5 Tristan > small hybrid V Incursus. Making comparisons where one ship can only fit 3/5ths of their primary weapon is a wee bit poor. You clearly didn't examine the numbers I gave very closely. If we chance the low skill character to have drones V and leave everything else the same, then the DPS is: low skills: Tristan: 35.0 // 30.0 // 65.0 Incursus: 60.4 // 6.0 // 66.4 max skills: Tristan: 50.3 // 75.0 // 125.3 Incursus: 94.3 // 15.0 // 109.3 Tristan with 5 poorly skilled drones gets more than half of its DPS from two poorly skilled unbonused blasters. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
Anhenka Daktaklakpak. Red Coat Conspiracy 371	Posted - 2014.03.14 03:34:00 - [21] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Tristan with 5 poorly skilled drones gets more than half of its DPS from two poorly skilled unbonused blasters. And in actual PvP, will still probably do 85% of the damage with it's drones, because ~blasters~
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 1046	Posted - 2014.03.14 03:35:00 - [22] - Quote Anhenka wrote: Because by the time you hit drones V (A 1x skill many players get extremely early and the minimum basepoint for making comparisons) Tristan will perform better. Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Drones are already very good out of the box No, they aren't. I was making a point that drones are not good out of the box. Drones V is not right out of the box. That's nearly a week of training only drones 4 to 5. It's not worth doing earlier than the end of the first month. Any sooner and the character is giving up training time that could be spent on getting lots of important skills to level 3. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 1172	Posted - 2014.03.14 17:19:00 - [23] - Quote drones dnt take any fitting, add quite a decent damage boost to ur ship, have instant 24km range and are immune to e-war. they are good out of the box. and if ur a drone focused pilot, u dnt have to worry about boosting ur dps very early on. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"

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