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Woden OneEye
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Posted - 2006.04.27 10:03:00 -
[1]
Not sure if this has been discussed before, but here goes;
What if you could power a ship down? I.e., make it immobile,unable to use modules, not appear on the overview, or be regularly visible onscreen-not disappear, but not have the easily noticeable player brackets around it. Powering down would just involve pressing a button, no skills or modules, it would be inherent to all ships. It would also make you unable to warp out without powering back up. Let's say 5 or 10 seconds to repower, but 30 or 45 to be able to warp again. This would enable miners and npc'ers to have an effective way to hide in belts if pirates came by, but would also allow pirates to set ambushes. Ideally, it would be introduced along with a special, short-range scanner (maybe 100km) that could be used to locate powered down ships, so that its not an uber "omg a pirate quick hide" feature. Powering down would make recon more accessible to low-level characters, would give noobs a little more courage to head out into low-sec, and let pirates surprise people that aren't paying attention to possible traps.
Something else I'd like to see (not really related to powering down, just another thought) is a warning when someone is about to warp to an area near you, sort of a proximity alert type thing. Haven't really thought about this one as much, just sounds interesting.
Thoughts? Feedback? Flames?
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Lucus Ranger
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Posted - 2006.04.27 10:12:00 -
[2]
I actually like it, although I think it's been mentioned before... Would be great to create ambushes 
Though, what about capital ships  Even when powered down wouldn't they still emite some large power flucturations or some?
Maybe make it signiture radius based...
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4 LOM
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Posted - 2006.04.27 10:15:00 -
[3]
I like your power down idea very neet would add alot to eve. but i think the ability to scan for a powerdown ship should be passed off to either the recon/covertops ships or preferably logistics. so if you want to find a poweredown ship without straining your eyes looking at the screen for a little blip you need to bring a specilized ship with very high quality sensors built in (logistics cruisers would be perfect as they have high sensor skills to begin with so would fit the 'concept' better ie. long range targeting level V is needed for them)
As to your second idea i dont really like it, i wont however rip it apart and flame it because i really like your first idea.
 Originally by: Twilight Moon
of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
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Woden OneEye
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Posted - 2006.04.27 10:26:00 -
[4]
Yea, second idea isn't that great. I thought of it because I have problems with lag occasionally when someone/s warp in and have lost a couple ships because I didn't realize they were heading towards me.
Glad you like the power down one though. Another thought to add to it; should a powered down player be removed from local? Might help fix the local-as-info-gathering-tool problem we have.
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4 LOM
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Posted - 2006.04.27 10:39:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Woden OneEye
Glad you like the power down one though. Another thought to add to it; should a powered down player be removed from local? Might help fix the local-as-info-gathering-tool problem we have.
Thats what i asumed, powerdown ships would be removed from all sensor systems, local and the overveiw (as well as scanners unless scanned for with scan probes)
Originally by: Twilight Moon
of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
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Woden OneEye
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Posted - 2006.04.27 11:00:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Lucus Ranger
Though, what about capital ships Even when powered down wouldn't they still emite some large power flucturations or some?
Maybe make it signiture radius based...
Well, if you're anywhere near a dreadnought it is probably still visible
This isn't like cloaking, you would be able to see a ship onscreen if you were close enough. I like the idea of using signature radius though. Just not sure how to incorporate it, exactly
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Commander Kahn'Alzaor
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Posted - 2006.04.27 12:29:00 -
[7]
i like it, find a really dark system hide behind a roid. it would be great.
except the running lights obviously would need to power down to. the rifters a good damm christmas tree!
or a scorpion lol
All in all i like it and would like to see it with kali. cheaper then cloaking and something anyone can do. Unlike cloaking you need a place to hide :D
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.27 12:53:00 -
[8]
So it takes me minutes to put 2 modules online, but I can power up the entire ship from cold in 45? Right.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Scagga Laebetrovo
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Posted - 2006.04.27 12:54:00 -
[9]
Great idea, but I suggest extending the length of the power up to about 1 minute for a frig, maybe longer for big ships. I can see pirates exploiting this at gates, belts and such if they can power up in a matter of seconds.
A prison with no walls and no chains. We cannot break free for we cannot see what binds |
Woden OneEye
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Posted - 2006.04.27 13:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
So it takes me minutes to put 2 modules online, but I can power up the entire ship from cold in 45? Right.
Well, the times I mentioned were just sort of placeholder stats, it would need to be tested to see what was most feasible. Also, offlining a module seems to me to be cutting it off from the ship completely. This wouldn't necessarily be the same thing. Powered down doesn't mean off, but more on standby. In the real world, it takes longer to turn on a computer that has been turned completely off than it does to get one in hibernation mode back up again. The ship is still "on" per say, its just on standby-enabling it to get back up and running again really quickly. You don't turn your car off completely unless you aren't going anywhere for a while, but when its still on and idle you use less gas than when you're driving down the highway.
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Yurameki Daishun
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Posted - 2006.04.27 14:39:00 -
[11]
only one problem, different systems could detect you even powered down, for example RADAR will pick up any metallic object with great ease, and LADAR which is more of a life signs sensor in most ways, could easily pick up your vitals in your*****pit at range, and the ship would of course then show up because it's manned. You could probably fool Gravitic sensors in small ships because you don't generate much gravity since your cap and warp field generators are all powered down, low graviton rate from a small target, you'd look like an asteroid, but you couldn't fool MAG targetting because like with RADAR, you're made of metal, you might not show up at range because you're not giving off all those extra magentic fields you give off when powered up so detection range should shrink, and since you're cold it would shrink for RADAR too, since cold metal causes issues on RADAR and infrared, but LADAR would be 100% unaffected.
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Woden OneEye
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Posted - 2006.04.27 20:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Yurameki Daishun
only one problem, different systems could detect you even powered down, for example RADAR will pick up any metallic object with great ease, and LADAR which is more of a life signs sensor in most ways, could easily pick up your vitals in your*****pit at range, and the ship would of course then show up because it's manned. You could probably fool Gravitic sensors in small ships because you don't generate much gravity since your cap and warp field generators are all powered down, low graviton rate from a small target, you'd look like an asteroid, but you couldn't fool MAG targetting because like with RADAR, you're made of metal, you might not show up at range because you're not giving off all those extra magentic fields you give off when powered up so detection range should shrink, and since you're cold it would shrink for RADAR too, since cold metal causes issues on RADAR and infrared, but LADAR would be 100% unaffected.
Hmm, these are good points to make. I'm not entirely sure how the different kinds of sensors actually function in-game. Can you explain it to me?
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Viktor Fyretracker
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Posted - 2006.04.27 20:55:00 -
[13]
RADAR is RADAR, however materials exist that make radar null and void. which brings up another idea. "Stealth Plating" it lowers your armor but also lowers your signature radius.
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ragewind
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Posted - 2006.04.27 21:04:00 -
[14]
the idea is good but your ship must stay viserbel in space its cant use a cloke it has nothing to power it.
and the stelth plating is a great idea that i really like
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fix eves industrial sector!
advanced industrial ship |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.27 21:07:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 27/04/2006 21:07:18
Originally by: Woden OneEye
In the real world, it takes longer to turn on a computer that has been turned completely off than it does to get one in hibernation mode back up again.
You can very easily get hibernation to work MUCH faster when you clear away windows bloat tbh...
Viktor Fyretracker, you'd have to be careful on those..could be abuseable on an interceptor.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Woden OneEye
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Posted - 2006.04.27 21:08:00 -
[16]
Yea, the idea is essentially a poor man's cloak. You don't disappear visually, you are just much much harder to find. Once you are found though, if you can't power up before something gets you, you are pretty much screwed.
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Adrian Steel
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Posted - 2006.04.28 00:33:00 -
[17]
Excellent idea. You get Steel points!
______________________
Warp core stabilizers are for MEN! I slap them on like aftershave. |
4 LOM
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Posted - 2006.04.28 01:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker
which brings up another idea. "Stealth Plating" it lowers your armor but also lowers your signature radius.
This thread is just crawling with great ideas..... I need this mod getting really sick of my gigantic caldari signature raduis. Biggest mass, biggest sig radius, and worst sensor resolution = really anoying to fly caldari sometimes. I would love this modual gimmy gimmy gimmy.
Originally by: Twilight Moon
of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
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ArcticFox
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Posted - 2006.04.28 03:11:00 -
[19]
Edited by: ArcticFox on 28/04/2006 03:12:14
Edited by: ArcticFox on 28/04/2006 03:10:51
It would be cool if it just made your ship look like space junk, not possible to add to the overview or show up as player brackets (maybe a sort of generic object icon). Could still be targetted and shot (obviously, otherwise it's just a totally immobilizing cloaking device).
You'd really need to add some generic space debris to likely power down areas (gates, belts, stations) at a low constant level, that came up the same icon as a powered down ship (zoomed way out, obviously once you target it or zoom on it you realize it's a ship not just a bunch of scrap metal). This could fit in very nicely with some kind of scrap salvaging mini-profession, and the addition of dead hulks floating in space from player ships that weren't quite totally destroyed in battle (instead of just the purty explosion that leaves nothing but vapor). Would be awesome to see salvage ships going through a battlefield only to find a dozen of those floating ship corpses suddenly power up and send them all into a panic.
Would also be cool to have some other indication of a big battle having happened recently than 'ooo, look at all the cans.' Obviously the hulks would eventually drift away (ie, dissapear) so things didn't get too cluttered, and not every destroyed ship would leave a hulk or salvageable debris.
Sorry if this seems like a derailment, I really feel something like this would be necessary to add to a power down option, since a ship floating out in space powered down would still stick out like a sore thumb with no other floating objects around to camoflage it.
EDIT: I see nothing in this thread that wouldn't add cool new aspects to pvp and even possibly some new professions for moneymaking. Where is Oveur when we need something added to the drawingboard?
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"There's no +6 Sword of WTFPWN in Eve." - Er... Some person on the forum... |
Ellaine TashMurkon
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Posted - 2006.04.28 09:51:00 -
[20]
This idea fits to totally diffrent ship detection mechanics then we have now.
Currently:
-every ship in range of, i dont know, 1000 km (?), is automatically detected and goes to overview.
-every ship in range of max 4 byte integer, can be detected with scanner.
-every cloaked ship is automatically undetectable.
Your concept fits in a system like this;
-ships are detected at diffrent ranges depending on target signature, source sensor strenghts and perhaps other factors like materials used (t1 and t2 manufacturer specific materials), ship mass, power signature (average cap use per 10 seconds of modules active + grid of modules online) - similar to this idea.
-all those factors culd be reduced to 0.1% to 1% by cloaking devices, efectively making cloaked ship detectable on very low distances like 2-5km or longer (like 10-15km) by ships with very strong sensors. This makes bigger ships not so easy to hide even with cloak (simply cloaked BS wuld need to camp 20km farther to remain undetected then a cloacked covert op).
-they culd also be reduced by less specialised modules like special armor types
-or more specialised, like modules reducing efectivity of certain sensor type like in ECM.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.28 12:51:00 -
[21]
no, grids are smaller than 1k km.
Sigh. Even 1k km is stupidly short for ANY sort of reasonable space detection system.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Ellaine TashMurkon
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Posted - 2006.04.28 15:13:00 -
[22]
what grids?
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4 LOM
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Posted - 2006.04.29 06:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon
what grids?
Never flown off a grid eh?
Umm grids are sections of space in eve, when you enter a grid you only load information (positions, combat info stuff like that) and graphics for that grid. So if you are at gate A you only load all the information that gate A is in if you warp to gate B you have left gate A and gone into another grid where gate be is, you no longer have the graphics and ship positions and such from gate A (well i think you might have then, but they are not loaded and dont need to be rendered bye your GPU) This is how i think it works, but i could be wrong.
Originally by: Twilight Moon
of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
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Keera Saarusuos
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Posted - 2006.04.29 08:17:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
no, grids are smaller than 1k km.
Sigh. Even 1k km is stupidly short for ANY sort of reasonable space detection system.
I think it's been proven repeatedly that it's rather pointless to play the 'realism' card in Eve when it comes to details like that.
And it could be argued that the grid distance is simply the distance at which a ship can be easily itendified and tracked through the overview precisely (obviously this idea gets farked up when you actually cross a gridline). We do have a manual scanner that can reach 12 AU instantly, which is also ridiculous since 1 AU is something like 8 light minutes (if I remember correctly).
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nut gatherer
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Posted - 2006.04.29 16:56:00 -
[25]
just as a thought. seems to me that I have seen this type of thing in many a space movie. serenity and Wing Commander come to mind where ships are powered down and then boot up to assault the enemy. But I do like the idea of that concept, just one small little issue. yes you can poewr down, but most cheap cloaking devices use just some CPU, so fitting one on a battleship if you want to hide would give you the same concept.
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Caer Lakief
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Posted - 2006.04.29 17:33:00 -
[26]
It's a great idea especially for low sec miners looking to score some of that rare ore in their expensive Exhumers ;) The only thing I wonder about is if you're holding an ambush, wouldn't it take you far too long to bring all of your modules back online?
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.29 20:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Keera Saarusuos
Originally by: Maya Rkell
no, grids are smaller than 1k km.
Sigh. Even 1k km is stupidly short for ANY sort of reasonable space detection system.
I think it's been proven repeatedly that it's rather pointless to play the 'realism' card in Eve when it comes to details like that.
There's "omg ships at sea work like this so spaceships should too!" realism, then there's "basic principles of physics" realism.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
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