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fischsemmel
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:00:00 -
[1]
Something someone in my corp was just saying about how it is ALWAYS better to rat solo than in a group (and he was quite vehement about this point) got me thinking... why aren't there rats in the game that require a group of players to defeat?
"Fischsemmel, you idiot! They are called complexes!"
Nah, nah... complexes don't cut it. They are like the end-game content (boring end-game content), not middle of the road, couple person content, not to mention all the really nice ones are claimed by alliances who will pwn all over your face if you steal their cash cow. They aren't much fun, anyways... all you do is tank the hell out of a scorp and put a few shield transfers on it and you'll be lucky if you see any red on friendly ships in the entire 2-3 hour slaughter.
What I want to see are assortments of rats in larger groups, doing variable types of damage and making good use of EW, drones(?), etc. Maybe tag the entire group as an encounter somehow, not only in that they all swarm you if you pick on any one of them, but in that their complete defeat yields extra bounty. "Concord: Good job, fischsemmel! That band of pirates has been harassing innocent traders and miners for weeks! Have an extra 50 million!"
And while we're at it, how about making the suckers spawn at gates, perhaps intentionally camping them? They'd be at belts now and then of course, but how about also at stars? Moons? Planets? You want to have some fun and get bonus rewards for completing a reasonable challenge, then you get to find the guys, too!
Group encounters, group ratting! So much more enjoyable than going out in your raven and clearing a few belts for hours on end, praying to God to get an officer loaded with nice mods or a couple of triple 1.5m spawns.
Anyone else with me on this?
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Sir Juri
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:06:00 -
[2]
yeah I would like to see where you do missions in a group and share mission reward and standing increases wihin the group. Aslong as their is both, and coop/gang missions in better ways then now would be great. Share agents.
damn need to make a new sig... |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:07:00 -
[3]
I think something like this is planned by CCP for their "escalating encounter" system.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
fischsemmel
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:08:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Sir Juri
yeah I would like to see where you do missions in a group and share mission reward and standing increases wihin the group. Aslong as their is both, and coop/gang missions in better ways then now would be great. Share agents.
Oops, I forgot to mention that I was talking about 0.0 space. I guess missions in a true group would be nice too though 
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Sir Juri
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:10:00 -
[5]
Originally by: fischsemmel
Originally by: Sir Juri
yeah I would like to see where you do missions in a group and share mission reward and standing increases wihin the group. Aslong as their is both, and coop/gang missions in better ways then now would be great. Share agents.
Oops, I forgot to mention that I was talking about 0.0 space. I guess missions in a true group would be nice too though
yeah you better...  I agree with you to, I vote on both.
damn need to make a new sig... |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:11:00 -
[6]
Honestly, I'd rather see some more dynamic NPC content like roaming packs of ships and ships using real warp mechanics. Also, I'd like at least up to 15/15 complexes. 10/10 is pathetic, you can do most of the parts of them solo with the right gear and ship if you're careful. Something dealing more than 4k damage per second would be nice... 4k might seem like a lot but it isn't. If a 15/15 existed and could deal upward of 30k per second, I'd be happy.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Nukeitall
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:28:00 -
[7]
I get a nagging feeling I'll see a raid level encounter in the near future.
...Which isn't great.
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fischsemmel
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:36:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Nyphur
Honestly, I'd rather see some more dynamic NPC content like roaming packs of ships and ships using real warp mechanics. Also, I'd like at least up to 15/15 complexes. 10/10 is pathetic, you can do most of the parts of them solo with the right gear and ship if you're careful. Something dealing more than 4k damage per second would be nice... 4k might seem like a lot but it isn't. If a 15/15 existed and could deal upward of 30k per second, I'd be happy.
Roaming, warping NPCs is good. Didn't mention that really but I had it in mind.
15/15 plex? I dunno... having encounters that do more and more DPS isn't going to change the way people run complexes in the slightest. They will just have more logistic ships.
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Dnol Arendale
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:36:00 -
[9]
As a guy in a lowly Ferox, I'm quite content with the spawns as they are, but I do understand where you're coming from.
I remmeber when I was doing the beta for E&B, and when you were warping places, you could be interupted(I think it was E&B) and ambushed by a bunch of pirates.
I'd like to see this in EVE. They don't have to be super gank pirates, because then you'd get a lot of people who aren't ready for them getting jumped, but atleast something of a challenge. It'd add a little more suprise to 0.0 sectors. Sure, the belt rats have their place, and they're fun. But, if there's no one in local, you don't quite get that same "oh man, am I going to be jumped?"
Atleast this way you'd have to worry.
They could implement a spawn system that bases it off of 'traffic' in a certain area. Like, after X number have ships have warped within Y area, the pirates would spawn, and have the equivalent of warp spheres.
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fischsemmel
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:40:00 -
[10]
I like that idea, Dnol :)
Would keep things at least a little interesting out here, even if you know you are 20 jumps deep in your territory at least you never know when some NPCs are gonna hop out of the woodwork and give you some fun, if not a challenge.
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Ralus
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:43:00 -
[11]
I think the key to this is not making the rats bigger its making them cleverer. A 10/10 is doable because the rats will blindly agress a singel player, if they started using some slightly more advanced moves like swapping targets to support jamming and nossing 2ndary targets warping in and out the field the "cash cow" as you put it could suddenly end up kicking its owners in the face.
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Kata Dakini
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:48:00 -
[12]
Considering that it's possible to solo 0.1 rats with a punisher with less than a million SP, I agree.
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fischsemmel
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ralus
I think the key to this is not making the rats bigger its making them cleverer. A 10/10 is doable because the rats will blindly agress a singel player, if they started using some slightly more advanced moves like swapping targets to support jamming and nossing 2ndary targets warping in and out the field the "cash cow" as you put it could suddenly end up kicking its owners in the face.
I agree, but I think finding the middle ground between the current complexes and a total pain in the rear will be a challenge with the game's mechanics.
Perhaps rats only damaging the thing that they currently would, but, like you said, having secondary targets to nos, jam, maybe send drones at? would be a nice balance of things.
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Ab Initio
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:52:00 -
[14]
I know I've dicussed this with friends previously, I would love to warp into a 0.0 belt and find a full fleet waiting, requiring that you rally your own fleet to engage.
At the moment NPC are extremely easy, to the point where you find yourself switching back to T1 cruisers every now and then to make it more interesting. Give us some nasty spawns! :)
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Rafein
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:54:00 -
[15]
I would love to see some new Rat dynamics. Like making Ship logs much more rare, but useful, when used they warp you to a high level spawn, better chance of officers, named mobs, and higher rats overall.
And It would be nice to be able to place mission agents in Player made Outposts.
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fischsemmel
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:54:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ab Initio
I know I've dicussed this with friends previously, I would love to warp into a 0.0 belt and find a full fleet waiting, requiring that you rally your own fleet to engage.
At the moment NPC are extremely easy, to the point where you find yourself switching back to T1 cruisers every now and then to make it more interesting. Give us some nasty spawns! :)
It's not like this kind of thing would have to be very common to get us very fired up, either 
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:56:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 27/04/2006 23:56:29
Originally by: Nyphur
Honestly, I'd rather see some more dynamic NPC content like roaming packs of ships and ships using real warp mechanics. Also, I'd like at least up to 15/15 complexes. 10/10 is pathetic, you can do most of the parts of them solo with the right gear and ship if you're careful. Something dealing more than 4k damage per second would be nice... 4k might seem like a lot but it isn't. If a 15/15 existed and could deal upward of 30k per second, I'd be happy.
There is actually one very special mission sequence which at some points rises over 15k damage/second today.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
fischsemmel
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Posted - 2006.04.27 23:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Rafein
I would love to see some new Rat dynamics. Like making Ship logs much more rare, but useful, when used they warp you to a high level spawn, better chance of officers, named mobs, and higher rats overall.
And It would be nice to be able to place mission agents in Player made Outposts.
I'm not sure about agents in player outposts, but ship logs leading to deadspace in 0.0 or something with some nice spawns would be nice.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.28 00:00:00 -
[19]
Well that's how CCP desribed "escalating encounters".
You find a log, which points to a semi-dynamic deepspace spawn. You go there. 20% chance of their being another log to a more difficult spawn, etc.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.04.28 00:28:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Nyphur on 28/04/2006 00:33:28
Originally by: Maya Rkell
There is actually one very special mission sequence which at some points rises over 15k damage/second today.
But is there an equivalent reward? Or is this one of those navy fleets?
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Well that's how CCP desribed "escalating encounters".
You find a log, which points to a semi-dynamic deepspace spawn. You go there. 20% chance of their being another log to a more difficult spawn, etc.
And then they abandoned it 
Originally by: Ralus
I think the key to this is not making the rats bigger its making them cleverer. A 10/10 is doable because the rats will blindly agress a singel player, if they started using some slightly more advanced moves like swapping targets to support jamming and nossing 2ndary targets warping in and out the field the "cash cow" as you put it could suddenly end up kicking its owners in the face.
Actually, you can solo a 10/10. And I can design circular and dual dependant tanks where each member is healed for the same, huge amount or the repairing is concentrated with enough base repair rate and armour/shield to stop burst damage being a problem, leaving no weak points for NPCs to target.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.28 00:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Nyphur
Edited by: Nyphur on 28/04/2006 00:33:28
Originally by: Maya Rkell
You find a log, which points to a semi-dynamic deepspace spawn. You go there. 20% chance of their being another log to a more difficult spawn, etc.
And then they abandoned it
That sounded nifty
Link?
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.04.28 00:43:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
That sounded nifty
Link?
I looked through the patch notes but couldn't find it. Basically, the static spawns from ship logs have been removed.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.28 00:45:00 -
[23]
Yea, because they were fairly pointless. What CCP were talking about with the new system were semi-random spawns fired up like a mission dialogue from a log.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.04.28 00:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Yea, because they were fairly pointless. What CCP were talking about with the new system were semi-random spawns fired up like a mission dialogue from a log.
I really hope they do something like that.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
fischsemmel
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Posted - 2006.04.28 00:58:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Yea, because they were fairly pointless. What CCP were talking about with the new system were semi-random spawns fired up like a mission dialogue from a log.
I really hope they do something like that.
Me too. It would at least give us something to do other than rat and mine to build up our resources... neither of which are very stimulating, even if chatting in TS or something all the while.
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Cocoi
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Posted - 2006.04.29 12:24:00 -
[26]
I think the idea of the NPC rat should be explored additionally - that is, it could be more "Freelancerf"-esque (pretty random, that is). The idea of having pirates spawn at moons and planets as well as belts would bring a bit more RP into beltraiding for me. Currently, it seems like pirates use a cloaked wormhole to enter belts in a millisecond. I would like to imagine pirates using the 'back road' into systems and 'seeding' the system slowly from planet, to moon, to belt.
I figure there are some difficulties in game mechanics that come into play here.
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2006.04.29 12:34:00 -
[27]
bigger spawns just mean someone will be chaining them in a carrier
- Gob
(my nubie attempt at a forum sig, bare with me plz :p) |
aeti
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Posted - 2006.04.29 13:58:00 -
[28]
capital ship rats <_<
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Caine
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Posted - 2006.04.29 14:17:00 -
[29]
I have to admit I'm getting bored with my career path of choice... ratting.
Their dumb, very easy and boring and yet to meet something I can't solo while reading a book.
I'd love a multi-path aproach to ratting, as in fleets and just plain bigger smarter baddies.
Right now it just doesn't pay to team up.
I took a year off but seem to remember something about named boss rats, did the whole concept fall through?
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.04.29 15:23:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Sir Juri
yeah I would like to see where you do missions in a group and share mission reward and standing increases wihin the group. Aslong as their is both, and coop/gang missions in better ways then now would be great. Share agents.
Level 5 missions maybe?
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
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