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Why is CCP encouraging/facilitating margin trading scam?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Megalex QC Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:13:00 - [1] - Quote Sup EVE I haven't been playing for a long time, but I've recently been made aware of a scam called the margin trading scam. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Scams_in_Eve#The_Margin_Trading_Scam There's a skill in EVE that allows you to place a buy order without having the ISK to do so, and when someone sells to that buy order, it fails. it's called "Margin Trading" So the scammer puts up an exotic item in a contract sale, which isn't sold in that system, but with a bunch of fake buy orders for like 2-3 times the price of the contract! In this case, the item he was selling are the "compressed" ores like "Compressed Spodumain" So you're like yeah, I'll buy it for 500 million. You buy it, try to sell that item to the 1 bil buy order and it fails. Why is CCP allowing this mechanic to remain in game? Why would you be able to buy stuff with the money you don't have? This is just broken and facilitates this horrible scam There's a scammer in Rens who spams [Mining Sale] with that scam, if you look at his completed contracts you'll see he scams at least 1 person a day with this margin trading scam. Why is this still ingame? Why does CCP facilitate scamming? I know they let scamming go because it's part of the game, but to FACILITATE it? that's another story.
Douglas Nolm Useless Incorporated QUIET TIME. 38	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:17:00 - [2] - Quote That's EvE. Like many things, I suspect that the mechanic was introduced with good intentions, and players worked out how to use it to scam others. It's all part of the game, and I don't think it needs to be changed. Remember, if something seems too good to be true, it probably is!
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1876	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:27:00 - [3] - Quote Megalex QC wrote: So you're like yeah, I'll buy it for 500 million. You buy it, try to sell that item to the 1 bil buy order and it fails. you fall victim to your ignorance and greed. i see no problem here. Quote: Why is CCP allowing this mechanic to remain in game? Why would you be able to buy stuff with the money you don't have? This is just broken and facilitates this horrible scam you are not able to buy stuff with money you do not have, precisely because the trade fails. as for the scam: pretty much all other forms of scams are preying on greed and ignorance, this one is no exception. Quote: Why is this still ingame? Why does CCP facilitate scamming? I know they let scamming go because it's part of the game, but to FACILITATE it? that's another story. where do you draw the line between allowing and facilitating? there are thousands of players who rely on the margin trading skill to increase their reach on the markets (including yours, truly), so what grounds do you have for your accusation? "I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF
Markatta Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 19	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:27:00 - [4] - Quote "You can't cheat an honest man."
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds Affirmative. 3831	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:42:00 - [5] - Quote aaah, the tears....tasteful. It's possible, because it's part of the harsh universe of EVE, don't like it...then don't play the game. And to people with common sense...it's quite an obvious scam too. It's the ignorant/stupid/greedy who fail to see the scam, and they deserve to fall for it. I know that whining posts are part of the game, but why does CCP facilitate it? Personal channel: *Crazy Dutch Guy* Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 3715	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:43:00 - [6] - Quote The Margin Trade skill has a ton of valid uses. It allows a trader to fully leverage the isk they have, and is an essential tool to any serious market traders. The Margin Trading Scam: The only way the scammer makes any isk at all from a Margin Trade Scam is if they trick a person to purchase overpriced goods directly from them. Any player that actually investigates teh value of the product they are buying won't fall for margin trade scams: --- Price history gives a solid indication of how much an item has been selling for. --- Sales Volume History gives a solid indication of how rapidly an item moves. Both of these tell you the volatility of an item, which moreless represents the risk associated with buying an item to resell for profit. A trader willingly assumes this risk when they purchase an item (whether they realize it or not). There are many real life examples of this, and businesses deal with it all the time. Examples: Fast food orders where the customer learns they don't have their wallet. Prank Pizza deliveries. Preorders for PS4's or Movies or Games at a Bestbuy, and on and on. EvE is a dystopia, and it is very appropriate for buy orders to occasionally fail. When an order fails, the seller keeps their item and loses nothing. The buyer's order is canceled, and they lose broker fees. This is completely fair, where both sides walk away with their assets. IMO, the margin trade skill is very well implemented, both for legitimate uses and for scamming. There is only one failing I perceive around it: CCP needs to make this point CRYSTAL CLEAR: Quote: ALL buy orders are NOT GUARANTEED. It is that simple.... Put it right on the market interface.... perhaps add it to a tutorial, and then everything would be perfect.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 17194	Posted - 2014.03.18 21:54:00 - [7] - Quote If it sounds too good to be true, it is. If it seems like an honest deal, you haven't found the scam yet. Double check everything when dealing with exotic or expensive items and or contracts. Paranoia is a survival trait in Eve, there are only two people you can trust, yourself and Chribba. Psychotic Monk for CSM 9
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds Affirmative. 3833	Posted - 2014.03.18 21:54:00 - [8] - Quote Also. Compressed Spodumain...exotic item...when is compressed spod an exotic item. Buying stuff with money you dont have: Also, uhm. Isnt that how much of RL works too. Or did you actually bought your house with your own money. Personal channel: *Crazy Dutch Guy* Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road
Ralph King-Griffin Var Foundation inc. 399	Posted - 2014.03.18 23:54:00 - [9] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If it sounds too good to be true, it is. If it seems like an honest deal, you haven't found the scam yet. Double check everything when dealing with exotic or expensive items and or contracts. Paranoia is a survival trait in Eve, there are only two people you can trust, yourself and Chribba. actually , just chribba. If in doubt...do...excessively.
Sabriz Adoudel Mission BLITZ 2275	Posted - 2014.03.19 00:07:00 - [10] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If it sounds too good to be true, it is. If it seems like an honest deal, you haven't found the scam yet. Double check everything when dealing with exotic or expensive items and or contracts. Paranoia is a survival trait in Eve, there are only two people you can trust, yourself and Chribba. My rule is "Never trust anyone in EVE unless you are sleeping with them IRL." Even then you need to be careful. The best thing about the margin scam is that, like other scams that prey on greed (my "help I got ganked in a storyline mission, need Elite Drone AI to finish it, paying 400m" scam where the contract is a want to sell not a want to buy is another one), you can only steal from people who have enough ISK that they can afford to lose it. So you never need to feel bad about utterly breaking someone in-game because you just can't do it, you can only get their liquid investable ISK. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=318489 - Proposal for a new type of tech 2 Destroyer If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com.
Spine Bastanold Evil Monkey Asylum Evil Monkeys Asylum 4	Posted - 2014.03.19 01:18:00 - [11] - Quote Seems to me its just another layer in a very deep game. just another thing to learn, looks like you've figured it out without losing tons of ISK I like the fact that theres challenges and danger everywhere, docked or undocked, be careful, this universe bites
cpt Varox Offerings of Blood 21	Posted - 2014.03.19 11:28:00 - [12] - Quote Its your fault/ You were greedy OP and now you know better. Greed is a capsuleer worst enemy right next to ego. Let us reflect on that while we bring offerings to Bob (pro tip he likes corpses).
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 17202	Posted - 2014.03.19 17:00:00 - [13] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If it sounds too good to be true, it is. If it seems like an honest deal, you haven't found the scam yet. Double check everything when dealing with exotic or expensive items and or contracts. Paranoia is a survival trait in Eve, there are only two people you can trust, yourself and Chribba. actually , just chribba. Good point, I certainly don't trust my alts and they're also me Psychotic Monk for CSM 9
Noxisia Arkana Deadspace Knights 241	Posted - 2014.03.19 20:35:00 - [14] - Quote They aren't encouraging it. They've actively been seeking a way to avoid this exploit with input from the player base without wrecking legitimate trader tactics. It's in the F&I forum.
Sabriz Adoudel Mission BLITZ 2287	Posted - 2014.03.19 22:25:00 - [15] - Quote Noxisia Arkana wrote: They aren't encouraging it. They've actively been seeking a way to avoid this exploit with input from the player base without wrecking legitimate trader tactics. It's in the F&I forum. Please do not misuse the term 'exploit' like that. New players: It is not in ANY way an exploit to use margin trading to scam someone, however, the ability to do so may be removed in the future. Be aware that people involved in margin scamming now do not appreciate additional competition, and have methods that can badly screw you if you attempt to margin scam but make a mistake. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=318489 - Proposal for a new type of tech 2 Destroyer If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com.
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds Affirmative. 3840	Posted - 2014.03.20 01:33:00 - [16] - Quote Noxisia Arkana wrote: They aren't encouraging it. They've actively been seeking a way to avoid this intended behaviour of a game mechanic with input from the player base without wrecking legitimate trader tactics. It's in the F&I forum. Fixed it for you. It's NOT an exploit. People are just using a loophole in something that works as intended. Personal channel: *Crazy Dutch Guy* Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road
RomeStar Empire Investments Logistics 405	Posted - 2014.03.20 12:54:00 - [17] - Quote Please contact a goon officer they help you out with options to decipher all margin trading scams along with some of the more coomon scams through out eve itself. They are a big help when it comes to scamming. Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
Vol Arm'OOO Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 203	Posted - 2014.03.20 17:17:00 - [18] - Quote The margin scam is the one scam that I feel I can really wholeheartedly support. The person who falls for it, does so because of their greed; they feel that they are taking advantage of another persons stupidity or mistake, when in truth it is their own greed and lack of knowledge that puts them on the hook. The margin scam is merely karma coming home to get you. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Sabriz Adoudel Mission BLITZ 2298	Posted - 2014.03.20 22:11:00 - [19] - Quote Vol Arm'OOO wrote: The margin scam is the one scam that I feel I can really wholeheartedly support. The person who falls for it, does so because of their greed; they feel that they are taking advantage of another persons stupidity or mistake, when in truth it is their own greed and lack of knowledge that puts them on the hook. The margin scam is merely karma coming home to get you. There's also the similar "HALP I got ganked, lost this storyline mission item" followed by a want to sell contract for a rubbish item like an Elite Drone AI or a Gate Key, retyped to appear as a want to buy. I like that one. A lot. Newbies can do it quite effectively too. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=318489 - Proposal for a new type of tech 2 Destroyer If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com.
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds Affirmative. 3842	Posted - 2014.03.20 22:18:00 - [20] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Vol Arm'OOO wrote: The margin scam is the one scam that I feel I can really wholeheartedly support. The person who falls for it, does so because of their greed; they feel that they are taking advantage of another persons stupidity or mistake, when in truth it is their own greed and lack of knowledge that puts them on the hook. The margin scam is merely karma coming home to get you. There's also the similar "HALP I got ganked, lost this storyline mission item" followed by a want to sell contract for a rubbish item like an Elite Drone AI or a Gate Key, retyped to appear as a want to buy. I like that one. A lot. Newbies can do it quite effectively too. Difference is that that scam more preys on people not paying attention / not knowing the mechanics. Margin trader scam purely preys on people with more ISK then brainmatter. Personal channel: *Crazy Dutch Guy* Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road

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