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Dust Angel
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Posted - 2006.04.29 16:23:00 -
[1]
A kessie has a mass of over 1700000
a coercer, the AMARR DESTROYER, a size up and made with massive armor, has much less.
WHY DO CALDARI, WHO RELY ON SHIELDS NOT THICK ARMOR, HAVE THE HIGHEST MASS?
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Thoris Levithar
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Posted - 2006.04.29 16:25:00 -
[2]
All those shield generators...
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CardboardSword42
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Posted - 2006.04.29 16:39:00 -
[3]
There was already a thread on this, I'll try and find it later
 Originally by: Thoris Levithar
All those shield generators...
Would have nowhere near as much mass as armor plating
From a fluff perspective mass should be
Minmatar < Caldari < Gallente < Amarr
From a balance perspective it should be
Minmatar < Gallente < Caldari < Amarr
I'm Ex-Biomass, that makes me cool
This sig is yellow - Ductoris |
wierchas noobhunter
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Posted - 2006.04.29 16:54:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Dust Angel
Please Reduce Caldari Mass
do eat so much hamburgers and u wil be fine 
nice mode ON/off
Naughty - don't discuss moderation on the forums! - Cathath |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.29 16:56:00 -
[5]
please god yes
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.04.29 16:57:00 -
[6]
Originally by: CardboardSword42
There was already a thread on this, I'll try and find it later
Originally by: Thoris Levithar
All those shield generators...
Would have nowhere near as much mass as armor plating
From a fluff perspective mass should be
Minmatar < Caldari < Gallente < Amarr
From a balance perspective it should be
Minmatar < Gallente < Caldari < Amarr
Actually, Gallente are more close ranged than Minmatar, while Caldari are more long ranged (baring Battleship sized missiles!) than all the others, and the "balance" point of view should be:
Gallente < Minmatar < Amarr < Caldari
* It's simple, the more close ranged, the faster and more agile you have to be.
Also, when it comes to "fluff" (which is backstory), you'd get something like:
Minmatar < Caldari < Gallente/Amarr
* Should be noted, however, that there's just tons of other stuff that's not right between fluff and game, so they're out of luck when designing after fluff now.
New sig coming soonÖ
Drone musing (MC-boards) |
Triscuit
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Posted - 2006.04.29 17:31:00 -
[7]
Fluff: Missiles are really heavy. (I dunno.)
Reality: Caldari doesn't need mass reduction. Suck it up.
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Michael Nester
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Posted - 2006.04.29 17:34:00 -
[8]
Quit eating so many long limb roes
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.29 17:37:00 -
[9]
I thought the increased in mass was due to pre-missile narfing to make them less pwnmobile? Guessed too many things had been narfed that they might take sometime to be un-narfed. Probably wrong coz not around when it all happened.
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Idara
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Posted - 2006.04.29 17:38:00 -
[10]
Nah, leave it alone, Caldari don't need to be any better.
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Xori Ruscuv
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Posted - 2006.04.29 18:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
Originally by: Dust Angel
Please Reduce Caldari Mass
do eat so much hamburgers and u wil be fine
Wierchas, I think you just made my day...
Gotcha! I bet that got ya all hot under the collar, didn't it?  |
Dust Angel
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Posted - 2006.04.29 22:43:00 -
[12]
Im not asking on a BS level, im saying take a look at it, especially frigate and cruiser level.
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Phish1
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Posted - 2006.04.29 22:46:00 -
[13]
look, its a balance issue, live with it.
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Malka Badi'a
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Posted - 2006.04.29 22:48:00 -
[14]
Mass != Weight
Armor with a gravitational pull will weigh more than electronic components, but use less room. Cramming a ship with electronics is going to use more room than just heavy armor plating. Compare the thick bulk of the raven to the thinner, but longer, apoc.
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Niques Leutre
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Posted - 2006.04.29 22:48:00 -
[15]
Don't forget battleships. Caldari battleship are roughly half the volume of Amarr ships... and when you factor in the fact Amarr battleships are made up of thick slabs of armour plates while Caldari are mostly electronics...
The equal or greater mass of Caldari ships versus the other races' doesn't seem to make sense.
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The fiercer the foe, the sweeter the salvage.
The fatter the wallet, the bigger the smile. |
Jenton
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Posted - 2006.04.29 22:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Mass != Weight
Armor with a gravitational pull will weigh more than electronic components, but use less room. Cramming a ship with electronics is going to use more room than just heavy armor plating. Compare the thick bulk of the raven to the thinner, but longer, apoc.
hrn/abwa???
Weight = gravitational constant*mass
unless you're talking about caldari ships weighing more near black holes than amarr ships in intersystem void, that makes no sense. armor is denser than electronics, therefore, more volume*higher density should mean that amarr ships have more mass than caldari ships.
Those who see grey in the world do not see clearly, for the world is ever cast in black and white. |
Niques Leutre
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Posted - 2006.04.29 22:56:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Niques Leutre on 29/04/2006 23:00:49
Edited by: Niques Leutre on 29/04/2006 22:56:05
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Mass != Weight
Armor with a gravitational pull will weigh more than electronic components, but use less room. Cramming a ship with electronics is going to use more room than just heavy armor plating. Compare the thick bulk of the raven to the thinner, but longer, apoc.
Surely the electronics systems won't be packed *that* densely (dense enough to be equal or greater to the mass of thick slabs of armour plates). Don't forget that electronic systems must also be placed far enough apart to prevent heat buildup (or allow cooling systems to fit), not to mention they need to be spaced enough to be accessible for repair and maintenance.
Look at the Scorpion compared to say the Apocalypse. If you've ever seen the two overlap or side by side, you'd see the Scorpion's volume is relatively tiny. Yet despite this, the Scorpion has greater mass than the Apocalypse.
After a few millenia of space flight, you'd think the people of Eve would have developed lighter and smaller electronics... I seriously doubt after all this time we'd be using equipment that has a mass equal to (and density greater) than that of steel plates.
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The fiercer the foe, the sweeter the salvage.
The fatter the wallet, the bigger the smile. |
Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.04.29 22:59:00 -
[18]
You're absolutely right, Dusty, but there's already a 5-page thread on this, on Page 1 of General Discussion (Yes, I know, opening GD is scary and painful, but it's a good thing to do now and then)
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Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
[07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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Cade Morrigan
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Posted - 2006.04.29 23:51:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Mass != Weight
Armor with a gravitational pull will weigh more than electronic components, but use less room. Cramming a ship with electronics is going to use more room than just heavy armor plating. Compare the thick bulk of the raven to the thinner, but longer, apoc.
I tested this! I took my computer and put it on a scale, it weighed 25 lbs. Then i took out half of the electronics, pulled off the flimsy case, and bolted 3cm of steel plating together to form a smaller enclosure (about half the volume). It weighed 67 pounds when armored.
Since gravity in my region of Iowa didn't fluctuate by a couple hundred percent (that I'm aware of), I must assume that I increased the mass of my computer.
-= Save the Gila! Fix its grid and cpu! =-
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Dust Angel
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Posted - 2006.04.30 00:04:00 -
[20]
Hmm, kessie has more mass than a destroyer... thats scary and sad at the same time, considering its like, 1/5th the size of a dessy.
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Stressed out with empire politics?
Sansha's Nation helps clear your mind.
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Kye Kenshin
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Posted - 2006.04.30 00:45:00 -
[21]
Why do you need light weight ships anyway??
Its not like you need agility and speed for close range fighting thanks to missiles and your 10% optimal bonuses.
Its not even a good arguement for your frigs as the kessie does just fine and the crow is one of the best interceptors around.
Plus RP arguements have nothing to do with game balance.
Live with it.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.04.30 00:50:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Cade Morrigan
I tested this! I took my computer and put it on a scale, it weighed 25 lbs. Then i took out half of the electronics, pulled off the flimsy case, and bolted 3cm of steel plating together to form a smaller enclosure (about half the volume). It weighed 67 pounds when armored.
Since gravity in my region of Iowa didn't fluctuate by a couple hundred percent (that I'm aware of), I must assume that I increased the mass of my computer.
As Dusty loves to say, PICS OR STFU!
No seriously, if you ACTUALLY did all that, it would be unspeakably hilarious...
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Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
[07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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CardboardSword42
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Posted - 2006.04.30 00:59:00 -
[23]
I'd like to sort one thing out that people don't seem to be understanding, it is mass that some people think should be changed not velocity.
I'm Ex-Biomass, that makes me cool
This sig is yellow - Ductoris |
Moonlife
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Posted - 2006.04.30 01:27:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Cade Morrigan
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Mass != Weight
Armor with a gravitational pull will weigh more than electronic components, but use less room. Cramming a ship with electronics is going to use more room than just heavy armor plating. Compare the thick bulk of the raven to the thinner, but longer, apoc.
I tested this! I took my computer and put it on a scale, it weighed 25 lbs. Then i took out half of the electronics, pulled off the flimsy case, and bolted 3cm of steel plating together to form a smaller enclosure (about half the volume). It weighed 67 pounds when armored.
Since gravity in my region of Iowa didn't fluctuate by a couple hundred percent (that I'm aware of), I must assume that I increased the mass of my computer.
If you actually did that, and posted pictures, I pay for all of your expenses for it.
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Idara
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Posted - 2006.04.30 02:28:00 -
[25]
Okay, reduce the mass of Caldari ships, and make Amarr the most massive.
But...make a new "Attribute" for ships like "maneuverability" that reflects the power and number of thrusters on the ship. Caldari don't need to be very agile because they just lock and fire, but Gallente and Minnie ships need to be quite maneuverable.
Mass would be: Amarr > Gallente > Caldari > Minmatar
Maneuverability: Minnie > Gallente > Amarr > Caldari
Or whatever. Caldari still shouldn't be able to be faster than a Minnie or Gallente ship simply because they don't need to be for thier weapons to work.
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Valea Silpha
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Posted - 2006.04.30 03:17:00 -
[26]
You assume that armor is just solid armor plating. With nano engineering and hyperadvanced materials... why does armor have to have all that much mass ?
Caldari ships are just more roomy, no specific reason. Thats just the way they build them out there.
<Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing
<Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head |
Litus Arowar
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Posted - 2006.04.30 03:45:00 -
[27]
this can't be a serious discussion... the reason caldari ships weigh more is cause of game balance... if they weighed less but had lower speed/agility, then MWDs and ABs would solve all problems
by giving them decent speed, but high weight, ABs and MWDs have less of an effect
why?
balance
why specifically?
who cares, it works
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2006.04.30 04:18:00 -
[28]
Some caldari ships could stand to lose some mass, not all of them but a few are a bit out there.
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FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD |
Degale
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Posted - 2006.04.30 04:55:00 -
[29]
You have to account for the mass of the caldari pilots thick head.
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Arkanor
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Posted - 2006.04.30 05:17:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Arkanor on 30/04/2006 05:16:55
Originally by: Degale
You have to account for the mass of the caldari pilots thick head.
Obviously they decreased that a bit so to make them moveable in the first place...
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Originally by: Kadrush
I want a Death Star to mine Veldspar
Yes I made the pic before I saw this |
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