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Whetstone Prime
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 23:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Greetings Citizens of EvE, loyal and rebellious children of James 315.
We are Whetstone. We will be honest, that until a few months ago we were unaware of the Code or of James 315. For the most part this is because many of us had left the galaxy of EvE behind us, but we are returned. We have heard the Father's words and felt it ring true in our heart and it brought us back to EvE. The Code is good and perfect and we honor the Code.
But there is weakness inherent in us all, we as men and women grow slack and slothful. The perfection of the Code has made High Sec space better and more interesting. But we look at those that enforce the Code and see weakness. They sharpen their blades on miners that fit neither tank or offensive power, ships that are little stronger than the rocks they mine. This has dulled the edge of many agents who feel "safe" in High Sec space, for no miner would raise arms against them. In fixing the hearts of miners everywhere, we have sacrificed the warrior's edge of the agents. We at Whetstone do not believe this is fair or right. This example was confirmed even more so recently when an Agent's Widow was destroyed not because he sacrificed it to Concord for righting the wrongs against the Code, but because it was fitted poorly. It was fitted poorly because he felt it would never be shot at. The very words of this Agent, he felt so safe in High Sec, that he could not imagine someone engaging him in legitimate battle.
There is sloth among some agents that enforce the Code. It is not their faults, they have dulled their senses as the edge of a sword does against granite. They require something more, something to sharpen their skills. They need a Whetstone to make them whole. These are not broken blades to be tossed aside. James has taught us that sometimes it requires tough love to make us better. We are here to love these agents back to health. So that no Agent ever again has to say "I lost my ship because I never thought it would be shot at," again.
We are Whetstone, in truth we are small in number. Roaming here and there looking for sloth. We have faith that James himself, who knows all in High Sec and knows our very thoughts, has not asked us not to sharpen his Agents. We proceed with faith in his Blessing that we are about the Father's work. We will not announce ourselves in local, it is our code that we slip quietly through one system to the next. We hold our silence to create uncertainty, for you must always suspect that an Operative of Whetstone is in local with you, for if we were known then Agents would simply be on guard when we were present. Our calling is above that, we are everywhere and nowhere. Any who claim to be Whetstone, they are not. This is the one voice we will use.
We present the Sharpening, to fix the damaged blades of the Agents. To make whole that which has dulled. When we present a Sharpening, we will not present Killmails, not will we name nor shame the Agent that received our lesson. We all can learn, we all can be made better. No one should feel High Sec is safe, it is not a playground to frolic in, but a warzone where titans and beasts roam as they will. We mortals trend beneath them, carving our life out with missiles and anti-matter.
To this: We present the First Sharpening. The Unaffiliated Scorpion
One Operative took the great and personal danger of fitting a barge to mine. An agent would appreciate the rigors of discipline it takes to mine for the greater good of another. In the same belt, 180 km away sat a second operative in an Scorpion. The two sat for hours waiting in silence until an Agent finally approached. It was standard Agent fair, the Catalyst, this was expected. The Agent gave fair warning that the barge was mining without a permit. But our Operative remained silent, as is our directives. The Agent proceeded to bump the barge, and silently the Operative went about continuing to try to mine. No outward words were given, but the Operatives held out hope that the Agent was taking in all around him. That hope dimmed as he yellow boxed the barge with a last warning before destruction.
The Scorpion continued to sit silently, still holding at 180km, no outward actions had been taken, though if the Agent had looked, perhaps he would have noticed the battleship aligned towards the barge. It might have tipped him to the true danger he was in. The Agent opened fire, the DPS race is on between the Catalyst and Concord. But the Scorpion, fitted with a MJD suddenly was within 80 km, more than close enough for optimal range on its jammers. The Catalyst stopped it's attack and the DPS race is lost. The barge warps out as does the Unaffiliated Scorpion and Concords finishes its work upon the Agent's ship.
Nothing is said in local, silence is our commandment. At first we thought the lesson to be learned here was proper fittings, but as we discussed it, in EWAR, the Catalyst will never beat the Scorpion. We believe the lesson here is Better Situational Awareness. Never in Low Sec or Null Sec would you engage an enemy ship where a Scorpion was even close even if that Scorpion was not in the same Corp or Alliance. It is the same in High Sec. We allow ourselves one grace in our tale. We take the pilot at his word that he is an Agent of the Order and a follower of the Code. If you profess your belief, it must be shown in action as well as word. We believe those that follow the Code are held to a higher standard than those that either do not know or do not believe for they are the unconverted.
We are not here to save miners nor are we part of the resistance. We have and will use miners as bait, if the Agent is unable to enforce the Code upon them, we did not save the miner, we only sharpened the Agent to be a better warrior in the future.
We Are Whetstone, we are zealous of the Code. We Welcome all Agents to the Sharpening. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17221
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 23:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
So you're basically a self appointed New Order Internal Affairs Department?
+1 for bringing something new and potentially amusing to the table, without resorting to the usual garbage.
Psychotic Monk for CSM 9 |

Kaea Astridsson
SoLuTech - Your Solution for Everything
20
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 00:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Awh man, skimmed throught at first and thought you got down a scorpion BELONGING to an agent. Wouldn't a griffin done the same job cheaper? And don't most agents either have low enough sec status to be fired upon at will or free kill rights available?
Kudos to James315 and his followers for creating content. Even if it spawns long texts like this. |

Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
588
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 01:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
I approve of this service.
That Widow loss was entirely avoidable, the Agents/Knights are getting slack.
And the Cat pilot should've felt Big Red Alerts when seeing a Scorp sitting only 180 klicks off a 'AFK' miner......obvious trap is obvious, by golly. Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
|

Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
894
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 02:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Did the Catalyst pilot give you a "gf" in local? They expect miners to do so after they gank them. If these agents really are held to a higher standard, then the least they can do is extend the same courtesy when they are outplayed. |

Kyperion
114
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 05:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Holy shite this is a new level of delusion, and so long you can't even quote it.
I see this rule breaking rant thread going places.
I love how these cultists keep reopening variations on the same bullshit that gets locked. |

Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
44
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 06:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
+1 op. would read again. Erotica 1: "I would create a massive pyramid scheme in Eve to show you what it is, but I'm an honest business person, so you'll just have to find education elsewhere. Start with the wiki link that was linked by a person who didn't even read what he linked." Theres a reason I play eve XD |

Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
894
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 07:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:Holy shite this is a new level of delusion, and so long you can't even quote it.
I see this rule breaking rant thread going places.
I love how these cultists keep reopening variations on the same bullshit that gets locked. I don't think you know what ranting is. I would have thought someone like yourself would have loved the fact that they are baiting and killing members of the new order. |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
701
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 08:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:I see this rule breaking rant thread going places. Code breaking perhaps, but not rule breaking.
I wonder if this is the rise of the day of reckoning that has been claimed for a while.
Though, since the big ganks involve multiple gankers, I hope Whetstone brings enough ewar to shut them all down. eve-bazaar - Discount prices on ships and PLEX. Real savings to drive your ISK further. |

Zappity
Stay Frosty.
855
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 10:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kaea Astridsson wrote:Awh man, skimmed throught at first and thought you got down a scorpion BELONGING to an agent. Wouldn't a griffin done the same job cheaper? And don't most agents either have low enough sec status to be fired upon at will or free kill rights available?
Kudos to James315 and his followers for creating content. Even if it spawns long texts like this. Griffin can't MJD. Would have been even more obvious. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |

Kyperion
115
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 10:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Shederov Blood wrote:Kyperion wrote:Holy shite this is a new level of delusion, and so long you can't even quote it.
I see this rule breaking rant thread going places.
I love how these cultists keep reopening variations on the same bullshit that gets locked. I don't think you know what ranting is. I would have thought someone like yourself would have loved the fact that they are baiting and killing gankers.
such a wall of text I couldn't get myself to read past the part where it first mentions 'the code'
tortured myself to read the whole thing.... and well, blah...
If the good people of highsec are going to band together to **** up some code wankers, we don't need walls of text to justify it. A simple "We're taking our space back from the cultist cabal" would suffice.
and besides, even if you want to RP it; 'The Code' of the Warrior is defense of the helpless, and its just that simple.
No fancy language, no elaborate schemes, just the path of Honor. |

Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Arbitrary Spaceship Destruction The Devil's Warrior Alliance
134
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 12:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:Shederov Blood wrote:Kyperion wrote:Holy shite this is a new level of delusion, and so long you can't even quote it.
I see this rule breaking rant thread going places.
I love how these cultists keep reopening variations on the same bullshit that gets locked. I don't think you know what ranting is. I would have thought someone like yourself would have loved the fact that they are baiting and killing gankers. such a wall of text I couldn't get myself to read past the part where it first mentions 'the code' tortured myself to read the whole thing.... and well, blah... If the good people of highsec are going to band together to **** up some code wankers, we don't need walls of text to justify it. A simple "We're taking our space back from the cultist cabal" would suffice. and besides, even if you want to RP it; 'The Code' of the Warrior is defense of the helpless, and its just that simple. No fancy language, no elaborate schemes, just the path of Honor.
We are all limited by our own perspective. You more than others, I think. http://www.devilswarrior.info/kb This game is built around the likes of us. It's not the assholes that are playing the wrong game. - James Amril-Kesh. |

RomeStar
Empire Investments Logistics
405
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 13:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Wall of Text yeah seriously if I wanted to read a novel Im sure there are better ones then this post. Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |

Dsparil Mal
Crime Incorporated
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 13:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Whetstone Prime wrote:Mindless role playing rhetoric
Tl;Dr shut up. Quit posting garbage that nobody cares about. I hate role players. |

Tengu Grib
Maniacal Laughter Ltd.
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 18:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
tl;dr Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. |

Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
497
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 18:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
'we think some of the NO are bad at what they do, we want to make them not bad by cunning application of elementary tactics'
then add Kyperions usual crap about cultists and season to taste. Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome |

350125GO
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 19:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:[quote=Shederov Blood][quote=Kyperion]Holy shite this is a new level of delusion, and so long you can't even quote it.
and besides, even if you want to RP it; 'The Code' of the Warrior is defense of the helpless, and its just that simple.
No fancy language, no elaborate schemes, just the path of Honor.
The true way of the warrior is death. This means choosing death whenever there is a choice between life and death. There is no other reasoning, no other code.
(with apologies to Yamamoto Tsunetomo) |

Bing Bangboom
Ded End Damage Inc.
270
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
When Whetstone first made its appearance on www.minerbumping.com I encouraged them to pursue this line of emergent gameplay. It is sorely needed as the New Order continues to expand across highsec. Everyone, no matter how many hundreds of miners bumped or ganked, has room for improvement and I do not exclude myself.
I found a Covetor mining in Erenta a few weeks back. He was alone in an asteroid belt, lasers melting, and sitting immobile... right next to a Mobile Depot. I have never seen a miner with a MD sitting next to it and, at the time, paid it no mind. I decloaked, scanned the mining ship and found it to be lightly tanked. It would be no problem in this .6 system. Cloaked back up and moved to my warpin spot.
Now comes the Destroyer.
A Catalyst to be exact. I feinted to the north, flew my attack profile, came in under radar and locked and fired. The shields barely moved. I pounded away with all eight Light Ion Blaster IIs, making little headway. CONCORD eventually showed up and did the usual. I had barely scratched him.
Decloaking again I scanned down the Covetor to find it tanked in every slot except the mining lasers. I had been had nicely.
So, what happened? The miner, actually the pvper who used a Covetor for bait, had seen me decloak and had used the MD to swap out his alluring negligee of bot aspirancy for hard steel and shiny hardeners, not the good kind. I fell right into his trap and justifiably lost the battle. I wished him a GF at which point he told me he had actually come to Erenta to take me on. A great victory for him and a valuable lesson to me.
The speed with which the New Order has established its dominance of highsec and the futility of (most) of the carebears to resist has created the idea that every Agent is fully knowledgeable about the Code and receives its full power. The reality is that it takes a while to become as invincible as the Savior of Highsec and the rest of us are only on a path to that level of rightousness. The Code protects us, gives us strength and guides us to the bot aspirants but you have to work WITH it, not against it.
Whetstone exists to keep us on the straight and narrow. I wish them great success.
Highsec is worth fighting for.
Bing Bangboom Agent of the New Order of Highsec Belligerent Undesirable Highsec is worth fighting for.
By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.-á www.minerbumping.com
|

Kyperion
119
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 23:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
350125GO wrote:Kyperion wrote:Holy shite this is a new level of delusion, and so long you can't even quote it. Kyperion wrote:and besides, even if you want to RP it; 'The Code' of the Warrior is defense of the helpless, and its just that simple.
No fancy language, no elaborate schemes, just the path of Honor. The true way of the warrior is death. This means choosing death whenever there is a choice between life and death. There is no other reasoning, no other code. (with apologies to Yamamoto Tsunetomo) Fixed quoting. ISD Ezwal.
Warriors without a code of honor are merely murderers.
|

loyalanon
The Conference Elite CODE.
189
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 23:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
That was an incredible TLDR post |

Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2305
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 00:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bing Bangboom wrote:When Whetstone first made its appearance on www.minerbumping.com I encouraged them to pursue this line of emergent gameplay. It is sorely needed as the New Order continues to expand across highsec. Everyone, no matter how many hundreds of miners bumped or ganked, has room for improvement and I do not exclude myself. I found a Covetor mining in Erenta a few weeks back. He was alone in an asteroid belt, lasers melting, and sitting immobile... right next to a Mobile Depot. I have never seen a miner with a MD sitting next to it and, at the time, paid it no mind. I decloaked, scanned the mining ship and found it to be lightly tanked. It would be no problem in this .6 system. Cloaked back up and moved to my warpin spot. Now comes the Destroyer. A Catalyst to be exact. I feinted to the north, flew my attack profile, came in under radar and locked and fired. The shields barely moved. I pounded away with all eight Light Ion Blaster IIs, making little headway. CONCORD eventually showed up and did the usual. I had barely scratched him. Decloaking again I scanned down the Covetor to find it tanked in every slot except the mining lasers. I had been had nicely. So, what happened? The miner, actually the pvper who used a Covetor for bait, had seen me decloak and had used the MD to swap out his alluring negligee of bot aspirancy for hard steel and shiny hardeners, not the good kind. I fell right into his trap and justifiably lost the battle. I wished him a GF at which point he told me he had actually come to Erenta to take me on. A great victory for him and a valuable lesson to me. The speed with which the New Order has established its dominance of highsec and the futility of (most) of the carebears to resist has created the idea that every Agent is fully knowledgeable about the Code and receives its full power. The reality is that it takes a while to become as invincible as the Savior of Highsec and the rest of us are only on a path to that level of rightousness. The Code protects us, gives us strength and guides us to the bot aspirants but you have to work WITH it, not against it. Whetstone exists to keep us on the straight and narrow. I wish them great success. Highsec is worth fighting for. Bing Bangboom Agent of the New Order of Highsec Belligerent Undesirable
I love it when we achieve a loss on the battlefield, and still achieve all of the goals of our war - forcing miners to play EVE, not ISK Progressquest.
Salute to the miner in question for setting a well-thought trap, and salute to James 315 for creating the context in which such a trap was needed.
I always learn more from lost fights than ones I win. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=318489 - Proposal for a new type of tech 2 Destroyer If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |

Michael Ruckert
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
111
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 06:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Whetstone getting The New Order squared away.
http://youtu.be/ur3121e_Cgg "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier |

350125GO
Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n
11
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 12:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:
Warriors without a larger sense of purpose and without Honor are merely murderers.
The true warrior knows that a resolution to die gives rise to a higher state of life. The honor lies in knowing your path.
The warrior should reside in all of us in Eve, not just the bumpers and the gankers.
|

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
315
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 17:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Fabulous! I look forward to being sharpened by the finest high sec has to offer! I was trying to think of a rebel group worth mentioning yesterday when a new player was asking who actually opposes the new order, and I was forced to mention some groups that haven't been active in high sec for months. I will certainly direct him towards Whetstone! New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |

Matrea D
Maggie's Magical Miners
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 20:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
This is the type of emergent gameplay that I have grown to embrace and love in the months I have been around EvE. The well-written stories that come after are just the cherry on top.
|

Whetstone Prime
University of Caille Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 04:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
We are Whetstone,
Questions have been asked of us, now we present our answers:
To Shederov Blood: To the Agent in question, and to all his ilk, we say that: New Order Agents have been rather polite as they speak in Local and are cordial even in defeat. In our silence we salute them.
To BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie: First we honestly hope that we are not the best High Sec has to offer, but we go forth knowing that what we have to offer is always our best.
We have read the Code, and after having witnessed first hand the Destroyer's of the New Order we must refine our statement as to how the Catalyst befouls the Code. First let us look to the Code to find the words that support our claim. We thank you for editing your post to bring it upon our thread. At first glance, perhaps you are right that the Code is empty on if a miner should fit a tank to his ship and it is only the encouraging words of Agents that have spread that message. We read the Code again and upon the third line, understanding comes upon us.
-Bot-aspirant behavior is not permitted.
Five little words, but lo, the meat and potatoes behind those words, the weight they carry into our souls. Let us ask ourselves what is Bot-aspirant, there are many definitions to that sentence, a prism of understand that waves upon all that look upon it. When we look upon it, it speaks to us that any behavior where you engage in an activity and expect nothing in that activity to engage back.
To exist in a universe that simply let you slip through, unseen, unnoticed. Like a wraith, looking upon the universe but unable to really interact with it. Tiny fragments of motion perhaps, but no lingering effects. What a sad and sullen existence to simply view the universe but not be part of it. We do not wish this existence to be upon any soul, for it destroys what humanity exists still within them. We stand up and say, "The universe will notice us, we will have an impact upon it and it will remember us." We breathe it's recycled air, we fire it's anti-matter, we caress it's torpedoes and we know we are alive.
We expect the universe to see us, that act upon us and we feel alive for it. The AFK miner, he does not expect this, is satisfied listing about from one rock to another, praying that the universe ignores him. This to us is Bot-aspirant behavior, to play in such a manner that you expect never to enter contact with anything that would act upon them. They expect all the actions to go in one direction, from them towards the universe and doing so in a manner that they expect the universe to never acknowledge that they are. This is wrong to us, these five words scream that you must allow the universe to know you exist. You must be prepared to receive it's acknowledgment. It is this reason we believe the Code demands that a miner tank his ship, he must be prepared to interact with the universe around him.
But lo, the Code is absolute, it applies to all the Children upon which the Order rests, for no one should be above the Code. In this we believe the Catalyst has failed the Code. It is not just the lack of tank, as we have seen, it is the lack of any preparation to the universe to act upon it. The Catalyst has only the one function, to act upon the universe and expect to receive nothing back until Concord appears to finish it. In Modern High Sec, everyone must go all in, half-way measures would not be acceptable in null sec, it should not be here as well. There are many we believe that will write off the Agents, collateral damage of the fight for High Sec, but we are not giving up on your souls. We will help you be a better warrior, to sharpen you to a keen edge. We love you and for this we open fire upon you.
And in this, we bring our Sharpening: The Mining Rokh
Once more, we set the stage and prime the players. Waiting for the audience to arrive. We position our Rokh safely within the belt, jet can, as in the olden days, by its side and Badger aligned to warp out. Our Operatives wait, this tempting scene and within hours are rewarded with two Agents coming into the warp in point. Sending the Badger to the station and popping the Jet Can as they slowly approach. It was like watching two lions creep upon a gazelle, and as they came into range, they yellow box our "miner", who in turned locked them back. The two slowed, either coming to their arranged distance or confused by being locked. Perhaps it is simply a newb that has not turned off his lock-back feature. There was no warning, only small blaster fire that echoed through the darkness. As the Rokh's shields started to deplete, they suddenly slowed and healed back, for this was no gazelle standing in the tall grass. It was an Operative Blokh, fully armed, shielded and hardened for Catalyst's hybrids. Instead of mining lasers, large blasters turned upon the nearest Cat. The fight ended quickly, Concord's assistance was really not required. Why did these Cat's die so quickly you may ask yourself
The haunting words uttered not that long ago echo in our hearts and minds.
"It wasn't ment to be shot at"
Is that not at least one facet of Bot-aspirantcy? To exist in the universe but feel that you weren't ment to be shot at? Are there not many ways to remove a Catalyst from a fight that the Agent fit does not plan for.
We intend to run a series of exercises so that we continue to expound upon this point in future Sharpenings.
One ship at a time, one heart at a time. Well sometimes to two ships and hearts at a time, We are changing this feeling.
Uncertainty, anonymity, these are as much are as much our shields as they are our sabers. We strike from the shadows, we retreat to them once more. To quote a great Agent, High Sec is certainly worth fighting for.
These are our words,
We are Whetstone We welcome all Agents to the Sharpening. |

Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2319
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 05:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
What is it with anti-NO rebels and all the crazy roleplaying? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=318489 - Proposal for a new type of tech 2 Destroyer If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |

Michael Ruckert
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
111
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 05:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
Quote:The haunting words uttered not that long ago echo in our hearts and minds.
"It wasn't ment to be shot at"
Is that not at least one facet of Bot-aspirantcy? To exist in the universe but feel that you weren't ment to be shot at? Are there not many ways to remove a Catalyst from a fight that the Agent fit does not plan for.
And thus it is written and spoken.
Amen. "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier |

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
318
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 06:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:What is it with anti-NO rebels and all the crazy roleplaying? I'm actually enjoying this one, and a lot of what NO does could be classified as role play.
"The catalyst is not meant to be shot at". This is not an issue. The issue with tanks and bot aspirancy is in expecting to be safe without fitting a tank, and not taking the appropriate means to defend yourself or accept your loss. In the case you have outlined, the agents should accept their loss and attempt a different method of ganking the rokh.
Consider this. If an agent fits a tank on a catalyst, they can reach approx 7k ehp at the cost of 3/4ths of their dps. You can do the math here, but is surviving maybe one additional shot from a Rokh worth the cost of having to use three more catalysts to achieve the same damage? Hardly. It is far more efficient for an agent to bring in additional dps and force the rokh to split guns.
Bot aspirancy does not lie in the fit of a ship. It lies in the capsuleer's actions. In the given case, a variety of mistakes were made, but they were not the fault of the lack of tank on gank ships. The rokh should have been ship and cargo scanned prior to the gank. The catalyst pilots should have checked if shield hardners were on. Any and all information gained from this step should have been used to evaluate the proper method to kill the Rokh.
Any agent or individual caught flying a fail fit ship and not taking appropriate precautions deserves what's coming for them, but this does not necessarily mean that they are bot-aspirants. That should be determined by their reaction to the loss of their ship. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |

Elmonky
Black Arbiter Squadron
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 12:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
As the main of a self confessed carebear, this thread both amuses me, and makes me want to play better. Kudos Whetstone. |

Sibyyl
293
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 14:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
Not sure OP is accomplishing what is being professed. I suspect Agents understand "live by the sword, die by the sword".
More content should be welcomed by all. Your writeup was interesting and it's always good to read on different tactics.
/Fÿ¡ Now that you are *campers* you will have more *parties* and no more *sad* *lonely* *bubbles*. |

Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
220
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 16:28:00 -
[32] - Quote
How I counter NO:
1. Tank up 2. Bring escort 3. Watch overview
Simple and effective. I have been ganked once because I neglected to do this. But they normally won't try to gank you if it looks like you won't pop. The lack of money is the root of all evil. |

Tear Jar
The Conference Elite CODE.
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 19:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
I have encountered this a few times in my ganking. Its a good strategy. Fortunately, Catalysts are cheap.
I often fall for this sort of bait because some of the times I end up getting the kill anyway. |

Winchester Steele
445
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 00:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:Shederov Blood wrote:Kyperion wrote:Holy shite this is a new level of delusion, and so long you can't even quote it.
*Snip* Please refrain from discussing forum moderation. ISD Ezwal. *Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.I would have thought someone like yourself would have loved the fact that they are baiting and killing gankers. such a wall of text I couldn't get myself to read past the part where it first mentions 'the code' tortured myself to read the whole thing.... and well, blah... If the good people of highsec are going to band together to **** up some code wankers, we don't need walls of text to justify it. A simple "We're taking our space back from the cultist cabal" would suffice. and besides, even if you want to RP it; 'The Code' of the Warrior is defense of the helpless, and its just that simple. No fancy language, no elaborate schemes, just the path of Honor.
Your the only wanker I see here, for CODE. or against. HTH. This game is built around the likes of us. It's not the assholes that are playing the wrong game. - James Amril-Kesh. |

Subject 4927
AwoxxowA
34
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 03:07:00 -
[35] - Quote
Why do people have to make such simple things such as murdering miners who don't follow the rules into some creepy cult like service.
Death should be kept simple. |

Real Serious PVPer
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 03:39:00 -
[36] - Quote
Not enough serious PVP in this for me to be worth getting involved in. -áSerious about being serious- Putting the "P "into PVP one fight at a time. -áMUFC |

Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2324
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 05:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:I have encountered this a few times in my ganking. Its a good strategy. Fortunately, Catalysts are cheap.
I often fall for this sort of bait because some of the times I end up getting the kill anyway.
Yeah my attitude is usually to 'YOLO' it when there might be an anti-ganker around.
Losses are better lessons than successful kills usually. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 --áPsychotic Monk for CSM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |

Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
347
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 06:45:00 -
[38] - Quote
This shtick seems vaguely familiar....... |

Tengu Grib
Maniacal Laughter Ltd.
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:08:00 -
[39] - Quote
Darek Castigatus wrote:'we think some of the NO are bad at what they do, we want to make them not bad by cunning application of elementary tactics' then add Kyperions usual crap about cultists and season to taste.
That summary was much more legible and meaningful. Pretty cool concept really. I'm pretty new the New Order myself, but I'm working to make myself better.
Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. |

Tengu Grib
Maniacal Laughter Ltd.
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:38:00 -
[40] - Quote
I do have something to say about the "It wasn't meant to be shot at" talk.
Maybe someone will disagree with me on this, but to me there are two different types of "it wasn't meant to be shot at" claims which have very different meanings.
tl;dr version: "It wasn't meant to be shot at." doesn't always mean "I am bot aspirant and think high sec should be a safe place to live."
1. "I am in high sec and CONCORD will protect me so I do not need to fit a tank because I am safe."
- This type of thinking is attributed to a number of people in high sec including untanked miners, autopiloting freighters, untanked industrials... the list goes on. -This type of thinking is poisonous to Eve and should be swiftly punished by any agents in the area, or anyone with the firepower and the will to make High Sec a better place.
2. "This ships is going to explode no matter what so I don't need a tank." Or, "this fit is designed for one purpose and one purpose only, getting shot at by a competent well prepared enemy is not that purpose."
examples: If I do not fit a tank on a thorax before going into battle then I should fully expect to get my ass handed to me and would be silly if I complained when I lost that ship. However if I fit a tank on a catalyst that is to be used for a suicide gank, I am an idiot and deserve to be blasted apart by CONCORD with my target still happily in half shields because my fit is horrible.
The gank catalyst is not meant to be shot at by a serious combat opponent. If I were to take a gank fit catalyst into a fight against a war target, I'm going to die. Quickly. Because that fit is not meant to be shot at.
If your gank target has a tank fit and combat drones, it's possible he'll kill you before CONCORD even shows up. And that would be a job well done for the gank target, and a bad tactical choice on the part of the ganker. However this situation doesn't happen very often, most gank targets are unprepared to fend off attackers and don't defend themselves in an effective manner, instead relying on CONCORD for protection.
A similar argument could be made for other purpose built fits. There are situations where "it wasn't meant to be shot at" can be more accurately translated to mean "it wasn't designed to be shot at by any credible threat and if that does actually happen it will likely explode in a ball of fire and hilarity because of some horrible mistake I made." Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. |

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
334
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 20:35:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:I do have something to say about the "It wasn't meant to be shot at" talk.
Maybe someone will disagree with me on this, but to me there are two different types of "it wasn't meant to be shot at" claims which have very different meanings.
tl;dr version: "It wasn't meant to be shot at." doesn't always mean "I am bot aspirant and think high sec should be a safe place to live."
1. "I am in high sec and CONCORD will protect me so I do not need to fit a tank because I am safe."
- This type of thinking is attributed to a number of people in high sec including untanked miners, autopiloting freighters, untanked industrials... the list goes on. -This type of thinking is poisonous to Eve and should be swiftly punished by any agents in the area, or anyone with the firepower and the will to make High Sec a better place.
2. "This ships is going to explode no matter what so I don't need a tank." Or, "this fit is designed for one purpose and one purpose only, getting shot at by a competent well prepared enemy is not that purpose."
examples: If I do not fit a tank on a thorax before going into battle then I should fully expect to get my ass handed to me and would be silly if I complained when I lost that ship. However if I fit a tank on a catalyst that is to be used for a suicide gank, I am an idiot and deserve to be blasted apart by CONCORD with my target still happily in half shields because my fit is horrible.
The gank catalyst is not meant to be shot at by a serious combat opponent. If I were to take a gank fit catalyst into a fight against a war target, I'm going to die. Quickly. Because that fit is not meant to be shot at.
If your gank target has a tank fit and combat drones, it's possible he'll kill you before CONCORD even shows up. And that would be a job well done for the gank target, and a bad tactical choice on the part of the ganker. However this situation doesn't happen very often, most gank targets are unprepared to fend off attackers and don't defend themselves in an effective manner, instead relying on CONCORD for protection.
A similar argument could be made for other purpose built fits. There are situations where "it wasn't meant to be shot at" can be more accurately translated to mean "it wasn't designed to be shot at by any credible threat and if that does actually happen it will likely explode in a ball of fire and hilarity because of some horrible mistake I made." This is a much better explanation of what I was trying to say earlier. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |

Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2406
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 22:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote: If your gank target has a tank fit and combat drones, it's possible he'll kill you before CONCORD even shows up. And that would be a job well done for the gank target, and a bad tactical choice on the part of the ganker. However this situation doesn't happen very often, most gank targets are unprepared to fend off attackers and don't defend themselves in an effective manner, instead relying on CONCORD for protection.
That requires the target to not be AFK. In that case, they deserve to fend off the gank attempt - they laid a trap, got someone to walk into it, and pulled the trigger at the right time on it.
Just like someone sending a Hyperion with almost all mods dedicated to local active tanking into a gatecamp, waiting for the gatecamp to pull the trigger, then calling in reinforcements.
I've lost gank ships prior to CONCORD showing up on rare occasions, and I always get my pod out, then type 'GF' in local. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 --áPsychotic Monk for CSM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |

Tengu Grib
Maniacal Laughter Ltd.
13
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 23:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Tengu Grib wrote: If your gank target has a tank fit and combat drones, it's possible he'll kill you before CONCORD even shows up. And that would be a job well done for the gank target, and a bad tactical choice on the part of the ganker. However this situation doesn't happen very often, most gank targets are unprepared to fend off attackers and don't defend themselves in an effective manner, instead relying on CONCORD for protection.
That requires the target to not be AFK. In that case, they deserve to fend off the gank attempt - they laid a trap, got someone to walk into it, and pulled the trigger at the right time on it. Just like someone sending a Hyperion with almost all mods dedicated to local active tanking into a gatecamp, waiting for the gatecamp to pull the trigger, then calling in reinforcements. I've lost gank ships prior to CONCORD showing up on rare occasions, and I always get my pod out, then type 'GF' in local.
I agree with you %100. Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. |

General Lemming
Darwins Lemmings Holding Darwins Lemmings
169
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 23:23:00 -
[44] - Quote
TLDR, You lost me at 'Greetings'...........  |

Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
250
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 05:55:00 -
[45] - Quote
I iz in yo belts minin' yo aztroids  The lack of money is the root of all evil. |

Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
889
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 07:49:00 -
[46] - Quote
General Lemming wrote:TLDR, You lost me at 'Greetings'...........  Can someone explain to me why so many people feel the need to advertise their illiteracy on this forum? It seems that every time there is a thread OP longer than two short sentences we are deluged with TL;DR responses.
What does it add?
You didn't read it. Your opinion is worthless. The fact that you are intimidated by more than a paragraph is illuminating. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |

General Lemming
Darwins Lemmings Holding Darwins Lemmings
170
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 08:42:00 -
[47] - Quote
Zappity wrote:General Lemming wrote:TLDR, You lost me at 'Greetings'...........  Can someone explain to me why so many people feel the need to advertise their illiteracy on this forum? It seems that every time there is a thread OP longer than two short sentences we are deluged with TL;DR responses. What does it add? You didn't read it. Your opinion is worthless. The fact that you are intimidated by more than a paragraph is illuminating. Why do some people always need to point out to the world, when someone acts outside their comfort zone ? The ones even worse are the ones claiming their way is 100% ok and the rest is worthless. So damn arrogant. 
If I wanted to read long pages of text, I would read a book. TLDR replies, give people an indication that they might want to shorten their replies and get more to the point.
|

Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
890
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 08:55:00 -
[48] - Quote
General Lemming wrote:Zappity wrote:General Lemming wrote:TLDR, You lost me at 'Greetings'...........  Can someone explain to me why so many people feel the need to advertise their illiteracy on this forum? It seems that every time there is a thread OP longer than two short sentences we are deluged with TL;DR responses. What does it add? You didn't read it. Your opinion is worthless. The fact that you are intimidated by more than a paragraph is illuminating. Why do some people always need to point out to the world, when someone acts outside their comfort zone ? The ones even worse are the ones claiming their way is 100% ok and the rest is worthless. So damn arrogant.  If I wanted to read long pages of text, I would read a book. TLDR replies, give people an indication that they might want to shorten their replies and get more to the point. But the whole point of it was to build a roleplay narrative. Kind of defeats the purpose to write, "Um, I don't like CODE and I want you to stop. So I'm going to counter gank you." Or, perhaps, "I just wanted to bring some more attention to CODE so you guys should all, um, do that."
But you wouldn't understand that, not having read it. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |

General Lemming
Darwins Lemmings Holding Darwins Lemmings
170
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 22:26:00 -
[49] - Quote
You can always add some : We are 1337, come to 0.0 you care bear, you re just ganking, YARR!!!!! or other dramatic things in it. Must be me, I just like to get to the point and in your face ( I know, that's what she said).  |

Sawdeth Alumini
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 02:51:00 -
[50] - Quote
Whetstone Prime. You can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk. |
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