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We need more material research slots, badly.

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Gamer4liff	Posted - 2006.04.29 21:06:00 - [1] Edited by: Gamer4liff on 29/04/2006 21:10:05 I am of the opinion that we have far, far too few material slots anywhere for researching material efficiency. Even in lowsec there is a distinct paucity of slots avalible. For the population that we have now, we desperately need more material research slots. This is really hurting people as myself who have a lot of skill points dedicated to research. As I am expecting an outcry of "get a pos n00b" I shall reiterate that for corps of medium size, this is not a doable solution. Can we at least get an extension of Material efficiency slots in lowsec, if nothing more? Edit: ment to post in game development forum.
Ta chaina	Posted - 2006.04.29 23:17:00 - [2] Get a pos noob :) No really I think what might help is another skill to speed research up a bit, or maybe even two new skills for it.
ReaperOfSly	Posted - 2006.04.30 00:35:00 - [3] Edited by: ReaperOfSly on 30/04/2006 00:36:04 Even in the back and beyond where I live, the shortest queue for a material research slot is 5 days. Of course long queues like this make things worse because it's only worth putting a BPO onto research if you set it to go for weeks. That make the queues even longer still. What was wrong with the old system where a labslot could be used for copying, PE and ME research? We had plenty of slots then. There are so many vacant PE slots, it's ludicrous. At the very least, you should change the ratio of ME/PE/COPY from 20/20/10 to 30/10/10. EDIT: and yes I'm actually considering putting up the isk for a small pos with lab slot - that's how bad it is . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signatures must be eve related - Laqum Huh? Since when? - ReaperOfSly
Qolde	Posted - 2006.04.30 00:46:00 - [4] I can agree with the argument that there are too few slots for ME research. For the small one time fee of 200 million isk, + 12 million isk per week, you can buy your very own Small Unarmed POS and Mobile Laboratory with a whopping 1 slot. Hmmm. But I guess it's fair in a very Eveish(is this a word yet?) way.
Gamer4liff	Posted - 2006.04.30 01:24:00 - [5] Originally by: Ta chaina Get a pos noob :) No really I think what might help is another skill to speed research up a bit, or maybe even two new skills for it. Come to think about it, this would solve the problem nicely, with 2-5 more slots per research station.
Dev7	Posted - 2006.04.30 11:47:00 - [6] Yeah we need indeed more of these research slots...!
Tarron Sarek	Posted - 2006.04.30 11:57:00 - [7] I'd say we don't need more slots, we need less slot-hogging.
Dev7	Posted - 2006.04.30 11:59:00 - [8] no we need more slots... way to more..cause eve just growing and usage of these slots are increasing... so we need more..!
Spoon Thumb	Posted - 2006.04.30 14:29:00 - [9] Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 30/04/2006 14:34:18 If you could rent out your POS lab slots to others, then that'd alleviate the problem and create a whole new industry on the side. *** Spoon Thumb - I can scoop ice cream with my thumbs! orange
Gamer4liff	Posted - 2006.04.30 14:56:00 - [10] Originally by: Tarron Sarek I'd say we don't need more slots, we need less slot-hogging. I'm sorry but it would have to be one hell of a campaign to stop people from doing that. Not going to happen =P.

Tarron Sarek	Posted - 2006.04.30 15:41:00 - [11] Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 30/04/2006 15:44:25 Oh you don't have to be sorry - I agree ;) Well, the problem I see is that additional slots would probably be filled just as fast as they are now. Perhaps by the same people. There's no guarantee for a more evenly distribution. And it's not unlikely it would still look like there are too few slots. So the first thing would be to figure out how CCP wanted the system to work. Are the slots meant to be limited ? Should there be enough slots for everybody ? How many slots should there be ? "We need more" / "There are not enough" is simply too unprecise and subjective.
Gamer4liff	Posted - 2006.04.30 15:53:00 - [12] I didn't exactly see anybody complaining when they raised the generic research slot count back in the day. More slots would be a good move on thier part to make more people happy.
Tarron Sarek	Posted - 2006.04.30 16:08:00 - [13] I'd also like to see more research slots. But this needs some concept.
Caer Lakief	Posted - 2006.04.30 21:40:00 - [14] Maybe instead of adding more reasearch slots as said earlier CCP could add more skills that speed up research time. Along with this they could give us some "better" pos modules for researching rather than just one slot. Maybe tech two mobile laboratory anyone?
Hilabana	Posted - 2006.05.01 00:52:00 - [15] Are you all a bunch of Noobs ?? you do know you can Stack on top of another person in the Labs and Factorys right ?? so stop crying and put up with it there are far more importent things for them to fix in this game then adding slots they do not need ! ______________________________________________ Im just a Older person having fun in the best Game ever made in the world -=[ EVE-ONLINE ]=- ----------------------------------------------
Gamer4liff	Posted - 2006.05.01 01:44:00 - [16] Originally by: Hilabana Are you all a bunch of Noobs ?? you do know you can Stack on top of another person in the Labs and Factorys right ?? so stop crying and put up with it there are far more importent things for them to fix in this game then adding slots they do not need ! Thank you for keen your keen words of wisdom. A 9-16+ day wait is too long to have to wait. Begone from my thread, Now.
Cypherous	Posted - 2006.05.01 02:30:00 - [17] I like the idea of speeding up research, i don't have many problems with labs there are 2 systems next to me and some of them have a wait of about a day at most on them for ME slots but thats out in 0.0 :) O RLY?! --Jorauk Way cooler than Jorauk - Cortes
DHU InMe	Posted - 2006.05.01 04:17:00 - [18] Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 29/04/2006 21:10:05 I am of the opinion that we have far, far too few material slots anywhere for researching material efficiency. Even in lowsec there is a distinct paucity of slots avalible. For the population that we have now, we desperately need more material research slots. This is really hurting people as myself who have a lot of skill points dedicated to research. As I am expecting an outcry of "get a pos n00b" I shall reiterate that for corps of medium size, this is not a doable solution. Can we at least get an extension of Material efficiency slots in lowsec, if nothing more? Edit: ment to post in game development forum. We have like: 20 Production Efficiency (10% usage) 20 Mineral Efficiency (100% usage) 10 Copy (100% usage) what about removing 15 from production effiency and it coudl look like: 5 Production Efficiency (100% usage) 30 Mineral Efficiency (100% usage) 15 Copy (100% usage) __ BP n bugs Got a new idea ? (Last updated 5 Sept 05)
Ellaine TashMurkon	Posted - 2006.05.01 04:59:00 - [19] Prices shuld by altered by usage per station, that wuld solve the problem. Once a week do price recalculation like this; If a station has some slots unused, lower the renting price by 1% for each unused slot. If a station has all slots used but the shortest queue is less then 3 days, that's a stable sot market, leave the price as is. Otherwise, increase the price by 1% per each full 3 days of the shortest queue. Or something like this :) Removing unused PE slots wuld be good too, but altering the effect of PE to make it usefull for things bigger then ammo wuld be better.
Hilabana	Posted - 2006.05.01 15:01:00 - [20] I like your post better ! there are a number of skills they have taken out do to some players not liking them. but if they had put more skills in to define the type of game player there is then there will be more jobs for more players ! not all players like going around blowing up every thing some of us like the smaller things that make up eve. Such as making BPC's for free to help other people. or refining ore for them and helping them learn what good lvl 5 skills can do for them. Originally by: Ta chaina snip No really I think what might help is another skill to speed research up a bit, or maybe even two new skills for it. ______________________________________________ Im just a Older person having fun in the best Game ever made in the world -=[ EVE-ONLINE ]=- ----------------------------------------------

Drizit	Posted - 2006.05.01 16:25:00 - [21] Increased usage costs would be an idea. Instead of penalising everyone though, would it be better to penalise those who hog the slots? 1% higher usage cost per hour for research orders >1. Those who stack orders to hog the slots would be penalised more by stacking. We can then put in one research order in an empty slot and pay the normal cost, if we stack another behind it, we get penalised for the second one. If we put in two orders in two empty slots, we are not penalised for either. If we stack one behind someone else's, the first one we stack isn't penalised but the second one we stack on someone else's order is. It would not slow down ME and BPC research, but it would certainly slow down hogging the slots by stacking them so much and give everyone a fair chance at getting empty slots or slots with little time left. A lot of BPC research is unnecessary. I see a lot of BPC scams on Escrow like 1000 run BPC for T1 ammo and missiles costing as much as a BPO anyway. So a lot of slots are being taken just so the user can scam other players. --
Hilabana	Posted - 2006.05.01 16:46:00 - [22] To have people with LVL 5 skills is not penalising for if they have LVL 5 skills the time it takes to do things is faster ! What slows down the Labs is the new player learning how to do things. so why pick on them for learning what many of us know is that if we have our Lab Skills up to lvl 5 things go much faster. I have seen a mess of open Lab slots in Low sec and a large number of them in High Sec. The prob is many do not know how to use them. Or have all the skills they need for them. Originally by: Drizit Increased usage costs would be an idea. Instead of penalising everyone though, would it be better to penalise those who hog the slots? 1% higher usage cost per hour for research orders >1. Those who stack orders to hog the slots would be penalised more by stacking. We can then put in one research order in an empty slot and pay the normal cost, if we stack another behind it, we get penalised for the second one. If we put in two orders in two empty slots, we are not penalised for either. If we stack one behind someone else's, the first one we stack isn't penalised but the second one we stack on someone else's order is. It would not slow down ME and BPC research, but it would certainly slow down hogging the slots by stacking them so much and give everyone a fair chance at getting empty slots or slots with little time left. A lot of BPC research is unnecessary. I see a lot of BPC scams on Escrow like 1000 run BPC for T1 ammo and missiles costing as much as a BPO anyway. So a lot of slots are being taken just so the user can scam other players. ______________________________________________ Im just a Older person having fun in the best Game ever made in the world -=[ EVE-ONLINE ]=- ----------------------------------------------
Dutarro	Posted - 2006.05.01 19:05:00 - [23] Edited by: Dutarro on 01/05/2006 19:06:27 Edited by: Dutarro on 01/05/2006 19:05:58 Originally by: Spoon Thumb Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 30/04/2006 14:34:18 If you could rent out your POS lab slots to others, then that'd alleviate the problem and create a whole new industry on the side. Yes, I agree that POS lab slots could be a solution to the problem, with a few tweaks: 1) Fix the bug whereby BPOs cannot be installed in a POS mobile lab from one's personal hangar. This bug prevents characters outside the corp/alliance from installing BPOs in a POS. 2) When searching for a research installation, display all available installations, don't segregate them by Public, Corporation, etc. This will make player-built lab slots more visible when they have been opened for rent to the public. 3) Change the way a corp's faction standing is calculated. A player corp's standing with an NPC corp can be lifted by just a couple high-standing members, so why not apply the same rule to NPC faction standing? A relatively small number of excellent agent runners should be enough to raise the faction standing of the whole corp. The current system requires EVERYONE in a corp to be an excellent agent runner, in order to anchor POS in high sec. 4) Allow POS to be anchored in deep space, not just at moons, so that a moon shortage won't artificially restrict the number of labs you can build. High sec POS can't mine moon minerals anyway, so why do they need to be at a moon? 5) BPCs produced in a mobile lab should be delivered to the hangar from which the BPO was installed, not to the POS.
Ellaine TashMurkon	Posted - 2006.05.01 20:23:00 - [24] The ME research cost per day is only dependent to station, yes? I mean - it doesn't matter what You research, who You are so. Or it does?
Drizit	Posted - 2006.05.01 21:55:00 - [25] Edited by: Drizit on 01/05/2006 21:56:06 Originally by: Hilabana To have people with LVL 5 skills is not penalising for if they have LVL 5 skills the time it takes to do things is faster ! What slows down the Labs is the new player learning how to do things. so why pick on them for learning what many of us know is that if we have our Lab Skills up to lvl 5 things go much faster. I have seen a mess of open Lab slots in Low sec and a large number of them in High Sec. The prob is many do not know how to use them. Or have all the skills they need for them. The only reason most of these are empty is the cost per hour. I've seen costs between 50 isk and 5000 isk per hour for slots. The more expensive ones are usually pretty empty. Nobody wants to do ME research on a ship BPO that's going to take a week or more at 5K isk per hour because it eats into your profits. BPO's that take 1 or 2 hours are just as bad since they are for items like ammo and profit margins for that are minimal at best. If you have high level skills, the skills reduce the time required, that's true. However, it doesn't prevent you from stacking multiple orders behind each other and hogging the slots any more than a noob with practically no skills. The fact that you use facilities in lowsec means you don't hog the ones in highsec and if you have 5 free slots there, you can place 5 jobs without penalty using my idea. The stacking is what causes the penalty, not the number of jobs you have running. Those with less skills and don't know how to use them are less likely to stack if they have penalties for it, especially if they are warned before they accept the quote that it's going to cost more. If the cost is almost the same as using one of the high cost slots if they stack week long jobs, they wouldn't do it for the same reason they don't rent one of the high cost slots. The other benefit is that it's calculated per hour so those with lvl5 skills would still pay considerably less to stack jobs than a noob would because the same job would take them far less hours to research. If someone is still learning, they should be aware that their increased time is clogging the system, by allowing them to place their own limit how many jobs they place at once due to costs, it frees up slots for more skilled players who can get in and out quickly and free up the slot once more. The initial idea of the hourly rate was to encourage more players to learn the skills necessary to reduce those costs. I am simply proposing an extension of that original idea which does not penalise them for not learning the skills as long as they only stack one job, it simply imposes more of a penalty for using multiple stacked slots with low skills. I have relatively low skills myself but the ability to have 3 jobs running at once. I don't place any more than one at a time simply because I have the intelligence to understand the problems people face trying to find free slots. Evidently there are those who have less thought for others and need a nudge to remind them. There has and never will be any better nudge than one that's aimed at the wallet. Edit: grammar --
Mihail d'Amour	Posted - 2006.05.02 14:05:00 - [26] I've seen stations with 7K/hour research costs and they have 0 currently free slots and usually a 4-7 day waiting period. Increasing the slots on POS arrays would make them economically viable. Right now the total operating cost of a POS in high-sec is more than you could reasonably expect to recoup in lab-slot rentals even if that is all that your POS did. If the ME slots per lab were raised to just 5, a few enterprising souls could actually solve this problem for CCP and make a few isk at the same time. ---------------------------------------------- In nomine Domine, quod erat malum


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