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Stargates are incredibly dense

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Aramova	Posted - 2006.05.01 05:47:00 - [31] Originally by: Eximius Josari The stargate god ate my Freighter. So THATS why my freighter full of zyd was empty when I got to the other side!! -- signature nerfed due to 700 bytes :(
Zezman	Posted - 2006.05.01 07:52:00 - [32] Perhaps a dev could shed some light on these incredibly dense and cosmologically heavy stargates?
Stephen HB	Posted - 2006.05.01 10:07:00 - [33] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Zezman Ok, then what would be the schwartschild radius of something this dense? How large would a black hole be at the density of a stargate? Black holes by definition are a certain size, by the formula for the schwarzchild radius. Their density can be determined from their size. The only thing their size depends on is mass, nothing else. I would think that, by definition, the event horizon of a black hole is at the Schwarzchild radius. The actual singularity wouldn't have to occupy the whole internal volume of the black hole, and could be much denser than dividing its mass by the total volume enclosed by the event horizon. -- Originally by: Drayce Between the learning skills and the tutorial, Eve is like a firewall against the attention deficit kids. EVE Tracking Guide
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.05.01 10:16:00 - [34] Originally by: Stephen HB Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Zezman Ok, then what would be the schwartschild radius of something this dense? How large would a black hole be at the density of a stargate? Black holes by definition are a certain size, by the formula for the schwarzchild radius. Their density can be determined from their size. The only thing their size depends on is mass, nothing else. I would think that, by definition, the event horizon of a black hole is at the Schwarzchild radius. The actual singularity wouldn't have to occupy the whole internal volume of the black hole, and could be much denser than dividing its mass by the total volume enclosed by the event horizon. But that doesn't matter, because the event horizon is the limit of our universe anyways. Density of black holes is calculated by using the event horizon, because it is impossible to do otherwise with any certainty. [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Manfred Doomhammer	Posted - 2006.05.01 11:39:00 - [35] Originally by: Lamic Tarvalla Since it's only 1 m3 you should be able to scoop it into your cargo bay of your shuttle and take off with it. That way you can really lock down a system would be a funny scene, you in your shuttle and suddenly the stargate receiving an incoming charon ---- Manfred Doomhammer CEO ShadowTec Inc.
welsh wizard	Posted - 2006.05.01 11:52:00 - [36] I thought this thread was about stargates being stupid. :(
Tachy	Posted - 2006.05.01 12:01:00 - [37] YOU! You caused the problems by opening this thread. Pilots successfully bumped some gates out of alignment, sending ships into nothingness! --==*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray
ReaperOfSly	Posted - 2006.05.01 12:09:00 - [38] Solar systems are also only 1m3. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signatures must be eve related - Laqum Huh? Since when? - ReaperOfSly
sallyr	Posted - 2006.05.01 12:30:00 - [39] wait a mo a black hole right. . .but how the hell can we actualy measure the density of a black hole, we can THEORISE!!! but by all definition infomation cannot be sent out from a blackhole! unless your talking about some kind of quantum entanglment or using gravitons to send information or hell why not use a good old set of tachions but anyway, ether way having a stargate heavier then a black hole kind of makes sence in someways as your talking about a device that transports matter instentaniously (bar lag :P) from one place to another to do this its going to need to be able to creat a wormhole. but if your right, what does that mean. . .omg another thing in eve . . that doesnt make sence how about the fact that your taking a game so seriously that what doesnt make sence. there are so many little problems in eve that dont make sence . . but no1 cares lol how about u fix the actual problems in eve like the sallyrs uncirtanty princible which states: if a body is at constant acceleration towards a unknown place to all bodys but its own, and then another body which is deccelerating enters the first bodys frame of referance while the first body is attacking battleship rats. Then there is a constantly veriable chance that 1 or more of the first bodys drones will accelerate towards it and then stop just out of scooping range!!!! (\_/) (O.o) (> <)
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.05.01 12:58:00 - [40] Originally by: sallyr wait a mo a black hole right. . .but how the hell can we actualy measure the density of a black hole, we can THEORISE!!! but by all definition infomation cannot be sent out from a blackhole! The mass of a black hole is determined by its gravitational effect on other stellar bodies of measurable mass. The size is determinable by the effect it has of absorbing radiation - it masks things behind it. So the density is determinable. Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.

Za Po	Posted - 2006.05.01 13:19:00 - [41] Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 01/05/2006 01:12:59 [half-assed theory] You know, if the mass and volume numbers were set as such to make stargates immobile, that would explain stargate drift and why old instas are often inaccurate. When a ship bumps the gate, the mass differential would mean that the gate would be bumped an infinitessimally small amount while the bumping ship would bounce right off. With enough of these tiny movements the gate eventually moves out of insta range, though it would take half a year or more judging by the rate of stargate drift I've observed. [/half-assed theory] Numerical approximation in the game servers would make this impossible. 10^5 / 10^35 = 0. Making a program that can deal with that kind of calculation is impractical. -------------------- Do you have a solution to the BM and instas problem? Test it against the bookmark requirements.
Viktor Fyretracker	Posted - 2006.05.01 13:30:00 - [42] well stargates are also scaled wrong as some ships wont even fit through them even though they can use them(and im talking some BS sized ships). so id take mass and volume numbers with a grain of salt because even the graphic is too small. they are just floating things to look at rather then a tiny jump becon.
sallyr	Posted - 2006.05.01 13:31:00 - [43] Originally by: Nyphur The mass of a black hole is determined by its gravitational effect on other stellar bodies of measurable mass. The size is determinable by the effect it has of absorbing radiation - it masks things behind it. So the density is determinable. . . .i think what that guy said about the radius sounds more logical as again the actual density of the black hole is rather a lot to assume frankly, seen as the event horizon is basically the no going back bit. So how we can do anything more then theories the effects it has on the power of the actual black hole is rather a big asumption. lol what am i saying that all physics is a bunch of asumptions which state that we should not take our everyday asumptions literally! like the asumption that gravitons exist because we cant explain it any other way. Like charge what the hell is that then?? physics is a way of explaining what we by definition still to not have the ability to explain. Just a bunch of theroys that start of right like newtons f=ma etc, they work . . .untill u get on to the whole dark matter bit . . oh and dark energy, all caused by us getting ahead of ourselves. why should dark matter exist anymore then actual gravity be able to bend. If time can bend why cant gravity, simply because we have based our whole physics knowledge on the fact that it works this way! A remarkable similarity with what the Catholic church was like in newtons era. So how we can ever start to try and work out using astrology (1 of the more variable side of physics) we can start asuming things as large as the density of the black whole using things like what its mass was before it went all black and holy. when we don't even know whats going on, what caused mass. what makes energy mass etc. before you can start working out the black hole you first have to address the actual asumtions that we have relied upon for so long and never questioned. i love physics, it amazes me and makes me laugh at the same time. not only that but to assume so much and then compleatly debunk the existence of god. science has gotten to a point now where it really is a question of faith in your asumptions. when thats all religion is as well... im nether a religious man nor a very adept scientist. however i can tell the difference between what is esentualy mathematical speculation and actual fact. using this method i here by PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF GOD . . hes over there -->> cant u see him . . i can . . . can u prove i cant . . . -sallyr ---------------------------------------------------- incompetence level 5 punctuation level 1 spelling level 0 (\_/) (O.o) (> <)
Bagdh Dearg	Posted - 2006.05.01 13:33:00 - [44] Well apparently the mass of the sun of the system im in is nothing at all so I think they are just covering all bases incase they ever need to implement something involving weight and mass. _______________________________________________ An tT nach bhfuil lßidir nf folßir d= bheith glic -He who is not strong must be crafty
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.05.01 13:39:00 - [45] Originally by: sallyr Originally by: Nyphur The mass of a black hole is determined by its gravitational effect on other stellar bodies of measurable mass. The size is determinable by the effect it has of absorbing radiation - it masks things behind it. So the density is determinable. . . .i think what that guy said about the radius sounds more logical as again the actual density of the black hole is rather a lot to assume frankly, seen as the event horizon is basically the no going back bit. So how we can do anything more then theories the effects it has on the power of the actual black hole is rather a big asumption. Do you know what "theory" means? It means something that has been proved so rigorously that it is as close to fact as it can possibly get. For example, Quantum Chromodynamics is one of the most accurate theories in history, matching measurements to 10-15 decimals--it is considered basically infallible for predicting what is in its range of validity. Special Relativity is similarly accurate. The entire theory is derived from two simple assumptions: the speed of light is the same in all reference frames, and the laws of physics are the same in all reference frames. Everything else is entirely derived from previous knowledge. The Schwarzchild Radius can actually be calculated using Newton's theories, let alone Einstein's. [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Zezman	Posted - 2006.05.01 13:47:00 - [46] lol.... all I said was that the stargate was very dense comparing the mass to the volume. There are some amazing tangents that people are shooting off in on this topic. We might as well talk about the movie United 93, after all, alot of physics happened on 9/11.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.05.01 13:49:00 - [47] Originally by: Zezman lol.... all I said was that the stargate was very dense comparing the mass to the volume. There are some amazing tangents that people are shooting off in on this topic. We might as well talk about the movie United 93, after all, alot of physics happened on 9/11. Oh god no, not more conspiracy theories, or my head is going to explode [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
sallyr	Posted - 2006.05.01 13:52:00 - [48] Edited by: sallyr on 01/05/2006 13:53:21 Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: sallyr Originally by: Nyphur The mass of a black hole is determined by its gravitational effect on other stellar bodies of measurable mass. The size is determinable by the effect it has of absorbing radiation - it masks things behind it. So the density is determinable. . . .i think what that guy said about the radius sounds more logical as again the actual density of the black hole is rather a lot to assume frankly, seen as the event horizon is basically the no going back bit. So how we can do anything more then theories the effects it has on the power of the actual black hole is rather a big asumption. Do you know what "theory" means? It means something that has been proved so rigorously that it is as close to fact as it can possibly get. For example, Quantum Chromodynamics is one of the most accurate theories in history, matching measurements to 10-15 decimals--it is considered basically infallible for predicting what is in its range of validity. Special Relativity is similarly accurate. The entire theory is derived from two simple assumptions: the speed of light is the same in all reference frames, and the laws of physics are the same in all reference frames. Everything else is entirely derived from previous knowledge. The Schwarzchild Radius can actually be calculated using Newton's theories, let alone Einstein's. dude . . i can see god . . .can u not only that but the fact that as soon as u entre the eventymejiggy how can the rules of physics apply or atleast how can u ever prove that they apply not only that but a theory is "An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture" - dictionary.com thats the point our knowlage is infinitly limited because of the infinate nature of this universe therefore all equations are in question it is my OPINION (which is frankly the only cirtainty here physics as a whole is a veriable) that to know the true density of the black hole you would actualy need to be in the even horizen, as our lack of understanding of gravity and the fact that the blackhole cannot be viewed as our universe because of the lack of any infomation that can be transfered from it. all we can speculate on here is the effect that the black hole has on our universe, and that i will not contest. it is hardly proff of the black hole mass or density however, simply a likely result. and no i cant be assed to currect my really crappy spelling punctuation and general lack of knowlage (\_/) (O.o) (> <)
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.05.01 13:57:00 - [49] Originally by: sallyr dude . . i can see god . . .can u not only that but the fact that as soon as u entre the eventymejiggy how can the rules of physics apply or atleast how can u ever prove that they apply not only that but a theory is "An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture" - dictionary.com thats the point our knowlage is infinitly limited because of the infinate nature of this universe therefore all equations are in question it is my OPINION (which is frankly the only cirtainty here physics as a whole is a veriable) that to know the true density of the black hole you would actualy need to be in the even horizen, as our lack of understanding of gravity and the fact that the blackhole cannot be viewed as our universe because of the lack of any infomation that can be transfered from it. all we can speculate on here is the effect that the black hole has on our universe, and that i will not contest. it is hardly proff of the black hole mass or density however, simply a likely result. and no i cant be assed to currect my really crappy spelling punctuation and general lack of knowlage 1. Look up "scientific theory." This is the same "reason" people use to put down evolution: "OMG ITS JUST A THEORY." 2. Occam's Razor. Why should a black hole act any different than anything else? [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.05.01 14:01:00 - [50] Originally by: Valar Actually its not real life kgs the mass is measured in, its the special future kg where the measurement is relative only to the mind of the person that entered the data at the exact time the value was saved. So using some obscure coughfakecough formula that includes the constant 666 AND you know the exact time and state of mind of the recorder of the data you can't calculate the real mass of the gates. We all knew CCP was evil! [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.


Valar	Posted - 2006.05.01 14:01:00 - [51] Actually its not real life kgs the mass is measured in, its the special future kg where the measurement is relative only to the mind of the person that entered the data at the exact time the value was saved. So using some obscure coughfakecough formula that includes the constant 666 AND you know the exact time and state of mind of the recorder of the data you can't calculate the real mass of the gates. ------ Valar Database admin - Server operations team CCP Games How to write a good bugreport

Bagdh Dearg	Posted - 2006.05.01 14:12:00 - [52] Originally by: Valar Actually its not real life kgs the mass is measured in, its the special future kg where the measurement is relative only to the mind of the person that entered the data at the exact time the value was saved. So using some obscure coughfakecough formula that includes the constant 666 AND you know the exact time and state of mind of the recorder of the data you can't calculate the real mass of the gates. Damn Jovian Metaphysics. There is no Stargate, We're actually jumping to the different systems ourselves. _______________________________________________ An tT nach bhfuil lßidir nf folßir d= bheith glic -He who is not strong must be crafty
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.05.01 14:14:00 - [53] Originally by: Bagdh Dearg Damn Jovian Metaphysics. There is no Stargate, We're actually jumping to the different systems ourselves. Its all wrong, in fact you get kicked in the butt by Chuck Norris himself, which makes you fly into another system at infinite speeds. ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
prsr	Posted - 2006.05.01 14:16:00 - [54] Originally by: sallyr im nether a religious man nor a very adept scientist. For a person that doesn't describe himself as religious you do manage to copy a lot of the baseless talking points they tend to come up with.
Zezman	Posted - 2006.05.01 14:21:00 - [55] Don't try to jump the stargate. That is impossible. Instead, realize the truth. What's that? There is no stargate.
sallyr	Posted - 2006.05.01 14:21:00 - [56] Originally by: Dark Shikari 1. Look up "scientific theory." This is the same "reason" people use to put down evolution: "OMG ITS JUST A THEORY." 2. Occam's Razor. Why should a black hole act any different than anything else? With your kind of logic, we wouldn't be able to do anything--nobody would be allowed to fly planes because for all we knew, they might suddenly stop working because the only thing keeping them up is a "theory." Our definition of density is mass / volume. Period. That is what density means in English. We can know the mass of a black hole to extremely high precision by measuring the paths and speeds of orbiting stars. We can know its volume from the mass, using the Schwarzchild Radius. We are not attempting to find some sort of property about the inside of a black hole--we are deriving the density, which is a value defined as part of the English language. 1 thing we have to make clear is that this has nothing to do with the game, the game does not have any of these rules. its a game! but i still think we are a long way from stating facts other then what effect it has on our universe its density is therefore not a cirtanty as you said density is mass / volume. so where are we getting the volume from? the event horizen? there are so many uncirtantys because of the very nature of the black hole and whats more ooo bacon sandwich . . .screw this post im going on eve lol (\_/) (O.o) (> <)
sallyr	Posted - 2006.05.01 14:24:00 - [57] Originally by: prsr Originally by: sallyr im nether a religious man nor a very adept scientist. For a person that doesn't describe himself as religious you do manage to copy a lot of the baseless talking points they tend to come up with. he he thats my point, what makes them wrong in all honisty im not in disagreement with most of the stuff being said here. its the cirtanty its being said with thats the problem. so much of this stuff is on the cutting edge of what we understand about the universe that is still rather hazzy! that and i just like arguing because i feel its the only thing that i have to do in my sad little life. but im sure thats true for far to many ppl here (\_/) (O.o) (> <)
Zezman	Posted - 2006.05.01 14:37:00 - [58] Originally by: Valar Actually its not real ... relative only to ... the data ... was ... coughfakecough ... can't calculate the real mass of the gates. Is this the closest we will ever come to having a dev of the game admit a mistake in design theory?
prsr	Posted - 2006.05.01 14:49:00 - [59] Originally by: sallyr its the cirtanty its being said with thats the problem. so much of this stuff is on the cutting edge of what we understand about the universe that is still rather hazzy! While some things may be on the cutting edge, a scientific theory is still right until someone can prove it to be wrong or insufficient. As long as nobody does that it makes sense to continue working with it since it is our best and most accurate description of nature at that point.
Sensor Error	Posted - 2006.05.01 15:36:00 - [60] Originally by: prsr Originally by: sallyr its the cirtanty its being said with thats the problem. so much of this stuff is on the cutting edge of what we understand about the universe that is still rather hazzy! While some things may be on the cutting edge, a scientific theory is still right until someone can prove it to be wrong or insufficient. As long as nobody does that it makes sense to continue working with it since it is our best and most accurate description of nature at that point. I'm God. Disprove that RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!! ------------------------------------------ Dev ARQ



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