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Chaos - The Problem

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Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.09.19 06:30:00 - [1] Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 19/09/2003 06:30:50 The problem with Chaos is that the vast majority people are only using it to find out the next uber-setup. The ONLY person I've seen on the Patch Review forum detailing GUI errors was Mr nStuff of RONA Corporation. Check for yourself. It will be about 3 or 4 pages into the forum and you'll notice he posted 7 or 8 different threads of GUI errors and other anomalies. Were his posts taken note of by the developers? I think not. Every person I know using Chaos warned that "Tachyons will rule next patch" which seems to indicate people aren't giving a flying fck about stability or usability. They just want, as Tim Allen so brilliantly put it, MORE POWER, ugh ugh ugh. This makes Chaos a bit of a no-show when it comes to testing patches, don't you think? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!*
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2003.09.19 06:31:00 - [2] Edited by: Jim Raynor on 19/09/2003 06:33:12 i use it to test pvp, im guilty! Honestly I dont think it matters, they never listen anyways. I would think the stuff like local messed up, mouseovers messed up, buddy list messed up, and all the other gui errors would be common knowledge. I mean the BH (bug hunter) people can't report this stuff? They should know as much as we do on GUI errors.. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.09.19 06:32:00 - [3] I don't blame you for finding out about the next best PvP setup, Jim, but it would be nice if Chaos was about more than that. PvP is your trade so you're forgiven. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
illuminati	Posted - 2003.09.19 07:05:00 - [4] Chaos server behaves so poorly I tend to just log on with my mind set on testing something and then drop it asap. Also, the developers DO read our posts Although I dont think many people here understand the cycle for implementing stuff though, it takes time for this cycle. 1 discovery 2 discussion, goalcreation for devs 3 coding, applying 4 chaos testing 5 live This means from the time they read your comments about Chaos behavior to the time the CCP response is visible on Chaos is long. They are then generally stressed about getting the "new" live patch out and with the current choice of patch embrace, it feels like they didnt do **** about it even though they are already working on it. Someone really needs to reorder the priority listings though as I know lots of people, including me, were really annoyed with all the GUI changes. First of all the game looks and feels worse than it did before, plus it now has lots of new bugs. Second, even if it did look better now, there are other problems that need fixing first, like babyroids and the warp/jump exit system for example. Good job fixing the cargocan update bug though, not a day too soon. I understand why it takes time for our comments about game to show but I dont understand why the priority list is done the way it is. Thanks, see you out there.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2003.09.19 07:06:00 - [5] Quote: Chaos server behaves so poorly I tend to just log on with my mind set on testing something and then drop it asap. Also, the developers DO read our posts Although I dont think many people here understand the cycle for implementing stuff though, it takes time for this cycle. 1 discovery 2 discussion, goalcreation for devs 3 coding, applying 4 chaos testing 5 live This means from the time they read your comments about Chaos behavior to the time the CCP response is visible on Chaos is long. They are then generally stressed about getting the "new" live patch out and with the current choice of patch embrace, it feels like they didnt do **** about it even though they are already working on it. Someone really needs to reorder the priority listings though as I know lots of people, including me, were really annoyed with all the GUI changes. First of all the game looks and feels worse than it did before, plus it now has lots of new bugs. Second, even if it did look better now, there are other problems that need fixing first, like babyroids and the warp/jump exit system for example. Good job fixing the cargocan update bug though, not a day too soon. I understand why it takes time for our comments about game to show but I dont understand why the priority list is done the way it is. Thanks, see you out there. Why has CCP managed to evade the "goal" to fix local and buddy list for how many patches now? four? ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
illuminati	Posted - 2003.09.19 07:07:00 - [6] I'd say that further strengthens my views on priority listing, wouldn't you?
Lola	Posted - 2003.09.19 07:11:00 - [7] I submit my bugs via the interface HERE. That's the only way for Devs and bug hunters to actually see the bugs. I also hang out all day in the #eve-chaos channel on IRC. This is where all the polaris bug hunters and some devs hang out. I can report the name of my bug and have it looked at and escalated there. I was crying and screaming that the latest builds broke my prefs but no one cared I guess. Notice how it's a "known issue". Another problem is we aren't told what the hell to test on there. I worked for a software company. I know how QA works and you can't just have a few volunteers poke around and call it tested. We used bug tracking software and version control software. I think CCP does too because i heard the bug hunters talk about it's web interface. It just doesn't SEEM like they are. I personally think they should use extreme programming. ----------------------------------------- Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas.
Lao Tzu	Posted - 2003.09.19 07:18:00 - [8] Last time I was on chaos I just got shot up by a BS pilot, I was in a Blackbird trying to chech out the GUI stuff ;( makes it too much effot when you have to deal with the people 'testing' their loadouts on you.
illuminati	Posted - 2003.09.19 07:22:00 - [9] There are now rules of engagement on Chaos. Non-consentual combat is grounds for banning. For this particular reason, so people cant mess with your testing. I tested combat alot there but I did it with other fighters, report the person doing it.
Lola	Posted - 2003.09.19 07:23:00 - [10] Quote: Last time I was on chaos I just got shot up by a BS pilot, I was in a Blackbird trying to chech out the GUI stuff ;( makes it too much effot when you have to deal with the people 'testing' their loadouts on you. All PvP on chaos is supposed to be consensual. If someone was shooting you without permission a GM or BH on there will move that person across the galaxy or possibly ban them from chaos. ----------------------------------------- Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas.
NeoMorph	Posted - 2003.09.19 08:30:00 - [11] lol... the other day I logged into Chaos to do some testing and was outside the station... I finally see my ship being pounded by Technolisa... Seems people dont take the time to read the rules ------------------------------------------- <Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode <Stavros> was a honda gold wing <Ak-Gara> hah <Stavros>
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2003.09.19 08:31:00 - [12] i beat technolisas apoc in a duel to the death!! ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Lola	Posted - 2003.09.19 08:38:00 - [13] Quote: i beat technolisas apoc in a duel to the death!! I think Techlisa was the name of my rogue merc in Diablo 2. ----------------------------------------- Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas.
Luc Boye	Posted - 2003.09.19 08:42:00 - [14] Edited by: Luc Boye on 19/09/2003 08:47:14 Commercial software development companies tend to hire professional testers. Where I live anyway. So that leaves Chaos for... err... uber setup testing =) EDIT: 1.) Oh btw, paying 13$/month for the priviledge of testing software is not ... ethical? (I wanted to say NO F**KING WAY IN HELL or similar but I thought I'd be polite). 2.) I code for living, developers don't test (urk, the word) other people's code! -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2003.09.19 08:46:00 - [15] chaos is nice but really, this is a game we all pay for we really shouldnt have to devote time to finding bugs all the time. i don't mind helping eve become a better game so i usually log onto chaos now and then to give some suggestions (usually about combat and modules) but that's about it. 99% of the time, i just wanna play the game. not play bug hunter in it. i'm sure most people feel the same. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
illuminati	Posted - 2003.09.19 09:03:00 - [16] Guess this game is a victim of too low start capital really? I mean it was released 4 months too early. If they had more money to spend initially, it would have gotten better first reviews and hype, thus getting a bigger playerbase than 5000 people online mostly. I mean online games breathe hype and crave reviews. But this was a first game, I mean the feedback is faster about issues now, plus they are not patching on fridays anymore.
Athule Snanm	Posted - 2003.09.19 09:37:00 - [17] It would be nice if there were more threads like the ones on turret and drone changes etc but instead on things like the GUI, etc. I've not been to Chaos yet as my rather pathetic brain finds it difficult to sort out what to download and do with the logging server, but I'd be more tempted if there were clearer goals and detailed feedback forms. I've also taken part in alpha/beta testing a different game before and it was much, much more structured as well as having detailed closed and private discussions between a small and restricted group of players (actually mostly add-on writers/artists, of which I was one) and the game designer. Not everything we wanted was implemented and not everything that was bugged got fixed, but overall the whole thing worked really well - especially for the next version after that. I guess it was like the CSM on steroids followed by more traditional beta testing later. _______________________________ Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene!
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.09.19 10:27:00 - [18] lol i got hidden bases to do that stuff... __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
SavX	Posted - 2003.09.19 10:44:00 - [19] The test server is there to test stuff, so don't complain about people testing what they want to test. And I don't think CCP listen to what players have to say, because of the way the patch turned out. Don't Kill The Corp.. Kill the Suppliers.
illuminati	Posted - 2003.09.19 11:05:00 - [20] Edited by: illuminati on 19/09/2003 11:19:41 I'll delete this, toooo much off topic :)
Daan	Posted - 2003.09.19 12:53:00 - [21] Quote: The test server is there to test stuff, so don't complain about people testing what they want to test. And I don't think CCP listen to what players have to say, because of the way the patch turned out. they only listen to the whining of carebears
Erty	Posted - 2003.09.19 12:55:00 - [22] Quote: Guess this game is a victim of too low start capital really? I mean it was released 4 months too early. If they had more money to spend initially, it would have gotten better first reviews and hype, thus getting a bigger playerbase than 5000 people online mostly. I mean online games breathe hype and crave reviews. But this was a first game, I mean the feedback is faster about issues now, plus they are not patching on fridays anymore. I really don't think it would get better reviews... I mean 87%, 88%, 90%, 9/10, 8/10 and so on is what I see. I can't see why anyone would give EVE 94% or something if it had less bugs..hmm. So what do you think they should do to solve the problem? I really can't see any way to do that without much more money :/ This is my signature.
illuminati	Posted - 2003.09.19 13:21:00 - [23] Erty, this game is getting close to 75% average on reviews and I think most will agree on that. Of course the problem of initial capital cant be solved now but naturally getting code priority straight will help in the present downhill state. I mean, changing interphase fonts and graphics should not override anything in priority. Yet it just did, again.
Erty	Posted - 2003.09.19 14:01:00 - [24] Do you live in America? Because there the reviews are very negative :) I think that the european reviewers managed to look past the bugs, and therefore the score wouldn't be higher anyway :) The GUI change wasn't needed, but maybe the GUI guy didn't have anything to do? :) This is my signature.

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