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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.05.03 15:44:00 -
[31]
Edited by: smallgreenblur on 03/05/2006 15:44:22
 Originally by: Lord WarATron
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 03/05/2006 08:20:35
Originally by: smallgreenblur
Not to poke holes in this, but why can't your mate just send the cash just after the ticket before the winning ticket is sold?
sgb
I understand your concearn, but how would you time such an event? Since tickets are allocated in order bought, which can be verified by reading this thread.
The objective of Fraudproof(tm) is to make these scams impossible, since the ticket order is decided by the eve public and not by me or anyone else. The winning tickets lists are available but are encrypted, which further proves that this is not a sham auction. If a genuine eve player was to buy multiple tickets, then that would remove any chance of some calculated timing. If a eve dev is willing to pick numbers, then I would go with that, but until a genuine lottery system is built in eve, this is the most secure lottery you can get.
If the issue is of trust, check the link in my sig. Ask Hippoking if the information made him at least a bil or not. This is free advice available to the eve public to make them rich, and certainly is not something a scammer does. Also ask about my rep in Gyerzen, or speak to any of my ex-ceo's. I actually take the time helping newbies train for lvl4 missions as well as teach them to defend themselves from pirates in Gyerzen. Also, in my previous corp, I ran many corp events for which I never expected anything back and have given out hundreds of millions in prizes. Which is part of the reason why my alt, Dr CapitalShip, became an invited Director of a medium sized corp.
If you genuinely beleive this is a scam, then I suggest you invest your money in other lotterys, which have not taken the time to produce something like this.
Right, let me make myself clear. It appears to me that you are running an auction where you already know which ticket will win, you have encrypted this twice and you will give out that list to all contenders, so they know that there is no possibility of merely pretending that the winner is your mate. Tickets are sold in order they are received.
However, i am asking why the following scenario is not possible:
Ticket number x is the winning ticket. You see from your mails that ticket number x-1 has been sold. Your mate send an eve mail straight away, claiming ticket x.
This does not look fraudproof to me, as you have claimed. The issue of trust is another matter, that people are free to decide for themselves, personally i generally trust more than not.
The only 'fraudproof' idea i have seen so far is the idea of using external lottery numbers in the small lottery currently being run.
Anyway, free bump at the end of the day, I'll be interested to see you reply on the fraudproof bit.
sgb
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.05.03 15:56:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Chaos' mistress
Might as well give it a try... isks sent :)
Thank you. I have updated the list
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.05.03 16:03:00 -
[33]
Originally by: smallgreenblur
Right, let me make myself clear. It appears to me that you are running an auction where you already know which ticket will win, you have encrypted this twice and you will give out that list to all contenders, so they know that there is no possibility of merely pretending that the winner is your mate. Tickets are sold in order they are received.
However, i am asking why the following scenario is not possible:
Ticket number x is the winning ticket. You see from your mails that ticket number x-1 has been sold. Your mate send an eve mail straight away, claiming ticket x.
This does not look fraudproof to me, as you have claimed. The issue of trust is another matter, that people are free to decide for themselves, personally i generally trust more than not.
The only 'fraudproof' idea i have seen so far is the idea of using external lottery numbers in the small lottery currently being run.
Anyway, free bump at the end of the day, I'll be interested to see you reply on the fraudproof bit.
sgb
I see the point you are making. If I were to change the system, to one baised on the last 2 digits of the new york lottery system (100 uniques), thus proving that this lottery is 100% not a scam, can I have your word that you will buy a ticket? :)
No seriously, since no winners have been announced, I can change the system to pick numbers if you can find a better one. I have already said that I have no intention to scam, unlike many other obviously unaccountable scamming lottery's out there.
This Brings 3 Options
1. Carry on as normal
2. Change to last 2 didgets of NY lottery
3. Refund everyone and start again.
Whichever option the Eve public wants, I will do.
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.05.03 16:21:00 -
[34]
I will be away for approx the next 30 hours. I will update friday morning. Please note that I am planning on changing the number system to reflect a real life number system, any objections let me know.
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Klurig
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Posted - 2006.05.03 16:36:00 -
[35]
Making the winning tickets get decided from that NY lottery sounds like a good idea. go ahead with my approval (even tho I only own 1 ticket)
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.05.03 17:18:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 03/05/2006 17:17:58
Ok then, its settled. I will change this lottery to be baised on the last 2 digits of the NY system. That way nobody can accuse this of being a scam.
Anyone not happy with this, eve-mail me for a refund
I will edit top post when I come back on Friday Morning, for now, 30 hours of Traveling awaits.
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Heikki
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Posted - 2006.05.03 18:05:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
I will change this lottery to be
Thank you for striving for fair system; I'll get 10 tickets once I get back to my (home) computer in a day or two.
The NY lottery is not easists for this purpose (like have to agree on which date's result to use, in which order to use the numbers in that page, how to get rid of duplicates, check whether it uses numbers from 00 to 99, or just from 01 to 99 etc). But as long as details are settled before the numbers are drawn (even if only by few hours), it shouldn't matter.
Easiest would be if someone found online number generator which a) has lot of configurable parameters (like disallow dupes) b) has configurable seed (instead if giving real random numbers). With such thing a lottery author would just tell which parameters he will use (9 prizes, order, no duplicates), and which seed he'll use (round XX result of NY's lottery) -> everyone could verify it was fair.
So, assuming the author's reputation is worth of at least 1B, anyone spot further chances for scamming?
-Lasse
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Foo Barr
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Posted - 2006.05.03 19:15:00 -
[38]
Neither patentable nor foolproof/faudproof as others have indicated in your original incarnation.
Utilizing some publicly chosen numeric value such as a lottery value is better, but the number one gets is dictated by when you process their entry. The flaw being, what if the 2 digits from the lottery is 97 and you do not sell 97 tickets? You should address that possibility.
I've been amazed that anyone plays these so-called lotteries in this game, but gambling is popular eve-n in a virtual world I suppose. The biggest 'hole' seems to be the reliance on the lottery sponsor to distribute the 'prizes'. The aforementioned flaws in the selection are the other, but those are easily addressed.
Suggestions for those that do wish to create and participate in these.
1) The 'winning number' can be something like the last 3 digits for the close of the DOW Jones Industrial for a specified date. That is something guaranteed to be random and easily searchable to all.
2) Escrow the prizes. Since Eve does not have such a method (though this would be a good addition for CCP to consider), perhaps there are some well known honest players in this game that would act as escrow agents? They acknowledge they are in receipt of the prizes BEFORE it starts. All participants enter their 'guess' in the forum thread, sending same, along with their fees to the Escrow Agent. Who acknowledge same in the thread. Each number can be selected but once. First post in the thread gets selected number. Should the last 3 of the DOW not match any selection, then you do an over/under. All those that had a number ABOVE (or BELOW) are eliminated (specified when lottery started). The Winners are then the next 'x' closest to the number.
You can do a number of varieties of this, but simpler is better. The selection (using DOW) is easy, a known and respected Escrow Agent is perhaps a bit more difficult, but I would imagine there are a few well known players that could be convinced to do this for an admin fee.
I personally am not interested in operating or participating in these, just offering some suggestions for those that do.
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.05.04 21:52:00 -
[39]
I have now changed the lottery system to reflect real life numbers. Please check the first post in this thread.
Additionally, I have refunded anyone who wanted there money back and have given the numbers to the following people.
01 Klurig
02 Kalaan Oratay
03 xKillaH
04 MadMaxHellfire
05 Fringin
06 Chaos' mistress
If you guys want to change your numbers, be my guest.
Good luck, and I hope this proves to the eve public this lottery is now genuinly Fraudproof.
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.05.05 07:58:00 -
[40]
Bump for today. Remember, I have changed the number picking system to reflet real life numbers. Check out the first post in this thread for more info.
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Heikki
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Posted - 2006.05.05 08:25:00 -
[41]
ISK sent for numbers 7-16 (10x10M).
-Lasse
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.05.05 08:39:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Heikki
ISK sent for numbers 7-16 (10x10M).
-Lasse
Thank you. I have updated the list. Just for fun, if we did it the old way, you would have won first prize.
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.05.05 14:00:00 -
[43]
Quite a few tickets left. Pick them up while they are hot.
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Klurig
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Posted - 2006.05.05 15:19:00 -
[44]
When is the drawing?
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MadMaxHellfire
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Posted - 2006.05.05 15:21:00 -
[45]
thanks for the new number ;) (i know i'm not going to win anything, but at least i tried :P and i don't need money anymore, so it's just for fun)
and free bump
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.05.05 15:56:00 -
[46]
I expect the drawing to start within a week at most.
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Klurig
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Posted - 2006.05.05 15:59:00 -
[47]
sweet
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.05.05 16:37:00 -
[48]
Depending on the uptake of tickets, I will either run the lottery or refund everyone by this time next week
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.05.05 22:04:00 -
[49]
bump
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.05.06 21:20:00 -
[50]
Bump
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.05.07 21:28:00 -
[51]
Bump
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.05.08 08:03:00 -
[52]
I dont get it. Ever since I changed the number picking system to one which is controled by real life, the number of tickets has went down rather than up! It appears people want a dubious lottery run by an alt and numbers being not visable, rather than one like this where the main posts and use's real life numbers.
If this continues I will be refunding everyone and calling it a day. So buy tickets now :)
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.05.08 11:10:00 -
[53]
bump
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Russell Martin
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Posted - 2006.05.08 20:10:00 -
[54]
I'll be sending ISK within 2 hours (At work).
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.05.09 08:08:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Russell Martin
I'll be sending ISK within 2 hours (At work).
No Problem. I will give you number 3. If you want to change your number, just ask :)
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.05.09 13:44:00 -
[56]
Bump
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Katrina Coreli
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Posted - 2006.05.09 19:01:00 -
[57]
Free bump, i appreciate the effort youve put into this.
Also the reason that you arnt getting many more ticket sales could be that most of the people who are likely to give it a go are alrdy down on the list
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2006.05.10 09:11:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
I dont get it. Ever since I changed the number picking system to one which is controled by real life, the number of tickets has went down rather than up! It appears people want a dubious lottery run by an alt and numbers being not visable, rather than one like this where the main posts and use's real life numbers.
If this continues I will be refunding everyone and calling it a day. So buy tickets now :)
That is probably because it seems like people are more likely to spend isk at the end of the weeks than at the beginning. I don't know if that's actually the case, but to me it seems like it.
btw, if you don't want to wait for a valid number in case a number that's too high would be picked, you could simply do a <lottery number> MOD <number of tickets> to determine a winning number.
Explanation :
1. Divide the lottery number with the amount of tickets.
2. If the result is a full integer (no decimals), the ticket with the highest number wins
3. If the result has decimals :
3.1 Remove the decimal points, and multiply the result with the amount of tickets
3.2 Substract the number you get from the lottery ticket number
3.3 The result is the number of the winning ticket
Example :
54 tickets sold
Winning ticket on whatever lottery you use is 97825
97825/54=1811.574... (decimals found, keep going)
1811*54=97794
97825-97794=31
Ticket #31 would win in this case.
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Heikki
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Posted - 2006.05.11 08:11:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
I dont get it...down rather than up!
Suppose lotteries and sense don't go together that well. Or perhaps it's about marketting (sexy prizes, ad campaign, fake example buyers) that lures the masses. For example, BIG's lottery with expected return ratio over 1 hasn't been that popular lately.
And, with those dubious alt lotteries, can you never be sure how many tickets have been sold? Have you checked all buyers in them really were published, existing and non-altish?
Originally by: Scorpyn
<lottery number> MOD <number of tickets> to determine a winning number.
That would work reasonably too (though with slight bias). But in the end, it really doesn't matter exatcly which methods author uses, as long as public can agree it is reasonably tamper-free.
-Lasse
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.05.12 11:24:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 12/05/2006 11:33:49
I will run this lottery for the next day or so, and unless there is a surge in ticket sales, I will call it a day and refund everyone.
With that said, it appears that the eve public do not want to support a low margin, non-alt, non-tamperproof result system, where the assets of the organiser is far greater than the prizes (I.E No Incentive to take the money and run).
Perhaps the marketing could be better, perhaps people hate my corp/Alliance, but as Macro Media said in another thread, people are like lemmings, and unless organisers use fake alts to buy tickets, people are not that attracted. If you want to catcha big fish, use an army of small fishies :)
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