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Lidia Caderu
Harbingers of Chaos Inc The East India Co.
27
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Posted - 2014.04.02 07:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
How about to add some small positive bonus to Warp stabilizers? For example, as a result of stabilization you recive increased warp speed : +1 AU +15% warp speed or: reduced cap for warp activation + reduced cap used on MWD. |
Seliah
0mega.
115
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Posted - 2014.04.02 09:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Do you have any sort of justification for adding a bonus to WCS's ? Like, why the hell would you want to do that ? |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
331
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Posted - 2014.04.02 09:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
There are already other mods, skills, and implants to affect these stats I think? They would become redundant if all you needed was WCS to cover them. |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
479
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Posted - 2014.04.02 09:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lidia Caderu wrote:How about to add some small positive bonus to Warp stabilizers? For example, as a result of stabilization you recive increased warp speed : +1 AU +15% warp speed or: reduced cap for warp activation + reduced cap used on MWD.
So getting out from under scram isn't enough for you?
Not supported. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
Yakima DWB
Baited Sting Interstellar ConVicts
7
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Posted - 2014.04.02 09:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'd much prefer if they gave your suggested bonus in place of how they currently work. |
Jean deVallette
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.04.02 10:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
No, and given the staggering amount of sales since the probing changes, finding a 4x stabbed magnate doing lowsec data sites ... its a PITA.
Yes - 2x faction scrams will work, but lets add to their penalties, and make them also lower astrometric/ analyser and salvager properties significantly.
Stop people using them everywhere. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
331
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Posted - 2014.04.02 10:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yakima DWB wrote:I'd much prefer if they gave your suggested bonus in place of how they currently work.
But WCS work fine as they are...if people want faster time-to-warp fit the inertia mods, faster warp speeds need the implants for it, WCS give the unarmed hauler the means to escape an attacker, but the attacker can always bring more friends whilst the hauler has limited WCS. Seems pretty balanced right now |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
331
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Posted - 2014.04.02 10:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jean deVallette wrote:No, and given the staggering amount of sales since the probing changes, finding a 4x stabbed magnate doing lowsec data sites ... its a PITA.
Yes - 2x faction scrams will work, but lets add to their penalties, and make them also lower astrometric/ analyser and salvager properties significantly.
Stop people using them everywhere.
Why add to the penalties? You just stated the simple counter to a WCS ship, and with 4 WCS there's no way they will lock you to do anything else other than melt... |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
348
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Posted - 2014.04.02 10:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jean deVallette wrote:No, and given the staggering amount of sales since the probing changes, finding a 4x stabbed magnate doing lowsec data sites ... its a PITA.
Yes - 2x faction scrams will work, but lets add to their penalties, and make them also lower astrometric/ analyser and salvager properties significantly.
Stop people using them everywhere.
So? Bring more scrams. No Magnate escapes my scram boat when I get hold of it. You are just unprepared for the cowardliness of other players and thus don't deserve to get the prey. Moreover, giving stabs even more negative effects will surely help to keep people going into Low sec ... wait. I don't care about stabs, because they are useless if you are properly prepared.
Change suggestion of OP and in quote not supported. |
Lidia Caderu
Harbingers of Chaos Inc The East India Co.
27
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Posted - 2014.04.02 11:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Seliah wrote:Do you have any sort of justification for adding a bonus to WCS's ? Like, why the hell would you want to do that ? Of cource. WCS have big negative bonus on targeting. So it would be nice to at least somehow to compensate it. Plus having increased warp speed would be nice for traveling. So overall it would be very nice for traveling! |
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Lidia Caderu
Harbingers of Chaos Inc The East India Co.
27
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Posted - 2014.04.02 11:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jean deVallette wrote:No, and given the staggering amount of sales since the probing changes, finding a 4x stabbed magnate doing lowsec data sites ... its a PITA.
So what? If you will kill people more easily they will not enter lows ot null. Then you'll start complaining that hi-sec is too secure and you cant kill people there more easily there. Try bumping for example.
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
488
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Posted - 2014.04.02 12:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jean deVallette wrote:No, and given the staggering amount of sales since the probing changes, finding a 4x stabbed magnate doing lowsec data sites ... its a PITA.
Yes - 2x faction scrams will work, but lets add to their penalties, and make them also lower astrometric/ analyser and salvager properties significantly.
Stop people using them everywhere.
Odd, if you wanted such easily killed prey served up to you just go run some level 2 missions.... or do NPCs shoot back too much and/or not cry enough when killed?
Op... You are not wrong. Stabs dont need the penalties they have except the predators dont like it when you can get away. Simply driving you off isnt enough, they must get their kill, no matter how outmatched you were. Buffing them for non-combat effects, especially travel stats would be good. |
Seliah
0mega.
117
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Posted - 2014.04.02 12:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lidia Caderu wrote:Seliah wrote:Do you have any sort of justification for adding a bonus to WCS's ? Like, why the hell would you want to do that ? Of cource. WCS have big negative bonus on targeting. So it would be nice to at least somehow to compensate it. Plus having increased warp speed would be nice for traveling. So overall it would be very nice for traveling!
Well, the negative bonus (which is usually referred to as a malus btw) is here for a good reason, so there's nothing to compensate. The targeting malus is already here to compensate the huge bonus the WCS already gives.
And as people stated before, if you want travelling speed, fit modules that are designed for it, not a WCS. |
WouldYouEver HaveSexWith aGoat
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
29
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Posted - 2014.04.02 12:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
WCS use on exploration frigates does need a bit of a nerf, I agree with who said that.
However I disagree with those saying these suggested bonuses in the OP would make WCS overpowered. It would in fact become a viable way to increase warp speed on any given ship, without sacrificing rig or implants slots. You sacrifice lock time and range by fitting them thus there is a clear trade-off.
For game balance sake I think it's important that warp speed can be adjusted through the use of a high/med/low slot. Nearly all other factors can be adjusted as such, so this falls in line with that mentality.
As of now WCS is used solely to escape. It would be nice to see it have other positive affects in relation to one's warp drive.
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
348
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Posted - 2014.04.02 12:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
And after that WCS are still only used to escape and in case of ceptors are even more powerful. No. |
stoicfaux
4355
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Posted - 2014.04.02 12:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lidia Caderu wrote:How about to add some small positive bonus to Warp stabilizers? For example, as a result of stabilization you recive increased warp speed : +1 AU +15% warp speed
+1 It would make for a nice traveling fit. I would keep it as a % warp speed bonus rather than a flat +1 AU.
Quote:or: reduced cap for warp activation + reduced cap used on MWD. Meh, not so much.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
488
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Posted - 2014.04.02 12:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Seliah wrote:Lidia Caderu wrote:Seliah wrote:Do you have any sort of justification for adding a bonus to WCS's ? Like, why the hell would you want to do that ? Of cource. WCS have big negative bonus on targeting. So it would be nice to at least somehow to compensate it. Plus having increased warp speed would be nice for traveling. So overall it would be very nice for traveling! Well, the negative bonus (which is usually referred to as a malus btw) is here for a good reason, so there's nothing to compensate. The targeting malus is already here to compensate the huge bonus the WCS already gives. And as people stated before, if you want travelling speed, fit modules that are designed for it, not a WCS.
They didnt always have the penalties. They were added to discourage thier use on PvP fit ships. They honestly dont need the penalty... You sacrifice Damage, Tank, or both fitting them as it is.
Making them beneficial for non-combat purposes would not be out of line. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
331
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
WouldYouEver HaveSexWith aGoat wrote:
As of now WCS is used solely to escape. It would be nice to see it have other positive affects in relation to one's warp drive.
And scram is used solely to capture, this is a mod and its counter working as intended I would say. Use implants to improve warp speed which as you say means using (not sacrificing) an implant slot for this purpose. Choices have to be made when fitting your ship and your clone and this is game balance in action to my mind. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1255
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Stabs dont need the penalties they have except the predators dont like it when you can get away.
well lets consider a shield fit cane here...it has a lot of lows to play with. if WCS didnt have their penalties u wouldnt be sacrificing much by swapping out that second tracking enhancer, or third gyro for a wcs. its not about getting away for good, its about being able to warp out of the fight and then warp back in again at range.
tier 3 BC's could abuse this to hell.
they were justly nerfed such that anything using it doesnt just suffer from a missing damage mod, it cripples a PvP viable fit. this way u can still use WCS for travelling, but not in fights. which makes complete sense.
i dnt think im keen on the WCS giving extra warp speed. there are other means to get that benefit. but at the same time, its not overpowered or game breaking. i cant imagine it changing the dynamics of a chase that much, but can provide a QOL improvement for traveling. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
489
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Posted - 2014.04.02 15:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
It isnt abuse to use the benefit the module is meant for.
This goes back to my constantly harping about the failure of the game to give real goals in pvp other than ship kills and tears. If it had no drawbacks you could still catch a target with faction mods, multiple ships, dual scram, or heavy interdictors... But without a reason to stay and fight hard tackle is required for every fight and eve pvp will always be about victimizing someone rather than fighting them over something else. |
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Master Sergeant MacRobert
Space-Brewery-Association 24eme Legion Etrangere
45
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Posted - 2014.04.02 18:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mike Voidstar +1 mate.
However, I think Warp Core Stabiliser modules could do with a re-work.
My current take on a new version:
Active module: Warp Core Stabilser I
Passive effect: When fitted, the module reduces the ships GÇ£Max Number of TargetsGÇ¥ to zero.
Activation:10 Duration: 60 seconds (may need to be longer or may need to be shorter)
Skill Requirement: As currently set
Powergrid: As current CPU: As current
Active Effect: Adds +1 to warp core at end of each cycle (counter resets after entering warp).
New Skill
Warp Core Stabilisation: 10% bonus to the effect of Warp Core Stabilisation Accelerators per level Rank 1 Skill section: Engineering so Primary & Secondary Attributes - Intelligence / Memory
New Module
Warp Core Stabilisation Accelerator IFitting: Medium SlotRequired Skill: Warp Core Stablisation (at level 1)
Passive Effect: Reduces (quicker) the duration of Warp Core Stabilisers by 30% (give or take balancing)
Power Grid: TBC CPU: TBCStacking penalty applies, same as other modules
Module is affected by the new skill listed above, which is also a requirement of fitting.
There should be zero combat application when you have chosen a GÇ£Get out of jail free cardGÇ¥. So by fitting this module you are unable to lock any targets.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
331
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:
There should be zero combat application when you have chosen a GÇ£Get out of jail free cardGÇ¥. So by fitting this module you are unable to lock any targets.
They aren't 'Get out of jail free', they are 'Get out of jail if you brought more WCS than the enemy brought Scram and don't even think you can target something' cards...
If someone catches you and are prepared for your level of WCS you are dead. That's pretty well balanced already I think :) |
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Space-Brewery-Association 24eme Legion Etrangere
45
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Posted - 2014.04.02 18:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:
There should be zero combat application when you have chosen a GÇ£Get out of jail free cardGÇ¥. So by fitting this module you are unable to lock any targets.
They aren't 'Get out of jail free', they are 'Get out of jail if you brought more WCS than the enemy brought Scram and don't even think you can target something' cards... If someone catches you and are prepared for your level of WCS you are dead. That's pretty well balanced already I think :)
Not with my version. it has a thoeretical infinite if you can tank long enough. |
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Space-Brewery-Association 24eme Legion Etrangere
45
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Posted - 2014.04.02 18:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:Mike Voidstar +1 mate.
However, I think Warp Core Stabiliser modules could do with a re-work.
My current take on a new version:
Active module: Warp Core Stabilser I
Passive effect: When fitted, the module reduces the ships GÇ£Max Number of TargetsGÇ¥ to zero.
Activation:10 Duration: 60 seconds (may need to be longer or may need to be shorter)
Skill Requirement: As currently set
Powergrid: As current CPU: As current
Active Effect: Adds +1 to warp core at end of each cycle (counter resets after entering warp).
New Skill
Warp Core Stabilisation: 10% bonus to the effect of Warp Core Stabilisation Accelerators per level Rank 1 Skill section: Engineering so Primary & Secondary Attributes - Intelligence / Memory
New Module
Warp Core Stabilisation Accelerator IFitting: Medium SlotRequired Skill: Warp Core Stablisation (at level 1)
Passive Effect: Reduces (quicker) the duration of Warp Core Stabilisers by 30% (give or take balancing)
Power Grid: TBC CPU: TBCStacking penalty applies, same as other modules
Module is affected by the new skill listed above, which is also a requirement of fitting.
There should be zero combat application when you have chosen a GÇ£Get out of jail free cardGÇ¥. So by fitting this module you are unable to lock any targets.
If something along these lines was applied to Tranquility, then I would also look for a modification to take place to mobile warp disruption bubbles.
Along the lines of:
Mobile Warp Disruptor (all sizes)GÇô tech 1: Warp Disruption value 3 Mobile warp Disruptor (all sizes) GÇô Tech 2: Warp Disruption value 5
Interdictor Warp Disuption Probe GÇô Warp Disruption value 5 Navy Interdictor Warp Disruption Probe GÇô Warp Disruption value 10
Heavy Interdictor Disruptoin GÇô warp disruption remains infinite
If a person chooses to haul something through null sec, he should have a chance (if fitted with wcs) to get out of a bubble camp (and the campers should have a chance to kill the target if they have setup correctly with enough dps to kill before escape).
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1258
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:It isnt abuse to use the benefit the module is meant for.
This goes back to my constantly harping about the failure of the game to give real goals in pvp other than ship kills and tears. If it had no drawbacks you could still catch a target with faction mods, multiple ships, dual scram, or heavy interdictors... But without a reason to stay and fight hard tackle is required for every fight and eve pvp will always be about victimizing someone rather than fighting them over something else.
CCP disagreed and rightly nerfed them because ppl were warping out and back in at range. it can still be used in the way it was meant for, and thats not being scarmmed easily, and this rightly gimps a combat fit in the same way an armour tank gimps ur speed. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
491
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
There was an era when development heavily favored pirate playstyles and victimizing for fun. Its not quite over yet, but there have been strides made. The WCS nerfs were put in at an upswing in this attitude.
I am not calling for a removal of the penalty at all, I am just stating they dont need it for balance. Warping out and in at range is as sandbox as anything else, and still came with a price in opportunity cost of a low slot. If anything this nerf harmed the sandbox.
The suggestion of the op, to make the WCS more valuable for travel in a way that does not currently exist on a module is not a bad idea, and harms nothing in its combat application. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1258
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote: Its not quite over yet, but there have been strides made.
or setbacks and compromises EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
491
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote: Its not quite over yet, but there have been strides made. or setbacks and compromises
True, but I tend to cling to the dream of the sandbox where all playstyles are welcome and the game is what you make of it. |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
110
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Posted - 2014.04.02 22:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
OP, if people were using WCS only as a traveling mod from point A to point B then why not, but they are not only used for travel. |
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