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Mr McNoos	Posted - 2006.05.06 13:39:00 - [1] Greetings all and plz let me know if this topic belongs somewhere else. I had the fun expirience to be blown out of my ship carrying 60k zyd whila afk flying in Jita(0.9). My problem with this is not that I got blown up or lost 250+ mill worth of stuff, but rather that pirates are free to pick theyr targets depending on if they are worth it. CARGO SCANNING and SHIP SCANNING are legal operations and I fail to see the logic behind that. I understand that concord scans our hull, they are upholding the law in the galaxy and trying to stop drug/slave/etc trafficing. In RL police can, with proper methods search ppls homes, vehicles and persons but criminals can not. A mugger is not allowed to look into your wallet/purse before he decides to rob you, just so he can estimate if the consiquenses are worth it. I have seen alot of pirates scan haulers when they land 15km from a gate in high sec, lock, scan tha cargo and then manage to kill the person before theyr own ship blows up. I don¦t mind them killing random haulers to try and make a living. I DO mind that they are not random haulers, but tactically chosen targets wich are worth loosing a ship over. Concord should not allow such an activity to go un under theyr nose. If this is supposed to be legal, why can¦t I look into another guys hangar in station? I need to have certain access within my corp and only then can I look into my own corp m8 hangar. I will propably add more as I think of it, but plz comment on this and I truly hope if enough ppl show this support something will be done to make this illegal. I say again, it¦s not the fact that I can be killed anywhere with my pants down, but the fact that anyone can look into my ship to see my pants down. thank you for your time and I hope my ranting makes some sence Mr McNoos
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2006.05.06 13:42:00 - [2] Makes sense, yes, but it won't change. I wonder how long before the first "it's your own fault for not taking precautions" poster shows up without bothering to read your actual complaint. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Brutor Shaun	Posted - 2006.05.06 13:48:00 - [3] If you carry your loot in secure containers, does it still show on scans, or do just the containers show? And you can carry more.
Lady Sabriel	Posted - 2006.05.06 13:49:00 - [4] Quote: In RL police can, with proper methods search ppls homes, vehicles and persons but criminals can not. A mugger is not allowed to look into your wallet/purse before he decides to rob you, just so he can estimate if the consiquenses are worth it. Criminals frequently check out houses to see if there is anything worth stealing. They case the houses for days before hand. Your mugger reference is also flawed. Muggers normally hang around cash machines or take a look at your wallet/purse when you buy things in shops or in pub for the exact reason of estimating if the consiquenses are worth it.
Lady Sabriel	Posted - 2006.05.06 13:50:00 - [5] Quote: If you carry your loot in secure containers, does it still show on scans, or do just the containers show? And you can carry more. they still show up. Although I disagree with what the op is saying I do think it's wrong scanners can see inside secure cans.
Hephaesteus	Posted - 2006.05.06 13:51:00 - [6] Makes a lot of sense to me scanning should be considered a hostile act. That said you went afk hauling through Jita with that much zyd in your hold. I bet the rat thought it was his birthday ----------------------------------------------- Knowing all, when all is unknown.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.06 14:12:00 - [7] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 06/05/2006 14:12:21 You guys should learn that Jita is dangerous. I rarely see any other system mentioned when it comes to suicide gankings. Dont know why, since people will probably be afk even more in a system that is not known for its suicide gankings. If i was into that sort of thing, i would pick another system which is on the way to/from Jita. --- The Eve Wiki Project
Ather Ialeas	Posted - 2006.05.06 14:40:00 - [8] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 06/05/2006 14:12:21 You guys should learn that Jita is dangerous. I rarely see any other system mentioned when it comes to suicide gankings. Dont know why, since people will probably be afk even more in a system that is not known for its suicide gankings. QFT. Jita is like the middle east market place of EVE (although it's actually kinda up in EVE universe but I assume you'll understand what I mean) and personally I try to avoid that. Plus I'd never fly anything anywhere AFK it it was worth more than say 150M and couldn't sustain some damage which I could repair later on.
Eternal Fury	Posted - 2006.05.06 15:21:00 - [9] uhm.. fly a freighter? I know this sounds out of reach for a lot of people, but if you are going to be hauling expensive cargo, do it one of two ways. Battlships, or Freighters. All the other cargo haulers are just too think skined. I pull out the BS for a tiny tiny BPO. Ifyou can afford 250 Mill worth of Stuff, save up for a few weeks and buy a freighter. I doubt they'll be able to blow you up then. At least that way they won't get anything but will loose their ship. Small PvE/PvP Corp looking for Members. 2-10Mill SP. Send me a EvE Mail.
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2006.05.06 16:20:00 - [10] Originally by: Jim McGregor You guys should learn that Jita is dangerous. Well, I asked how long it would be before someone completely ignored the point of the thread and started talking about how you should take precautions. Turned out to be exactly half an hour. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.05.06 16:20:00 - [11] Originally by: Brutor Shaun If you carry your loot in secure containers, does it still show on scans, or do just the containers show? And you can carry more. Only plastic wrap blocks scans.
Tasuric Orka	Posted - 2006.05.06 16:27:00 - [12] Scanning should be a hostile act yes, like if someone runs up to you in the street, opens your bag and takes a peek. At least give us a module that can block scans.. ________________________________________________ I survived Veto and all i got was this lame sig.
Mr McNoos	Posted - 2006.05.06 16:47:00 - [13] Originally by: Lady Sabriel Criminals frequently check out houses to see if there is anything worth stealing. They case the houses for days before hand. Your mugger reference is also flawed. Muggers normally hang around cash machines or take a look at your wallet/purse when you buy things in shops or in pub for the exact reason of estimating if the consiquenses are worth it. yes muggers watch for behaviour but under normal circumstances they can¦t be sure what they are getting, just hope you hit the jackpot in the slot machine you just left. coming from a station in Jita doesn¦t mean I have a cargo full of gold. I like the idea of a mod to prevent scans and can be an idea to explore further. The fact that I was afk changes absolutely nothing. I got locked, he scanned me and according to my log, got flagged, 2 secs latger first torp hits me and 15-20 secs later I get a new log, wich means I am in my pod. now you tell me, what ship, apart from MAYBE a ceptor, can turn around and flee or aproach fast enough to jump out of danger? I hear a "use BM¦s and stop being afk you idiot!" coming.... ok I have this 2nd char so I can play and have fun on my main. I DO NOT want to be watching a hauler go around while I can be PvP-ing or ratting or having fun in more active ways. So afk flying is not 100% safe, that I knew, but to allow ppl to use a loophole like this to profit from others that are busy and active doing other stuff (attempting to multytask and ofcourse being male, failing repeatedly). Also I don¦t have all region BM¦s and I don¦t plan on getting them all any time soon. Besides someone told me CCP wasn¦t to happy about the whole gate 2 gate BM business, so why make them neccesery to travel? Hauling in a BS is also not an option when you need alot of cargo space and hauling in a freighter is hard when I lack the skill to navigate it (hope to get 1 within the month though)
Plutoinum	Posted - 2006.05.06 16:58:00 - [14] Nobody except the pirate himself knows that he scans your cargo. That's maybe the reason, why Concord don't react.
Avon	Posted - 2006.05.06 16:59:00 - [15] Edited by: Avon on 06/05/2006 17:00:36 Take away the tools for selective piracy and you end up with more killing. Gate ganking replaced 'stop and ransom' piracy in low sec space almost entirely. If you can't go for quality, go for quantity. Losing insured ships to random ganks in Empire would probably still be profitable if you did it enough. It doesn't take too many good hits to negate the losses. Besides, if it was a hostile act, they would just stick a scanner on an alt in a noob ship. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Yeeeaaaya	Posted - 2006.05.06 17:12:00 - [16] All this talk of high sec piracy is making me hard for blowing up haulers. Maybe I'll give that a shot later.
Sorethen	Posted - 2006.05.06 17:23:00 - [17] I think they should at least flag the offending party and make it aware to you that they've done it and allow you and anyone in your gang to attack the offender. Obviously if you're alone in a hauler that won't help you but it might make the suicide gankers wary because someone with some friends who get's scanned might decide to go get them and gank the ganker.
Bluestealth	Posted - 2006.05.06 17:26:00 - [18] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 06/05/2006 17:00:36 Take away the tools for selective piracy and you end up with more killing. Gate ganking replaced 'stop and ransom' piracy in low sec space almost entirely. If you can't go for quality, go for quantity. Losing insured ships to random ganks in Empire would probably still be profitable if you did it enough. It doesn't take too many good hits to negate the losses. Besides, if it was a hostile act, they would just stick a scanner on an alt in a noob ship. I think your missing the point of the person loosing their ship, you gank a bunch of empty haulers and spend several million doing it, you may stop killing so many hoping for a free payday. I still think people are stupid for taking LOADS of isk arround in tech1 haulers, get BSes, Tech2 Haulers, or Freighters...
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.06 17:31:00 - [19] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 06/05/2006 17:33:09 Originally by: Bluestealth Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 06/05/2006 17:00:36 Take away the tools for selective piracy and you end up with more killing. Gate ganking replaced 'stop and ransom' piracy in low sec space almost entirely. If you can't go for quality, go for quantity. Losing insured ships to random ganks in Empire would probably still be profitable if you did it enough. It doesn't take too many good hits to negate the losses. Besides, if it was a hostile act, they would just stick a scanner on an alt in a noob ship. I think your missing the point of the person loosing their ship, you gank a bunch of empty haulers and spend several million doing it, you may stop killing so many hoping for a free payday. I still think people are stupid for taking LOADS of isk arround in tech1 haulers, get BSes, Tech2 Haulers, or Freighters... Its not by stupidity, its because tech 2 and freighters require lvl 5 industrial skill. Most fighter pilots dont feel like spending 20 days on that... And bs dont have enough cargo space. Ok, maybe for blueprints... --- The Eve Wiki Project
Saeris Tal'Urduar	Posted - 2006.05.06 17:49:00 - [20] These situations can be avoided very easily if people would just make two trips or even three. (dont make it worth them losing their ship(s)) Armor or shield tank a BS if you want to move alot. But really just make a few extra trips. If thats too much of a hassle, then you'll have to deal with the possible consciences. And my god, dont go afk with that many minerals. And to think I wasted my security status ganking miners in low sec.
Saeris Tal'Urduar	Posted - 2006.05.06 18:12:00 - [21] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Jim McGregor You guys should learn that Jita is dangerous. Well, I asked how long it would be before someone completely ignored the point of the thread and started talking about how you should take precautions. Turned out to be exactly half an hour. I could be wrong, but I read the point of the original post as wanting to change in game mechanics to accomadate people not being ass'd to take some simple precautions. Why should cargo scanning be made a hostile act?? Its not like gettting ganked in high-sec is unavoidable, there are multiple solutions to that problem. So I say again; Why should cargo scanning be made a hostile act?? Because, in RL you cant do it?? Bringing RL examples doesnt support the argument because this isnt real life. And if I wanted I could throw out some RL examples to counter his RL argument, but I wont because...<insert obvious answer here> (it reminds me of the thread with the guy who lost all his belongings, and when asked why didnt he make two trips in a tanked BS he said something like "I didnt want too.")
Luther Kincaid	Posted - 2006.05.06 18:26:00 - [22] we keep hearing this.. "yes, but in real life, this happens" eve is an imaginary universe where rules are based on game balance rather than what happens in real life. If it attempted to follow real life rules, you would have the following consequences: you would need to refuel your ships Travel would take ALOT longer than it currently does the simple act of dragging and dropping your cargo into your hold would take ALOT longer You would hardly ever see people in space I'm sure there would be lots of other undesirable things if we started applying real life principles to eve. The only rule I see fit for eve is the following.. adapt or die ------------------------------------------- sig space for hire,the fee is merely your soul and a buttload of pain warning, this sigspace is fitted with T2 antihijack technology Too bad we have Jove technology then, cause this was no match for us - Wrangler I have already won the thread, end of forum boss respawns when Kieron says so - Cortes - - Imaran
Vincent Gaines	Posted - 2006.05.06 18:42:00 - [23] there should be a way to block a scan, plain and simple if a hauler can't haul, what's the point? and don't say "don't go the Jita" because that's like saying, "stay out of New York if you don't want to get mugged"
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.06 18:55:00 - [24] Originally by: Vincent Gaines there should be a way to block a scan, plain and simple if a hauler can't haul, what's the point? and don't say "don't go the Jita" because that's like saying, "stay out of New York if you don't want to get mugged" As someone has pointed out earlier, a ship that blocks the scan would be deemed as valuable and get attacked anyway. Personally i think it adds to the excitement of the game to know that i can get ganked in empire. Watching my back at least adds some excitement to hauling. --- The Eve Wiki Project
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.05.06 19:19:00 - [25] RP sense has little value when it is in conflict with desired gameplay balance. The balance always wins out. CCP wants a balance taht allows what is happening it seems, so that's about all there's to be said about it. Power to the players !
marioman	Posted - 2006.05.06 19:22:00 - [26] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Vincent Gaines there should be a way to block a scan, plain and simple if a hauler can't haul, what's the point? and don't say "don't go the Jita" because that's like saying, "stay out of New York if you don't want to get mugged" As someone has pointed out earlier, a ship that blocks the scan would be deemed as valuable and get attacked anyway. Personally i think it adds to the excitement of the game to know that i can get ganked in empire. Watching my back at least adds some excitement to hauling. yes but then i could fly around and empty badger get ganked then have kill rights and kill the gankers :D
Jason Kildaro	Posted - 2006.05.06 19:24:00 - [27] Originally by: Vincent Gaines there should be a way to block a scan, plain and simple if a hauler can't haul, what's the point? and don't say "don't go the Jita" because that's like saying, "stay out of New York if you don't want to get mugged" Haulers can haul. They require protection. You ask for CCP to give you a solution to these nasty problems and they did. They gave you transport ships! Somebody has yet to counter this arguement whenever I bring it up. Get a transport ship and tank the damn thing. This is EXACTLY why they were made. If you can afford to fly 250 million dollars worth of material through space why not make the small investment in a ship that cona protect it?
Arkanor	Posted - 2006.05.06 19:33:00 - [28] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Jim McGregor You guys should learn that Jita is dangerous. Well, I asked how long it would be before someone completely ignored the point of the thread and started talking about how you should take precautions. Turned out to be exactly half an hour. Beat me to the punch. Yes criminals can case houses and stores for a robbery, but legally? No, but doing that is not punishable by harsh penalties, maybe a small security status loss (if anything) should be the consequence. ________________________________________________ \_/ <-- My care cup, LOOK it's empty!
SonOTassadar	Posted - 2006.05.06 19:36:00 - [29] Originally by: Mr McNoos whila afk flying in Jita(0.9). And that is why you deserved to lose it. ___________________________
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.06 19:36:00 - [30] Originally by: Jason Kildaro Originally by: Vincent Gaines there should be a way to block a scan, plain and simple if a hauler can't haul, what's the point? and don't say "don't go the Jita" because that's like saying, "stay out of New York if you don't want to get mugged" Haulers can haul. They require protection. You ask for CCP to give you a solution to these nasty problems and they did. They gave you transport ships! Somebody has yet to counter this arguement whenever I bring it up. Get a transport ship and tank the damn thing. This is EXACTLY why they were made. If you can afford to fly 250 million dollars worth of material through space why not make the small investment in a ship that cona protect it? Its the 20+ days required training industrial 5 that makes people go for tech 1 haulers and leave themself vulnerable to suiciders. Besides, if everyone started using tech 2 haulers, im sure the suicides would just move up to cruisers instead of frigates. You will never be 100% safe in empire space and personally i think thats the way it should be. --- The Eve Wiki Project

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