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Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
4
   |
Posted - 2011.11.14 07:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
As the title says... This ship really needs a damage bonus buff and it needs it now to coincide with overall gallente buff coming this winter.
Even with the buff to rails it will still do like 100 less dps than other marauders. I do understand that there will always be the worst, and if kronos has to be the worst dps marauder then so be it, but at least bring its dps up a notch. I think this can be best and most easily done by increasing the ship's damage bonus a little. |
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2011.11.14 07:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
A Kronos with more dps is a Vindicator, more or less. : / |
Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2011.11.14 09:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
With hybrid rebalance, Vindicator needs its 37.5% damage buff put back down to 25%. After winter, you will get 1000 dps with 425's and 1600 dps with neutrons. Drones not even factored in there. |
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.14 10:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm talking about Kronos, not Vindicator :p
Anyways, got home to play with the winter expension version of EFT now and here is the comparison for all 4 marauders at equal settings
4 x highest tier guns/missile launchers + 3 x faction damage mod + 1 x T2 rate of fire rig + short range T1 ammo (non faction)
1. Golem 947 DPS (more realistic number would be 873 considering Golem would more likely have missile range rigs instead)
2. Vargur 876 DPS (using 800 ACs)
3. Paladin 864 DPS (using Tachs)
4. Kronos 759 DPS (using 425mm)
This is what I was talking about. If Kronos' DPS came to around 820 or so, I would say fair enough, someone has to come last right? But the difference is just way too big, and it's not like Kronos gets a drone advantage as a gallente ship since all marauders have same bandwidth. |
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
166
|
Posted - 2011.11.14 11:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pookoko wrote:As the title says... This ship really needs a damage bonus buff and it needs it now to coincide with overall gallente buff coming this winter.
Even with the buff to rails it will still do like 100 less dps than other marauders. I do understand that there will always be the worst, and if kronos has to be the worst dps marauder then so be it, but at least bring its dps up a notch. I think this can be best and most easily done by increasing the ship's damage bonus a little.
Some people are way too obsessed by what EFT tells them
I recently trained and bought myself a kronos , after using a paladin for a long time
my opinion a Kronos does it job (pve) just aswell as the other marauders
Except for the vargur i flown evey marauder now on different characters and in my opinion they all handle differently
the Kronos might be the slowest of all in completing missions but it is still a good pve ship and just like the paladin it excells against its natural enemies
and guess what with the moderate upcoming hybrid buff it will even be better
Learn how to fly it in pve all i can say
I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Dark Voynix
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.14 11:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pookoko wrote:I'm talking about Kronos, not Vindicator :p
Anyways, got home to play with the winter expension version of EFT now and here is the comparison for all 4 marauders at equal settings
4 x highest tier guns/missile launchers + 3 x faction damage mod + 1 x T2 rate of fire rig + short range T1 ammo (non faction)
1. Golem 947 DPS (more realistic number would be 873 considering Golem would more likely have missile range rigs instead)
2. Vargur 876 DPS (using 800 ACs)
3. Paladin 864 DPS (using Tachs)
4. Kronos 759 DPS (using 425mm)
This is what I was talking about. If Kronos' DPS came to around 820 or so, I would say fair enough, someone has to come last right? But the difference is just way too big, and it's not like Kronos gets a drone advantage as a gallente ship since all marauders have same bandwidth.
You are comparing 800AC ( short range weapons) with 425mm rails? Compare rails with artillery, or at least consider that where ac are in deep falloff rails are in optimal ( or close t optimal) range.
I'm not saying that Kronos was fine as it is ( in fact it was crappy and worthles to use), but the new expansion could give it a life and you rould reconsider how you read EFT infos. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
37
|
Posted - 2011.11.14 11:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
no , it needs its weapons to get fixed |
Songbird
38
|
Posted - 2011.11.14 16:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
The whole problem is that gallente short range weapons are really short ranged, while caldari and minm can do daamge comfortably at 45 km. As for tachs they're in a class of their own.
If you put blasters and use a mwd I'm sure your DPS will go way higher than that :P |
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2011.11.14 17:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
There are very few missions where you can get away with MWD + Blasters in a mission.... |
JackStraw56
Bayesian Motion
Knights of Tomorrow
23
|
Posted - 2011.11.14 18:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pookoko wrote:I'm talking about Kronos, not Vindicator :p
Anyways, got home to play with the winter expension version of EFT now and here is the comparison for all 4 marauders at equal settings
4 x highest tier guns/missile launchers + 3 x faction damage mod + 1 x T2 rate of fire rig + short range T1 ammo (non faction)
1. Golem 947 DPS (more realistic number would be 873 considering Golem would more likely have missile range rigs instead)
2. Vargur 876 DPS (using 800 ACs)
3. Paladin 864 DPS (using Tachs)
4. Kronos 759 DPS (using 425mm)
This is what I was talking about. If Kronos' DPS came to around 820 or so, I would say fair enough, someone has to come last right? But the difference is just way too big, and it's not like Kronos gets a drone advantage as a gallente ship since all marauders have same bandwidth.
You just compared apples to oranges to kumquats (some of those are short range weapons and some long range). |
Sydney Nelson
Nelson Universal Aerospace
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.14 20:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'm going to start this post by saying, I don't know anything about the Golem, and know very little about missiles.
So, I will probably not say anything intelligent about-it.
Having said that;
The OP's choise of weapons is actually fairly-legit...
I don't think anyone uses Arty on the Vargur (they don't even fit do they?).
On the Paladin, I think most people would ACTUALLY use T2 Pulses (w/Scorch) over Tachs. W/Scorch DPS is almost the same, but ranger is higher. W/Multi DPS is way higher than Tachs for close-range engagements. Not to mention, Pulses use WAY less PG, and Cap.
For the Kronos, nobody is going to us Blasters, 90% of Gallente pilots use Rails for missions (the other 10% are just trying-out Blasters and will be going-back to Rails once they realize how much faster they are).
Not sure why the T2 ROF rig though, I think most people go with the DMG rig, it doesn't matter too-much, but I think a comparison without the rig is more applicable, as some pilots will opt to use CCCs or ANPs or something-else...
One major consideration the OP forgot to take-into account is range-mods and DMG at-range. A Vargur will most-likely fit TEs in the lows with the Gyros. A smart Railgun pilot knows a Tracking-computer (or 2) are worth thier weight in gold. Some Amarr pilots use TCs too.
If you take-into account range-mods, graph the DPS profiles and compare-them you get a much better idea of how-much DPS each ship is ACTUALLY doing.
The Vargur's DPS looks great, but it only does that-much at optimal.
The Paladin out-DPSs the Varg with Multi and with Scorch, it does more DPS at any-range past 16km.
The Kronos out-DPSs the Varg anywhere past 26km, it doesn't out-DPS the Paladin until 60km though.
Over-all I think the Paladin is a little OP since Scorch is a little OP and you can switch between Multi/Scorch instantly. It could be argued however that this is ballanced by the fact that it only does EM/Therm.
Varg looks-good at-first but, the window where it out-DPSs things is smaller. It does have the plus that it can select dmg-type however.
Kronos def needs a buff as it currently stands, and I think it will still need a small dmg buff after the winter expansion to match-up with the others. It can also not select DMG types.
On missions where Kin/Therm are required, and the rats are typically over 40km, the Kronos is the top choise though.
Really, what it boils-down to is;
Where are you missioning?
What are the Rats' resists?
What range are they spread-out at?
Most serious missioners use a Nightmare/Paladin for EM/Therm, and a Mach/Varg for everything else.
I know lots of people use the Golem, and I'm pretty-sure it's good, but like I said, I don't know *** about it.
Different ships for different situations.
Unfortunately the Kronos has less situations where it accels. |
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.14 22:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'm aware of the damage drop in fall off using ACs but as sydney said i should have been clearer about the fact that i wa comparing dps between most used setups (no arties for vargur), so my apologies about that. I do fly kronos but i also fly nightmare and mach and i suppose my gripe with kronos is more based on my anecdotal evidence and i brought eft numbers to put it In numerical perspective. Putting this for aside, do you guys seriously think kronos needa no damage buff? As i feel that its lacking and i do use it in gallente space :p |
Songbird
38
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 13:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
of course it's lacking but you can't just give 7.5% dps to 1 ship and 5% to all the rest... well you can if it's a pirate ship but standardized t2 ships should all have the same bonuses.
Rails really need 10% bonus to rof on top of the dps bonus to be on even grounds with other weapon systems - too bad we're not getting it. |
Desudes
Federal Defence Union
Gallente Federation
27
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 13:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:A Kronos with more dps is a Vindicator, more or less. : /
Except the Kronos and Vindicator clearly have two different purposes, judging by their bonuses.
Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu? |
Wacktopia
Sicarius.
Legion of The Damned.
34
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 13:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Arthur Frayn wrote:With hybrid rebalance, Vindicator needs its 37.5% damage buff put back down to 25%. After winter, you will get 1000 dps with 425's and 1600 dps with neutrons. Drones not even factored in there.
Hurrrr duuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrr. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
202
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 14:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
4 guns x100% dmg = 8guns dps
+3 utility slots (neuts yummy)
This ship doens't need more dmg bonus, the guns or the ammo are in need of some serious dmg upgrade, my option would be the ammo with 50% dmg on top of what they actually have, fair trade off for such ridiculous engagement range. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
40
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 14:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
JackStraw56 wrote:
You just compared apples to oranges to kumquats (some of those are short range weapons and some long range).
you are just dumb if you cant compare some pve ships
btw vargur is the best, oh and torp golem sucky , little speed for target and torp dmg just dropped by 30+%
+vasted torps flying into the nothing after you kill that target |
Sam Bowein
Sense Amid Madness
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 15:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Damage comparison is great, but you also have to factor in damage type.
For example, the Paladin does great damage on paper, but the average rat resistance to EM is fairly high.
Try shooting Guristas or Angels with tachyons, it won't work as well as with railguns ;) |
Arazel Chainfire
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
13
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 22:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sam Bowein wrote:Damage comparison is great, but you also have to factor in damage type.
For example, the Paladin does great damage on paper, but the average rat resistance to EM is fairly high.
Try shooting Guristas or Angels with tachyons, it won't work as well as with railguns ;)
A nightmare is more effective in gallente space than the current kronos. After the buff, that might not be the case, but the kronos really is an anemic POS. A mach is even better in gallente space than the nightmare is. To be honest, you only really need to look at ranges between 5km and 50km, as that is where pretty much all of the rats are going to be. In this range, 3 TE's worth of falloff + the better tracking and damage types of autocannons make them superior, even with you fighting in falloff. Do remember, a mach/vargur at optimal + 1/2 falloff is still doing 80% of its dps... and when you have 70km falloff + 5km optimal you have more than enough effective dps in missions.
As for the great damage, anyone who doesn't use tach's on a nightmare or paladin is generally doing it wrong. Which means that they have full multifrequency damage out to about 40km (the only exception is it is generally better to take pulses against angels). You also usually have approx 40km falloff, meaning that optimal+falloff is about 60km. You are doing enough thermal damage to be effective, and even with the EM damage you are still outdpsing railguns. And there is really no excuse for a faction fit marauder to not break 1000dps at range. Heck, get rid of the useless web bonus for another damage bonus if that is what it takes, as it is, there is no reason, at all, to fly a kronos - even the dominix does a better job.
As to experience, I've flown missions in gallente space for several years, on and off, and used the kronos, domi, golem, nightmare, mach, maelstrom, and probably more that I've forgotten about. I honestly believe that gallente should be better in gallente space than anyone else... as it is, they are outdone by every single other race in their own space.
-Arazel |
Liang Nuren
Perkone
Caldari State
70
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 00:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Pookoko wrote:I'm talking about Kronos, not Vindicator :p
Anyways, got home to play with the winter expension version of EFT now and here is the comparison for all 4 marauders at equal settings
4 x highest tier guns/missile launchers + 3 x faction damage mod + 1 x T2 rate of fire rig + short range T1 ammo (non faction)
1. Golem 947 DPS (more realistic number would be 873 considering Golem would more likely have missile range rigs instead)
2. Vargur 876 DPS (using 800 ACs)
3. Paladin 864 DPS (using Tachs)
4. Kronos 759 DPS (using 425mm)
This is what I was talking about. If Kronos' DPS came to around 820 or so, I would say fair enough, someone has to come last right? But the difference is just way too big, and it's not like Kronos gets a drone advantage as a gallente ship since all marauders have same bandwidth.
A few comments:
- Its a mistake to not use T2/Faction ammo where appropriate. You can't get a full picture of how the ship will perform without factoring it in. Here's a somewhat old rundown of my opinion on the subject: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com/2011/10/26/on-t1-vs-faction-ammo/
- Factoring in 5% hardwirings can change everything - for instance a ship that gets 1000 DPS with no drones will benefit far more than a ship that gets 1000 DPS with half of it being drones. You should totally include them (or 3% at the very minimum).
- You didn't specify fits, so the comparison is kinda meaningless. You should really use the "standard" Marauder fits - which means 4 BCUs and missile range rigs on the Golem. At any rate, how well you apply DPS is a key metric in how effective you are as a mission runner.
- You didn't factor in the idea of how much DPS you do at various ranges. This can be make or break, and the Vargur's ability to not have to switch ammo from long->close range at 40km is kinda a big deal for convenience.
- You didn't factor in how well each ship performs against the various factions. For instance, the Golem and Vargur both have pretty decent damage type selection, but running a Paladin against Angels/Guristas is a lesson in frustration.
-Liang |
Alexandria Aesirial
Viziam
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 00:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:[quote=Pookoko]I'm talking about Kronos, not Vindicator :p
- You didn't factor in how well each ship performs against the various factions. For instance, the Golem and Vargur both have pretty decent damage type selection, but running a Paladin against Angels/Guristas is a lesson in frustration.
-Liang
I used to run missions in a nightmare in amarr space and I get the AE mission once in a while. My nightmare fitted with tachys handles the mission pretty well when compared to a mach using ACs.
It's only blobbing when you lose, otherwise it's good fleet comp. |
Liang Nuren
Perkone
Caldari State
70
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 00:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Alexandria Aesirial wrote:
I used to run missions in a nightmare in amarr space and I get the AE mission once in a while. My nightmare fitted with tachys handles the mission pretty well when compared to a mach using ACs.
Huh, when I was running missions out in Stain I had exactly the opposite experience. And I don't mean by a little bit... dramatically different[
-Liang |
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 00:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Liang those are too many variables - i do agree that a proper comparison should factor in all the points you've mentioned, but i guess i just wanter a quick something to throw out to initiate a diacussion. So thanks for responding with more details and chipping in.
Perhaps we should put Golem aside for now, as it is the only missile boat and as auch operates differently from all the others.
Considering rat types here is what i think-
vs Sepentis : Kronos fares well, but I do not feel that nightmare or vargur perform any less in this regard, considering nightmare getting same damage bonus i'm assuming paladin would fare similarly (correct me if i'm wrong)
My gripe is that Kronos doesnt outperform paladin or vargur vs. Serpentis in a way that Vargur and Paladin outperform Kronos vs. Angel and Sansha respectively, and also, with all skills maxed t1 Domi could actually ouyperform Kronos (might give different picture with damage implants though)
Drones : I didnt factor them in as they all get same bandwidth and none of them gets bonus to drones.
Ranges: Here Kronos actually has some advantage over Vargur, as vs Serpentis it can fight in its optimal most of the time. But this is also a mixed bag as some of yhe serpentus rats close in like blaster boats while some like to stat at over 40km at which Kronos could potentially outdamage Vargur. Maybe here more realiatic comparison can be made using mission conpletion times instead of eft numbers.
This probably as much as i can say for now cuz to be honest i dont have time anymore to run a lot of missions anymore to get large enough sample size to compare completion times meaningfully. :(
|
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
24
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 13:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Pookoko wrote:I'm talking about Kronos, not Vindicator :p
Anyways, got home to play with the winter expension version of EFT now and here is the comparison for all 4 marauders at equal settings
4 x highest tier guns/missile launchers + 3 x faction damage mod + 1 x T2 rate of fire rig + short range T1 ammo (non faction)
1. Golem 947 DPS (more realistic number would be 873 considering Golem would more likely have missile range rigs instead)
2. Vargur 876 DPS (using 800 ACs)
3. Paladin 864 DPS (using Tachs)
4. Kronos 759 DPS (using 425mm)
This is what I was talking about. If Kronos' DPS came to around 820 or so, I would say fair enough, someone has to come last right? But the difference is just way too big, and it's not like Kronos gets a drone advantage as a gallente ship since all marauders have same bandwidth. A few comments: - Its a mistake to not use T2/Faction ammo where appropriate. You can't get a full picture of how the ship will perform without factoring it in. Here's a somewhat old rundown of my opinion on the subject: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com/2011/10/26/on-t1-vs-faction-ammo/- Factoring in 5% hardwirings can change everything - for instance a ship that gets 1000 DPS with no drones will benefit far more than a ship that gets 1000 DPS with half of it being drones. You should totally include them (or 3% at the very minimum). - You didn't specify fits, so the comparison is kinda meaningless. You should really use the "standard" Marauder fits - which means 4 BCUs and missile range rigs on the Golem. At any rate, how well you apply DPS is a key metric in how effective you are as a mission runner. - You didn't factor in the idea of how much DPS you do at various ranges. This can be make or break, and the Vargur's ability to not have to switch ammo from long->close range at 40km is kinda a big deal for convenience. - You didn't factor in how well each ship performs against the various factions. For instance, the Golem and Vargur both have pretty decent damage type selection, but running a Paladin against Angels/Guristas is a lesson in frustration. -Liang
- faction ammo is not really useful if you are not just blitzing for LP or fly a ship with lasers or artillery, also the Formulas don't account for the rof, what makes you spend considerable more rounds with quick firing rails(1-1.5k) or acs(2.5-3.5k)
- the Kronos relays the most of them on Sentry drones, to beef up his substandard DPS, so damage imps have the least effect on it
- the numbers look reasonable to assume 3 damage mod fittings on all of them
- dps lose to falloff is hardly a big deal on the Vargour within 50km and the higher tracking of his short range guns makes it actually a bit better than the numbers would suggest sub 50km, you hardly have to switch to anything else than antimatter if you run the Kronos with 2 TCs outside of sniping stuff at and beyond 100km
- the pala makes up for his weaknesses against some factions(it is mostly Guristas and they are annoying for anybody more by her jamming than anything else) by the awesomeness of Tachs, the Kronos doesn't
In my opinion it simply lacks the drone bay for 5 sentrys and some spares against frigs, what would easily bring the dps up by 100. |
Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
424
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 14:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Pookoko wrote:
Even with the buff to rails it will still do like 100 less dps than other marauders.
Found your problem, you are trying to make a ship with a long range weapon out DPS Ships that use short range weapons.
If you want the Kronos buffed you should be asking for it to be buffed into an effective mission Blaster Platform like it was supposed to be if the Web Bonus is any indication.
Not try to make it more suited to the bastardized fits we are stuck with. Because at that point you might as well remove the Web Bonus and replace it with something that would help Rails =/ |
Songbird
38
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 15:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
I like the sentry drones idea , that is unless they wanna add 600mm rail that's on even footing with the tachs |
Kartaugh
CyberNet Holdings
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 15:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Because at that point you might as well remove the Web Bonus and replace it with something that would help Rails =/
This....a thousand times this.
"It's not that I am afraid to die. I just don't want to be there when it happens." - Boris Grushenko |
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
24
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 16:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kartaugh wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote:Because at that point you might as well remove the Web Bonus and replace it with something that would help Rails =/ This....a thousand times this.
The web bonus is actually quite useful for a stationary rail/sentry platform like the Kronos, since it helps to keep the DPS up against ships within 15km, only leaving like 10km(15-25km) where the low tracking combined with the low damage of rails is a issue. |
Liang Nuren
Perkone
Caldari State
71
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 18:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jill Antaris wrote:
- faction ammo is not really useful if you are not just blitzing for LP or fly a ship with lasers or artillery, also the Formulas don't account for the rof, what makes you spend considerable more rounds with quick firing rails(1-1.5k) or acs(2.5-3.5k)
- the Kronos relays the most of them on Sentry drones, to beef up his substandard DPS, so damage imps have the least effect on it
- the numbers look reasonable to assume 3 damage mod fittings on all of them
- dps lose to falloff is hardly a big deal on the Vargour within 50km and the higher tracking of his short range guns makes it actually a bit better than the numbers would suggest sub 50km, you hardly have to switch to anything else than antimatter if you run the Kronos with 2 TCs outside of sniping stuff at and beyond 100km
- the pala makes up for his weaknesses against some factions(it is mostly Guristas and they are annoying for anybody more by her jamming than anything else) by the awesomeness of Tachs, the Kronos doesn't
In my opinion it simply lacks the drone bay for 5 sentrys and some spares against frigs, what would easily bring the dps up by 100.
Comments:
- The formulas absolutely do account for ammo used. Faction ammo is worthwhile on all marauders - even on the AC Vargur (which I specifically used as an example). It is silly to claim you shouldn't use faction ammo on a rail Kronos.
- You claim that damage implants affect it least because it has to use sentries, but that's just wrong. If anything, they would affect it least because it has less overall DPS. Consider that 10% of 1000 is 100% more than 10% of 500.
- It is not reasonable to assume anything beyond what is widely considered to be the best fit. Comparing the ships with 0 damage mods or with 100 damage mods each isn't meaningful when they're all fit slightly differently.
- Claiming the DPS loss to falloff on a Vargur is hardly a big deal really shows your ignorance.
- Claiming that Tachs make it easier to kill Guris with the Paladin than the Kronos is... well, ******* hilarious. With your stated DPS numbers, the Kronos today outdamages the Paladin by at least 20% against EM strong enemies.
I'm not arguing that the Kronos is great. I'm just saying that the comparison as setup is ******* useless.
-Liang |
Sydney Nelson
Nelson Universal Aerospace
16
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 23:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
When you graph the DPS profiles the results are pretty obvious to me.
For those of you who suggest these ships should be compared with either all short-range, or all long-range weapons, that comparison would be useless.
Nobody uses Arties on the Vargur.
Nobody uses Blasters on the Kronos.
Some people have said they use Tachs on the Paladin, but I'm not sure why.
T2 Pulses out-perform them in every way as far as I can tell.
With Multi loaded the Pulses do WAY more DPS than Tachs out-to 23km, and with Scorch they do about 10dps less and have 10km more optimal. With instant ammo-switching, it seems like a no-brainer to me. Maybe I'm missing something though...
Anyway, what it really boils-down-to is each ship has a particular mission-type that it accels-at.
For any mission where the rats have low EM/Therm resists, Paladin is the hands-down winner. It does more DPS than the Varg with Multi, and can switch to Scorch (instantly) for long-range rats.
For close-range when the rats have high EM/Therm resists, the Vargur.
For long-range when the rats have high EM/Therm resists, the Kronos. (Sometimes the Paladin is still better here if the rats have High-ish Kin resists too.)
Obviously I have over-simplified it a little, but for the most-part, this holds true.
Here are the DPS profiles on a graph:
I set-up a situation where they are firing at a BS sized target, flying away, with the target chasing at a slight transversal.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9/sydneyACE/EVE/Marauder.jpg
The fits are as follows:
No drones, as they all have the same bandwidth and bay-space.
I used Faction Ammo.
This is with a 5% implant for dmg.
[Paladin, PVE] *Red Line*
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
Large Energy Collision Accelerator I
Large Energy Burst Aerator I
[Kronos, PVE] *Green Line*
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
Large Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Large Hybrid Burst Aerator I
[Vargur, PVE] *Blue Line*
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
X-Large Shield Booster II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Invulnerability Field II
[empty med slot]
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
Large Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
If you feel I have made a grave fitting-error, please let me know, and I will revise. |
Liang Nuren
Perkone
Caldari State
75
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 23:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
Sydney Nelson wrote:
Some people have said they use Tachs on the Paladin, but I'm not sure why.
Missions that have EM weak rats tend to start at a pretty substantial range. Range is kinda important and tracking is basically a non-issue.
-Liang |
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