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Vantick Iscod
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Posted - 2006.05.08 00:47:00 -
[1]
I think, its generally accepted that their bonuses are junk. If not, well, lets just say they are for the sake of arguement.
Why not replace them with an extra fighter/lvl. Instead of 1/lvl for the Nidhogger make it 2, and 4/lvl for the Hel. Damage wise, it will balance out near the Gallente carriers, less so once you figure in Drone Control Units, but even then it would be made up for by the greater number of drones.
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.05.08 00:54:00 -
[2]
also note the VERY useful bonus! 5% to cycle 
That is even more useful with Minmatar mothership that gets only 1 more of higslot,
WHILE the Nyx gets it bonust applied to ALL the new fighters it can field.
Someon thats was "#%ñ balanced thees ships, i hope CCP fire him.
[23] Member: BoB Alt
Haha shin ra, haha. |
SengH
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Posted - 2006.05.08 01:05:00 -
[3]
how about this increase the fighter warp speed by 25% per level. That makes use of the minmatar "speed" philosophy and. It'll also means the'll come out of warp before most of their targets at their destination. That'll put it in line with the crazy bonuses on the nyx.
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.05.08 01:12:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 08/05/2006 01:13:03
 Originally by: SengH
Edited by: SengH on 08/05/2006 01:06:35
Edited by: SengH on 08/05/2006 01:05:38
how about this increase the fighter warp speed by 10% per level for carrier and 25% per level for the mothership and +1 fighter per level. That makes use of the minmatar "speed" philosophy and it'll also means the'll come out of warp before most of their targets at their destination. That'll put it in line with the crazy bonuses on the nyx.
how this whuld put it in line? Fighters cant scramble, thsu making theye "follow in warp" thing useless on hostiles.
they can warp araund all day betwean 2 safespots without fighterers getting a shot at him. Or go in pos/dock/jump out of system.
Best way to use fighters is to assing them to interceptors.
and thus DPS bonus is KING.
Galentte carriers/motherships > *
[23] Member: BoB Alt
Haha shin ra, haha. |
SengH
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Posted - 2006.05.08 02:17:00 -
[5]
if their out of warp at the warp out point before the target gets to the destination, their already waiting for him there and thus doing damage to him during the time it takes to realign.It would also give away sniper ships warp in location so you could go there and pop a dictor bubble up.
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.05.08 02:25:00 -
[6]
It might aswell have a mining bonus for all i care because i ain't using that junk till it gets a decent bonus 
Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs |
Vantick Iscod
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Posted - 2006.05.08 02:45:00 -
[7]
+1 fighter/lvl would be all it should get, instead of the rep bonus. If you start adding things on top of that, it would become overpowered.
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2006.05.08 03:23:00 -
[8]
Minmatar carriers were the reason I decided to go for Caldari capital ships over Minmatar capital ships (I had to choose between training Caldari battleship 5 or Minmatar battleship 5). The Minmatar carriers have a bonus that just sucks too much. Once I'm done with dread training and get a few miscellaneous skills out of the way, I'll be going for carriers after that.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.05.08 08:17:00 -
[9]
Well we can see that carrier were pushhed out in hurry forom many things.
Like the rampant bugs tey STILL got.
Tux sed hes gona "look" into it soon 
I hope its REALY soon. as carrier become more and more common every day. And then all the galentte fanboys start whining if theyr pretty carriers get nurffed.
Also note; how many other motherships were build other than nyxes?
[23] Member: BoB Alt
Haha shin ra, haha. |
Nafri
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Posted - 2006.05.08 08:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Well we can see that carrier were pushhed out in hurry forom many things.
Like the rampant bugs tey STILL got.
Tux sed hes gona "look" into it soon
I hope its REALY soon. as carrier become more and more common every day. And then all the galentte fanboys start whining if theyr pretty carriers get nurffed.
Also note; how many other motherships were build other than nyxes?
afaik none, maybe BoB build a amarr one for shrike 
Summertime - Campingtime!
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.05.08 08:43:00 -
[11]
The Amarrian and Caldari carriers are pretty decent ones you realize that they can actually go into battle compared to the Gallentean and Minmatarian. Perhaps not quite as obvious a bonus as a straight damage bonus on the C/A carriers, and perhaps not what you want to do with a Carrier that can delegate it's offensive power for others to use.
The Minmatarian carrier, however, suffer from a grave problem. When an Amarrian carrier can't run a proper tank at the same time as a single remote repairer, how will a Minmatarian carrier do that, then? Never mind the cycle time bonus, the bonus only further makes the capacitor situation worse for the Minmatarian carrier.
(Oh, and while I consider a 5% resistance bonus more powerful than a 5% drone damage bonus, I think all carriers deserve a 5% drone damage bonus base - having the Gallentean one with stronger offensive bonus, while the others have a weaker bonus together with a tanking bonus)
New sig coming soonÖ
Drone musing (MC-boards) |
KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.05.08 08:52:00 -
[12]
You know what would be funny?
All Carrier getting 5% damage, Minmatar get a odd shield Boost bonus, gallente a repair effectiency for armor.. (and i'll be greedy and say gallente keep 10% because i bought one of course).
Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs |
Twin blade
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Posted - 2006.05.08 09:46:00 -
[13]
Hey it could be a Dam TP bonus we are lucky we got a bonus that is some what usefull at all.
To be fair what bonus could we give it.
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El'jonson
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Posted - 2006.05.08 10:02:00 -
[14]
While I agree that the mini carrier is 'broken' lets remember that the gallente one is the most expensive to build by around 65mil isk.
The mini carrier bonus should be altered to use speed like other ships of its races design. How about 5% to jump range and 5% less fuel (per lvls). This would make the mini carrier not the most powerfull or toughest but would be the carrier of choice for fast strikes at the enermy.
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2006.05.08 11:07:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 08/05/2006 11:07:38
Originally by: El'jonson
While I agree that the mini carrier is 'broken' lets remember that the gallente one is the most expensive to build by around 65mil isk.
ZOMG! Not 65 million ISK! NOOOOOO!
In all seriousness, that's either a small price difference to a capital pilot, or pocket change to the corp if the corp provided the ship. I.E. it's a 5% price difference.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.05.08 11:21:00 -
[16]
Since Amarr and Caldari get tanking bonuses and the Gallente got damage bonuses... it would be safe to assume that the Minmatar should recieve a damage bonus too.
I just don't know how having some fuel efficiency or longer jumping would be equal to a damage bonus once you get where you need to go considering they are POS ships first and formost. Basically you are saying you are willing to trade a highly subjective/situational bonus for another highly subjective/situational bonus. If anything we need to be practical. Some good bonus to affect damage output is what is called for.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.05.08 11:23:00 -
[17]
You know what WOULD be overpowered? If the Minnie carrier got a +5% boost to drone (fighter) AI per level ;)
New sig coming soonÖ
Drone musing (MC-boards) |
KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.05.08 11:23:00 -
[18]
Edited by: KilROCK on 08/05/2006 11:23:03
No, Minmatar carrier getting a 5% damage bonus would then make it one of the top 2 Carrier to train for, you don't want minmatar ships a thing to be desired in eve, hell no. It's a bad thing.
Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs |
Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.05.08 11:25:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ithildin
You know what WOULD be overpowered? If the Minnie carrier got a +5% boost to drone (fighter) AI per level ;)
That would mean writing code... maybe in 2007.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.05.08 11:25:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ithildin
You know what WOULD be overpowered? If the Minnie carrier got a +5% boost to drone (fighter) AI per level ;)
Nope, funnier. 5% change to make all new gallente ships have more missile hardpoint than turret per level.
Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.05.08 11:25:00 -
[21]
if they were gonna give the nidhoggur such a ****ty type of bonus the least they could do is make it 10% per level :/
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.05.08 11:28:00 -
[22]
Originally by: KilROCK
Originally by: Ithildin
You know what WOULD be overpowered? If the Minnie carrier got a +5% boost to drone (fighter) AI per level ;)
Nope, funnier. 5% change to make all new gallente ships have more missile hardpoint than turret per level.
oh yeah, sweet justice!
[23] Member: BoB Alt
Haha shin ra, haha. |
Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.05.08 11:29:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sarmaul
if they were gonna give the nidhoggur such a ****ty type of bonus the least they could do is make it 10% per level :/
Less than 2 days until I fly my niddy... I will probably never use any bonus on it unless they chance it to a 10% damage to minmatar fighters which I could live with.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.05.08 11:38:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Sarmaul
if they were gonna give the nidhoggur such a ****ty type of bonus the least they could do is make it 10% per level :/
Less than 2 days until I fly my niddy... I will probably never use any bonus on it unless they chance it to a 10% damage to minmatar fighters which I could live with.
Who are you and what did you do to the original Kaylana?
Last time we had minmatar carrier debate, you sed the minnie bonus were just fine
[23] Member: BoB Alt
Haha shin ra, haha. |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.05.08 11:56:00 -
[25]
and btw, to show you how borked the gallente bonus is - it's caldari who are the masters of fighters, not gallente. to be honest I'm appalled at ccp recently for throwing out the weaponry backstory (the fighter issue isn't the only thing they've done wrong recently).
Fighters and Drones Backstory
Quote:
The Caldari were getting ever bolder and every few months they seemed to have a new and improved version of their nimble solo-fighters, which the Federation had few answers against.
and fyi, the modern day frigates originated from the caldari fighter design.
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OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.05.08 15:11:00 -
[26]
Going on the speed thing you could give it a bonus that makes it take almost no time to make a jump ? At least for the Nid.. Would be useful for small skirmishes where you need to drop in system on someone quickly
Gronsak is Tux's angry alt. |
Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.05.08 15:20:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Sarmaul
if they were gonna give the nidhoggur such a ****ty type of bonus the least they could do is make it 10% per level :/
Less than 2 days until I fly my niddy... I will probably never use any bonus on it unless they chance it to a 10% damage to minmatar fighters which I could live with.
Who are you and what did you do to the original Kaylana?
Last time we had minmatar carrier debate, you sed the minnie bonus were just fine
No if you re-read it I said I didn't disagree with you but going about it the way you and the knight were bothered me. And if we are going to talk about what changes it could have I'd rather say something constructive.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Vantick Iscod
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Posted - 2006.05.08 20:58:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Vantick Iscod on 08/05/2006 20:58:50
The Math:
(Assuming Max Skills)
Carriers:
Gallente: 10 Fighters * 2 (Fighters 5 = 100% bonus to damage) * 1.5 (Carrier skill bonus) = 30 (10*2*1.5) standard fighters worth of damage, with 10 actual fighters.
Minmatar: 15 Fighters * 2 (Fighters 5) = 30 standard fighters worth of damage, with 15 actual fighters.
Motherships:
Gallente: 20 Fighters * 2 (Fighters 5) * 1.5 (Carrier Skill) = 60 Standard fighters worth of damage, with 20 actual fighters.
Minmatar: 25 Fighters * 2 (Fighters 5) = 50 Standard fighters worth of damage, with 25 actual fighters.
Drone Control Units skews this farther towards Gallente, as their fighters are 50% more powerful then a Minmatar fighter, and while each ship can mount an equal number of Drone Control Units, as the difference in number of fighters becomes a smaller percentage of the whole, the Gallente individual fighter bonus becomes significantly stronger. The Nyx still comes out ahead on damage (Unless you go with an extra +2/lvl for the Hel, then its equal), but considering the extra HP presented by having 5 more fighters, its fairly balanced.
A note about scaling, since an extra +1/lvl is a static bonus, it does not scale like the Gallente +10% dmg/lvl. So, its concievable that the Hel should have a +2 extra fighter/lvl to accomadate scaling of size.
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Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2006.05.08 22:58:00 -
[29]
not sure if it is a bug or just a wrong description, but right now on the test server the bonus to cycle time on the minmatar carriers is a lot higher than advertised.
i have carrier lvl 3 and sitting in the Hel mothership, a capital remote armor rep has a 6.38 sec cycle time. that is just over a 12% reduction per lvl.
to make matters worse, that single remote rep would require me to get an insane cap recharge to keep it running. it drains something like 330 cap a second.
I currently dont have the skills for cap recharger 2, but with 7 eutectic cap rechargers in the mis slots (using all seven) i get a 486 sec recharge time which equates to about 246 cap a second recharged. Note that on any other carrier the capital remote armor rep would only drain 216 cap a second with my current skills not the 330+ that comes from the minmatar bonus.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.05.08 23:07:00 -
[30]
give all carriers 5% to their racial drones and another bonus, except gallente who get 10% to racial drones and no special bonus
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