| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Gronsak
   |
Posted - 2006.05.08 22:56:00 -
[1]
too high, i think its probably one of the reasons u dont see them in pvp
i would put some of the newer people we pvp with into them but by the time they got the skills they are more useful in other ships
remove sig analysis 5 to 4
remove long range targetting from 5 to 4
and yeh i know its only 15days training but those 15days would more than incrase the no of ppl able to use the dam things.
k thanks bye 
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen |
Morrigan Starlover
|
Posted - 2006.05.08 23:12:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Morrigan Starlover on 08/05/2006 23:14:03
Its kinda neato that not many fly them though. I feel so elite.
Also EVERYONE should have a decently skilled battleship to do level 3s with efficiently and easily. By the time you get to training for logistics you are like, wtf, all these skills need to be trained!
|
Hllaxiu
|
Posted - 2006.05.08 23:16:00 -
[3]
This would make it far easier to get into a Fleet CC than a Field CC...
---
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Nafri
|
Posted - 2006.05.08 23:35:00 -
[4]
those skills are necessary to fly BS anyway
Summertime - Campingtime!
|
Cadman Weyland
|
Posted - 2006.05.08 23:51:00 -
[5]
I like my Logistics cruisers, just unsure where they really fit into a pvp grouping tbh.
Give them a boost not a nerf, let em fit a single gang mod like a BC can (makes sence seen as u need Logistics lvl4 to fly a Fleet Command BC)
Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
|
KilROCK
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 00:19:00 -
[6]
More like, Boohoo. I want my command ship but i don't want to train everything everyone else had to go, so i make a topic to whine about it.
I'm getting annoying by this.. 
Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs |
Kai Lae
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 00:23:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Cadman Weyland
I like my Logistics cruisers, just unsure where they really fit into a pvp grouping tbh.
Give them a boost not a nerf, let em fit a single gang mod like a BC can (makes sence seen as u need Logistics lvl4 to fly a Fleet Command BC)
/signed
Might be nice to look at their second bonus again as well. Currently 2 are useful in PvP for sniping support and the other 2 are mostly PvE ships. Their capacitor is too low (first thing any logistic pilot does it fit a cap battery) and so are their resists. Why don't I have HAC resists considering that I'm pretty much a primary target every time?
Raptor and Ares Fix |
Pointless Vengence
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 01:15:00 -
[8]
Originally by: KilROCK
More like, Boohoo. I want my command ship but i don't want to train everything everyone else had to go, so i make a topic to whine about it.
I'm getting annoying by this..
Agreed.
IÆm getting tired of the ôlets make this game easierö whine threads that are popping up. (cheese anyone?)
Players who have been around for a while (read as yearS) need to have something to keep them entertained. Elite ships are supposed to be elite. Their skills require months of dedicated training to obtain. Newcomers would most likely try to move up the T1 Tech tree rather then spend that time focusing on one small class. And that is the way it should be.
There is no +50 vorpal sword that every player can wield. There is no Level 60 omfg I have a maxed out uber character. The game is organic and it grows . . . as does yours and all other characters. New content is introduced for both new and old players. If the ship seems unobtainable, then maybe you really donÆt want to fly it. Everyone else who can fly an elite ship earned the right . . . and you can too . . .
In conclusion . . . The game would be rather boring if every ship was easy to fly. If anything, I think ships with more stringent skills need to be introduced. If everything came easy then logging on would eventually become boring and thus . . .
-Pointless
/rant
|
Weirda
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 01:24:00 -
[9]
Originally by: KilROCK
More like, Boohoo. I want my command ship but i don't want to train everything everyone else had to go, so i make a topic to whine about it.
I'm getting annoying by this..
<3 KilROCK...
so true...
Groinsack have too much negativity lately... hard to take serious (more so then someone infactuated with some '3rd person' that ppl keep mentioning) 
the main reason you don't see lot of ship in pvp is because 9/10 you think you have a good 1v1, then you realize that the only reason guy didn't warp is because there are 9 hiding on other side of gate. tbh - only good 1v1 have had lately is when weirda and pirate are bored and we both say hell with it and meet at planet 1. 
between buggy map and not wanting to fly a second account alt like so many others (it is just ghey) weirda often spend 45 minute at fitting screen just to lose ship in 12 second when jump through wrong gate at wrong time. c'est la vie. 
__
Weirda
Assault Ship deserve a 4th Bonus and More!
|
Shadarles
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 03:24:00 -
[10]
"those skills are necessary to fly BS anyway"
All I read here is "I am an elitist snob".
I dont even have level 3 of either of those skills, they are WAY down the line compared to about 50 other more important skills. Especially level 5 of either.
|
Stormhold
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 04:31:00 -
[11]
A few of the logistic ships seem to be decent tacklers. They can take more beating than frigates, but got destroyer like signature and speed and way more slots / pg / cpu.
|
FFGR
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 04:50:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
This would make it far easier to get into a Fleet CC than a Field CC...
You can leave the skill requirements in Fleet BC the same and reduce the skills used for the Logistics skill and ship to 4.
Logistics are kind of nice in small gangs, but most people tend to use damage ships.
When you PvP you can :
Tank the enemy
Kill the enemy
Most people tend to prefer the second.
_____________________________
siggys v. 0.5 |
madaluap
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 05:12:00 -
[13]
couple days ago i finished those skills @ lvl 5, so no freacking waaaaaaaay, 5% extra lockrange for 10 days of training is CRAP, my mega can lock 249 km anyway and thats the max in the game...
if they do this i want a sp refund 
_________________________________________________
OW YEH BABEH, I GOT THE GLITTERS I GOT EM |
The Red
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 05:42:00 -
[14]
Quote:
There is no +50 vorpal sword that every player can wield. There is no Level 60 omfg I have a maxed out uber character....
/rant
Except me, and my +50 Smurgleblaster of d00m.
-The Red
"Reuniting you with your clone since 2003" |
Gronsak
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 06:42:00 -
[15]
Originally by: KilROCK
More like, Boohoo. I want my command ship but i don't want to train everything everyone else had to go, so i make a topic to whine about it.
I'm getting annoying by this..
wtf., id seriously put our noobs into logistic cruisers if they didnt have such high sp requirments, and i can use them alrdy i dont need the skill nerfed
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen |
Troubadour
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 06:53:00 -
[16]
the reason i think logistic cruisers suck is because CCP underestimated peoples' ability to quickly call them primary on sight.
|
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 07:17:00 -
[17]
Quote:
too high, i think its probably one of the reasons u dont see them in pvp
i would put some of the newer people we pvp with into them but by the time they got the skills they are more useful in other ships
Logistic ships are seriously not for noobs. Without very high skills if one intends to use em in pvp it's usefulness expires after 15 secs or so.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 07:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Troubadour
the reason i think logistic cruisers suck is because CCP underestimated peoples' ability to quickly call them primary on sight.
This is the most common misconception in the history of EVE.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Arte
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 07:40:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Arte on 09/05/2006 07:42:20
I disagree Gronsak. There are already entry level logistics ships that can be used by 'noobs'.
Gallente have The Exequror giving remote armour repairing bonuses.
Minmatar have The Scythe that has tracking link bonuses.
Caldari have The Osprey with it's shield transporting bonuses.
And Amarr have The Augoror with the predictable Cap transfer bonuses.
If someone uses them in battle and figures how to use them effecively then the logistics cruisers are the next step up... Tech 2. The skill requirement is steep indeed but...each of the skills that has to be learnt is valuable in itself so it's not a waste of time.
The reason why they aren't used in PVP is because they will be called primary as soon as they are noticed, right after the scorpions. More firepower is preferable in most confrontations except by the more imaginative of gangs because of the nature of battle (gottagank tactics) in Eve.
|
Cadman Weyland
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 08:19:00 -
[20]
Originally by: KilROCK
More like, Boohoo.
I got one fyi, id like a reason to use my 2 Logistics cuisers as well 
Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
|
FireFoxx80
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 08:26:00 -
[21]
I think there are less of these ships, due to the 25m investment for the logistics skill.
Plus command ships are a further 52m.
HAC skill is <cannot remember off hand>
It's expensive just to learn how to FLY the things. Let alone buy them.
But I agree with a lot of people here, I am sure 98% of pilots have the skills trained to lvl4, not lvl5. It took me at least a week to get long range targeting upto the point I could use for logistics. Remember cruisers will take a bit of time too.
|
Nafri
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 09:26:00 -
[22]
theoretical logistic cruisers are pretty decent
I can fly about 1km/s in my scythe with a sig radius similar to a destroyer (even smaller than some destryoers!).
Also the remote repairing is very good, and the tracking boost was pretty nice as well.
Only problem is that remote tracking boosting is pointless since thy changed stacking and that your shield boosting is powerfull, but normally your allied died long before you could help him.
But one day I will join a gankfleet with my scythe 
Summertime - Campingtime!
|
Gronsak
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 09:46:00 -
[23]
come on boys and girls, who said i wanted to put our noobs in logistic cruseirs for logistic reasons??
look at the stats, t2 resistance, cheap, high scan res. fast. VERY LOW SIG basicly half the sig of a HAC and you can plate it up!!
what can they be used for apart from logistics? they make a really good ... well think about it yourselfs!
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen |
Ithildin
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 09:50:00 -
[24]
They're too heavy to be a good tackler, if that's what you're getting at. They're only semi-useful in that role.
And no, don't bump down the skill raqs. It's like kilROCK wrote.
What needs be done is boost their survival further - THATS why they aren't used in PvP AT ALL.
New sig coming soonÖ
Drone musing (MC-boards) |
Gronsak
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 09:53:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Gronsak on 09/05/2006 09:53:47
Originally by: Ithildin
They're too heavy to be a good tackler, if that's what you're getting at. They're only semi-useful in that role.
And no, don't bump down the skill raqs. It's like kilROCK wrote.
What needs be done is boost their survival further - THATS why they aren't used in PvP AT ALL.
imo they work pretty well for tacklers, pretty fast, high can res, low sig, i tend to use my alt in one at a gate and cloacked snipers off 200km. its able to tackle 3points and webber pretty easy, also missile users barly harm them with such low sig, ect
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen |
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 10:51:00 -
[26]
Quote:
What needs be done is boost their survival further - THATS why they aren't used in PvP AT ALL.
Speak for yourself. Their survavibility is the same as any other hacs or cruiser in a small group, and even better in some situations.
People don't use em simply because they can't form up decent complementary gangs. That's not an issue with the ship.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Jin Entres
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 11:00:00 -
[27]
I would argue that Logistics ships' survivability is about the same as an average HAC's (similar resistances, agility, velocity, hitpoints, slots and smaller signature radius). Their applications in PvP combat are quite weak, though - in most situations more damage is better and offers better protection (killing the target reduces all further damage received from that soure) than simply remotely tanking - which requires proper co-ordination.
Their skill requirements are fine. I encourage specialization, and in fact I think many ships could have a lot harsher requirements (it's much more rewarding).
|
Iberi
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 11:14:00 -
[28]
Gronsak!
Please,stop whining about things you do not understand and will never understand.
You make yourself a laughing-stock in missile/Raven discussion, but you have decided that this is not enough?
|
KilROCK
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 11:22:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gronsak
k thanks bye
Finishing a whine topic to nerf down something with Ok, Thanks bye leads you to being ignored and flamed to be honest with you.
The noobs, like stated earlier in this topic can fly the t1 versions of the ships. Oh wow, if it wasn't boring enough for them to do it as a noob and with a crappy ship. Let's make them specialise into something bigger, with more bonus to do the same boring job?
An apoc is a cheap version of what any logistic ship can do, cost wise, training time wise, it's pretty much better.
As far as pvp goes, why bother with logistic in pvp? It's like flagging yourself with a huge red dot and ask to be owned.
Sure some logistic have the ability to repair at distance, from 30-40km but still.
If you want to specialise in support, and like everything in this game well.. you'll train for it and you'll stop whining about it.
I'd seriously stop using the fact noobs can't get in logistic ships when infact you're the one too lazy to get ahold of the skills you didn't train and now need to get into a command ship.
Look ahead and maybe you won't whine.
Oh wait, i bet you noticed you didn't have any of those skills or didn't bother with them for any of your 'multiple' chars so now it's whining time to save a month of training.
Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs |
Tresh Keen
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 11:23:00 -
[30]
i would like to see a Logistic Blockade Runner - a mix between Ferox, Crane and Basilisk ;-)
|
Gronsak
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 11:46:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Gronsak on 09/05/2006 11:47:30
Originally by: KilROCK
I'd seriously stop using the fact noobs can't get in logistic ships when infact you're the one too lazy to get ahold of the skills you didn't train and now need to get into a command ship.
i have the two skills mentioned on lvl 5, i can use a logistic crusier, it has nothing to do with me or CS, put those skills on CS insted of logistic cruseirs!!
if those skills where reduced to lvl 4 insted of 5 we would at lest see logistic crusiers in some sort of pvp!!!!
and fyi i only need bc 5 and cs 1 to use CS its not a class of ship i intend to fly, im a BS pilot, like i siad this is about logisti crusiers and them only, not CS or what ever, decrase the skills on logistic to lvl 4 and put them on CSs if required!!
and just incase u still dont get it: i can use logistic cruseirs, this isnt about me nor CS its about logistic cruseir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111 
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen |
Kaylana Syi
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 11:51:00 -
[32]
I tell you what... my 2nd account is training for Recon, logistics and CS and my gosh its like training for a dreadnaught all over again minus the isk.
I think the logistic cruisers are so sweet for PvE and PvP but they are so highly specialized and sp intensive for what they do... most people won't bother.
/signed ( and I will have mine before any changes were to be made so I am not being greedy )
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
|
Kery Nysell
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 11:54:00 -
[33]
Yes, great idea, so we can have Elite ships with non-elite reqs.
As far as I know, PvP in EVE is all about damage, lots of it, and any form of tanking is basically pointless.
Quite logical too, if you're designed as a target by a whole fleet, there isn't a chance that you can tank the tremendous amount of damage headed your way.
Since Logistics are only cruisers, they would die even faster than the Scorpions ...
In small-scale PvP and in PvE (mainly Complexes), Logistics have their uses, but in large-scale PvP they're just a silly way to throw ISKs by the window.
|
Kaylana Syi
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 11:58:00 -
[34]
Large scale PvP is by far the easiest route to PvP and doesn't require the best of the best equipment or SP.
Small tactical PvP requires more specialization, coordination, and roles to be filled.
So... by having ultra SP investments in some key areas you say to me that you want to keep blobs the defacto eve combat. I don't think that is what CCP wants but that is what they keep doing.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
|
Encad Briht
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 11:59:00 -
[35]
I think the requirements for skills are ok, they are much less then HAC and thats ok.
You still need a lot of secondary skills, at most Cap, and thats equalizes it.
The reason for not using them in PvP is their duration.
Even with the resis and the small sig given they are primary in Small engagements and
have no real use in big ones.
I dont know if a boost is good for those ships, the most
can do very well in PvE and with some training well in PvP too (either as Tackler or as Lifeinsurance for the EW-Ships) but as someone before said :
You can feel 1337 when you master those ships
(cant wait to get my third Cruiser lvl 5 rdy )
---------------------------------------
Member of UU : Diplomatic Corps |
FawKa
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 12:14:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Gronsak
too high, i think its probably one of the reasons u dont see them in pvp
i would put some of the newer people we pvp with into them but by the time they got the skills they are more useful in other ships
remove sig analysis 5 to 4
remove long range targetting from 5 to 4
and yeh i know its only 15days training but those 15days would more than incrase the no of ppl able to use the dam things.
k thanks bye
I do not agree. The logistic cruisers are more powerfull than people things - and that is the reason for the skills. If you want to specialize yourself in some shipclass, you know you have to train for it. I really dont want to see some guys doing lvl 4 missions just because they got a logistic in a month with some alt.
I just say - stop the nerf brigade
|
inSpirAcy
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 12:18:00 -
[37]
Rofl! I didn't even know that class existed.
Man, talk about underused ships...
|
Cadman Weyland
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 12:41:00 -
[38]
Originally by: inSpirAcy
Rofl! I didn't even know that class existed.
Man, talk about underused ships...
Me strokes me Guardian. Tbh mines only ever seen use in a complex or the odd fast fleet op. Very underused, some fleet commanders just dont want them in their gangs. Fire power or nothing tbh. I still think they need a buff to be more usefull.
Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
|
Elegant
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 16:39:00 -
[39]
Why not just make a new "Ship Link" module and have logistics be the only ships able to use thanks to a PG % reduction or something.
The module would take a percentage of the damage dealt to target ship and transfer it to the logistics ship, factored down (or up) for the logi's sig and transV.
Bingo instant fleet utility. Effectively reduces enemy damage and gives primary extra time to warp out.
|
Kaylana Syi
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 17:10:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Elegant
Why not just make a new "Ship Link" module and have logistics be the only ships able to use thanks to a PG % reduction or something.
The module would take a percentage of the damage dealt to target ship and transfer it to the logistics ship, factored down (or up) for the logi's sig and transV.
Bingo instant fleet utility. Effectively reduces enemy damage and gives primary extra time to warp out.
Logistic Cruisers aren't exactly cheap... and they could easily be called primary with that type of module.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
|
Cocyte
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 18:29:00 -
[41]
Originally by: inSpirAcy
Rofl! I didn't even know that class existed.
Man, talk about underused ships...
Especially when you realise it was the first class of elite cruiser introduced ingame...
Originally by: Cadman Weyland
Very underused, some fleet commanders just dont want them in their gangs. Fire power or nothing tbh.
Would they even turn back a command ship filled with warfare links?
-----
Cocyte.
Ex-lecturer of the University of Caille.
Fired after the disparition of a large part of the dean's stockpile of fine wines... |
Cadman Weyland
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 19:27:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 09/05/2006 19:28:04
Originally by: Cocyte
Originally by: Cadman Weyland
Very underused, some fleet commanders just dont want them in their gangs. Fire power or nothing tbh.
Would they even turn back a command ship filled with warfare links?
Id hope not no. They would be daft to do so imho
Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
|
Del ReyII
|
Posted - 2006.05.09 19:49:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Gronsak
come on boys and girls, who said i wanted to put our noobs in logistic cruseirs for logistic reasons??
look at the stats, t2 resistance, cheap, high scan res. fast. VERY LOW SIG basicly half the sig of a HAC and you can plate it up!!
what can they be used for apart from logistics? they make a really good ... well think about it yourselfs!
Well if you lower the skill req. then they wont be cheap anymore. I say no to your skill reduction madness :)
BTW, you are kinda correct, I love my Scimitar, its like a mini-mini-vagabond (much much lower damage output but, nice res.) and is quite fast with mwd.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |