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Ends
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Posted - 2003.09.20 15:09:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ends on 20/09/2003 15:13:03
Edited by: Ends on 20/09/2003 15:11:24
I just ran some tests between several of my accounts. Post patch a Apoc with all gunnery skills at 2 and all cap boosting/increaseing skills at 2 could not shoot down another lvl2 battleship standing still at optimal range before running out of power without using ANYthing but tachs. test was run like this.
2 Apocs. both with 3 tachs with multis, 2 extrudeds and no other power mods (shield booster /armour /hull /tracking comp,1 cargo expander/ 4 photonics) All skills at stated above. Moved to optimal range 16km and opened fire in turns on each other. In 4 separte tests without running anything but Tachs on both ships armour never went below 20% without running out of power. I don't think ANY other large weapon will drain a ship to helplessness before it can kill another lvl2 battleship. Tachs are flashy but still pretty gimpy. Nice for PvE but man if you don't have a boatload of high lvl skills and the wits to get into optimal range before firing your going to get your ass handed to you in PvP.
Please conduct your own tests and add your comments. I think its important the community lose its notion that Tachs are the uber weapon. Very flashy and scary but any equal ship fighting them need only turn on their armour or sheild booster and be patient and count on the tach user becoming helpless from lack of power.
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Kronarty
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Posted - 2003.09.20 23:04:00 -
[2]
Got the same with Armageddon. All gunnery/energy skills at least at lvl 3.
Shields go down quickly enough (although not as much as some people claim). But armor is a ***** to destroy with energy guns. The problem is that it costs the tachyon user as much energy to destroy the opponent's shields as it takes the opponent to boost/harden them. And this is with the Armageddon not using any other module, that means that the arma's shields are not boosted or hardened because cap drain would be even more unbearable.
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.09.20 23:14:00 -
[3]
Noone should ever use tachyons in PvP without controlled bursts 4. Amarr battleship 3-4 is almost a req as well.
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2003.09.21 00:49:00 -
[4]
so 3 tachs will take me to 20% armor.... with NO cap charging mod in? But tachs aren't uber.... as far as I can see, all u do is make an argument that they are overpowered.
I really wouldn't mind so much if their was a comparable weapon. 425's suck.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Kronarty
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Posted - 2003.09.21 00:51:00 -
[5]
 Quote:
Noone should ever use tachyons in PvP without controlled bursts 4. Amarr battleship 3-4 is almost a req as well.
I have bursts 4 bship 4 and they are still cap hogs from the nerf dimension.
Don't assume that we complain because we have inadequate skills, we know our game as well as you do yours.
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.09.21 01:10:00 -
[6]
Quote:
Quote:
Noone should ever use tachyons in PvP without controlled bursts 4. Amarr battleship 3-4 is almost a req as well.
I have bursts 4 bship 4 and they are still cap hogs from the nerf dimension.
Don't assume that we complain because we have inadequate skills, we know our game as well as you do yours.
1) I was replying to Ends with the "all gunnery skills at level 2"
2) I know that they eat a lot of cap. 
As they say; just consider it a special weapon, not the best laser if you don't like it.
1400mm is the best large proj?
720mm is the best medium proj?
Most people would say no. The same applies to the tachyon.
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Kozak
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Posted - 2003.09.21 04:27:00 -
[7]
425's do not suck. I have 4x 425mm Railguns and 3x 250mm Prototype Gauss Railguns and I prefer using the 425's.
The 425's have an optimal range of 33K with Antimatter L ammo and 27K falloff. At optimal range I do 180-280 damage every 5 seconds.
The 250's have an optimal range of 20K with Antimatter M ammo and (forgot the falloff). At Optimal range (after patch) i do about 100 damage per shot every 3 seconds.
That's more damage output at longer range. Tracking is not that bad, I hit as much as I do with the 250's. I tried using 3x 425's on one pirate and 3x 250's on another and the 425's always come out on top.
You just need to get you gunnery up and battleship up aswell to benefit from the 5% damage and tracking bonus on a megathron.
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2003.09.21 11:26:00 -
[8]
Quote:
425's do not suck. I have 4x 425mm Railguns and 3x 250mm Prototype Gauss Railguns and I prefer using the 425's.
The 425's have an optimal range of 33K with Antimatter L ammo and 27K falloff. At optimal range I do 180-280 damage every 5 seconds.
The 250's have an optimal range of 20K with Antimatter M ammo and (forgot the falloff). At Optimal range (after patch) i do about 100 damage per shot every 3 seconds.
That's more damage output at longer range. Tracking is not that bad, I hit as much as I do with the 250's. I tried using 3x 425's on one pirate and 3x 250's on another and the 425's always come out on top.
You just need to get you gunnery up and battleship up aswell to benefit from the 5% damage and tracking bonus on a megathron.
Thanks, but I have 3 mill sp, don't think that's the problem. Large hybrids in general suck. Look, the 425 isin't the worst, but put them into context with tachs. ie what this post is about. Compared to tachs they suck. Compared to a megabeam... ok, bout even. Their is no weapon ingame that can compete with a tach.. period. All ya amarr fanbois can whine about cap use all u want. Maybe if they killed stacking on cap relays I'd buy it. I Don't want them nerfed though... I simply want a comparable weapon.. say a 625rail... with hi grid cap use range and insane dmg too. And by all means a 2000mm proj with equally insane dmg.. grid and rof i guess, as cap is no issue with them.
TomB
Weapon Upgrade Skill should apply to missile launchers
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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NoHawker
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Posted - 2003.09.21 20:54:00 -
[9]
You envious maggots should stop bashing the Tachyons, here is a bit of perky news for you nerfers. Tachyons are more about the hype.
The more I'm using my Tachyons the more I'm growing to dislike them. Their large, loud and demoralizing but ultimately futile. I've been hunting rats with them and to my amazement I actually run out of power to sustain a chain. This never happened to me before. The 600 strikes rarely happen enough to justify these weapons. On average I do 250 damage, it's a questimate.
I'm going back to the garage and picking up some sensible lasers. Tachyons have their place but it sure ain't hunting or 1vs1 fights.
Tachyons may have a good home in fleet engagements and if so they are indeed the "specialized" weapons TomB mentioned. Two strikes out of three... maybe Amarrian ships need a new gimick now.
What are you going to do?
I'm going to kill them all sir |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.09.21 21:04:00 -
[10]
Quote:
425's do not suck. I have 4x 425mm Railguns and 3x 250mm Prototype Gauss Railguns and I prefer using the 425's.
The 425's have an optimal range of 33K with Antimatter L ammo and 27K falloff. At optimal range I do 180-280 damage every 5 seconds.
The 250's have an optimal range of 20K with Antimatter M ammo and (forgot the falloff). At Optimal range (after patch) i do about 100 damage per shot every 3 seconds.
That's more damage output at longer range. Tracking is not that bad, I hit as much as I do with the 250's. I tried using 3x 425's on one pirate and 3x 250's on another and the 425's always come out on top.
You just need to get you gunnery up and battleship up aswell to benefit from the 5% damage and tracking bonus on a megathron.
Hmm. 
(48000/2)*1.25 = 30km optimal at sharpshooter 5
(28800/2)*1.25 = 18km optimal at sharpshooter 5
How do you get those ranges w/ antimatter?
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.09.21 21:10:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Hmm.
(48000/2)*1.25 = 30km optimal at sharpshooter 5
(28800/2)*1.25 = 18km optimal at sharpshooter 5
How do you get those ranges w/ antimatter?
With a Caldari ship, of course.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.09.21 21:15:00 -
[12]
Sure, that's possible when I come to think of it... Except for that they don't give the range bonus to 250mm's (I suppose he's using 1 ship, scorp/raven and not a cruiser for the 250's).
Also, I got it as if he's using a megathron:
"You just need to get you gunnery up and battleship up aswell to benefit from the 5% damage and tracking bonus on a megathron."
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Skel
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Posted - 2003.09.21 21:43:00 -
[13]
Tachyons and mega beams both suck. They use so much cap power that they are useless. Not to mention the crazy powergrid they take. I would much rather use medium than large guns.
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Kozak
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Posted - 2003.09.21 23:40:00 -
[14]
I'm using a Megathron. It's the only ship if you are using Large Hybrids. For better range I'm using a Azimuth Descalloping Tracking Enhancer in the low slot, which give 1.055x range and 1.055% tracking bonus (if anyone is selling a better one, I'll buy it :)
With Plutonium L ammo, my 425's have a 40K optimal rage.
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Jolo
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Posted - 2003.09.22 03:59:00 -
[15]
I use tachs and can fire them almost non-stop without using up all my cap. I go down to 4-50% after killing 5 beasts though. I use 2xtachs so I wouldn't call them useless. If by useless you mean deals 400 damage and doesn't use too much cap.
I use an Apoc. And apoc give you 5% cap recharge and 5% cap redux on large e turrets.
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Ka'loor
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Posted - 2003.09.22 11:34:00 -
[16]
tachs are pretty gimp yes, being able to fit like 1.5 425mm rails against a single tach....whoooo dunno there
Attack without mercy, until blood is gone, until life is gone, until the light is gone, unto the shadow itself.
Better to die with honor, than to live in shame. |
Ka'loor
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Posted - 2003.09.22 11:34:00 -
[17]
tachs are pretty gimp yes, being able to fit like 1.5 425mm rails against a single tach....whoooo dunno there
Attack without mercy, until blood is gone, until life is gone, until the light is gone, unto the shadow itself.
Better to die with honor, than to live in shame. |
DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2003.09.22 11:41:00 -
[18]
You need an complete 7 row of cap rechargers (20% cap rechargers) to sustain in long combat with tachyon... Even IF you got 7 cap rechargers, your out of juice in 1 or 2 minutes...
Since alot people use tachyons, alot of people use hardeners like thermal and em to counter the dmg, making the tachyon less effective and thus less capable to kill its victim.
1:1 any other ship who uses hardeners and xl shield booster and the cap drainers to support it, the tachyon will LOSE.
Raven v/s Apoc = Raven won..
For team combat, the tachyon is good to be combined with other ships weapons... But for large fights, dont expect much of it.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.09.22 11:46:00 -
[19]
is XLarge shield booster on the market? :)
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Iminay
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Posted - 2003.09.22 11:57:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Iminay on 22/09/2003 11:58:14
Quote:
You need an complete 7 row of cap rechargers (20% cap rechargers) to sustain in long combat with tachyon... Even IF you got 7 cap rechargers, your out of juice in 1 or 2 minutes...
Since alot people use tachyons, alot of people use hardeners like thermal and em to counter the dmg, making the tachyon less effective and thus less capable to kill its victim.
1:1 any other ship who uses hardeners and xl shield booster and the cap drainers to support it, the tachyon will LOSE.
Raven v/s Apoc = Raven won..
For team combat, the tachyon is good to be combined with other ships weapons... But for large fights, dont expect much of it.
You talk like someone who has never ever pvp'd before in eve.
I run 2 tachs on my Apoc, no more no less. Simple cruiser engaments I usualy shoot them down using my heavy mod beams, however, if you come across another bs, you will be happy you have your tachs.
No-one, I repeat, NO-ONE will survive a 1v1 bs vs bs pvp match if you just hit your f1 anf f2 button and keep the tachs blazing. Your cap will be empty in no-time leaving you a sitting duck. Use them with care, and you will win.
Example, Typical gate encounter.
Apoc, 6 heavy drones out. Bs warps in. lag wait bla bla, target using sensor booster, warp jam. Now, I dont fire yet. Send out the drones. He will panic and start calling me bad names, then I turn on the 2 tachs once the drones have reached the target. Start pumping and see the shield dissapear. TURN OF THE TACHS, turn on heavy mods to eat at the armor, let cap recharge slightly, turn on EM ward if Im starting to loose too much shield.
Once he reaches half armor/hull target starts to panic, usualy runs out of cap if he threw on all his guns, my cap will be half dry by now, drones still eating, using one heavy beam to pick off his drones if he us using them, if not, I turn on all my guns and evaporate his last bits of armor. If cap runs below 1/4th I simply turn off my tachs and let the heavy mods do the work.
Tachs arent there to blast n blaze, they are support to be used in close cooperation with other guns you have equiped. If you think I'm wrong I invite you to come over and test your theories against me. Be warned though, I killed more ships then you mined roids in your eve life.
Enjoy your day
and remember, its not the ship or guns, its the Pilot that makes the diference in a 1v1 pvp battle.
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