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you betta werk
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
I noticed that all of the veteran pvp corps seem demand that their members fly armor ships. Lots of gangs based around guardians and that sort of thing. If I choose focus on shields will I be screwed if I want to join a strong pvp corp when I'm all trained up? Because the cyclone looks really cool. It's like a space train or a big flashlight. I'm totally down with that. |
Nolen Cadmar
Nexus Ore Technologies and Excavations Surely You're Joking
151
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
There are groups that favor one or the other. Armor tanking allows for open mid slots. Shield tanking allows for open low slots.
It all depends on each group's preference. Nolen's Spreadsheet Guru Services: Need a spreadsheet created, maintained, updated or repaired? Learn more about my services at:-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3865379 |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
314
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Even though Armour is currently dominating, people still use shield gangs in places. Just not for big mainline fleets, as shield ships fat-ass sigs make them easier targets in the current bomber-heavy meta we are currently going through than the more slimline armour sigs. Easy suggestion is to train both in the long run, and never be in a situation where you can't go on a fleet. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
5180
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Armor tanks tend to pack on more raw hitpoints while maintaining a lower signature radius (see: smaller sensor footprint (see: you are harder to hit)) and leaving mid-slots open for Electronic Warfare... which makes them ideal for large fleets.
However, in smaller groups/gangs you will see the opposite... shields being favored because they tend to be faster, more mobile, and able to fit more damage enhancement/application mods in the low-slots.
If anyone tells you "No, ALL shield setups are inferior and suck" or vice versa... look for a different corporation. They're blowing smoke out of their asses. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
929
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Posted - 2014.04.11 19:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
you betta werk wrote:I noticed that all of the veteran pvp corps seem demand that their members fly armor ships. Lots of gangs based around guardians and that sort of thing. If I choose focus on shields will I be screwed if I want to join a strong pvp corp when I'm all trained up? Because the cyclone looks really cool. It's like a space train or a big flashlight. I'm totally down with that. My alliance insists on shield fleets and is focused around scimitars. It is easier to get new players skilled up if you limit to one form or the other. As we fight outnumbered most of the time we fly kiting doctrines and thus shield. Armour gets better resists in return for the lower speed and favours a different fighting style. Other groups have higher SP chars and can afford to mix it up more. Generally doctrines are chosen for a purpose and multiple factors are taken into account. Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1238
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Posted - 2014.04.11 19:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
I do have to agree I see much more armor gangs in my area of lowsec. Most of the comments I hear is that people get "better numbers" out of armor ships, and the mechanics allow for a little slower, more managable pace of combat. However, I personally like the Cyclone too, especially if you add a little off-grid boosting and some drugs. I can't really say why we see less shield fleets, but I wouldn't say you're screwed if you focus on shield now. I'd say you are going to train both eventually anyway if you enjoy PVP. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
311
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Posted - 2014.04.11 20:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Do remember that the 'metagame' shifts when CCP changes or expands content. Shield fleets, though less popular now, will come around again.
Same as weapon systems. When I started rails / blasters were pretty horrible. Now, between them and sentries - they seem to be in style.
If you like a group, train your tank to be useful, and continue to branch out as you play. Eventually the winds will change. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries Order of the Exalted
434
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Posted - 2014.04.11 20:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
My general impression is that shields work best on a smaller scale when flying gangs of faster cruisers and frigates that are trying to maintain specific ranges, while armor fleets work best at a larger scale when trying to maintain small sig raidus and high resistances/buffer. My current corp flies shield fits almost exclusively (we're terrible btw). I've heard (but haven't checked myself) that shields have better repairers. Also in large fleet combat with capitals, shields are just asking to get blapped due to actually being able to be hit. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
312
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Posted - 2014.04.11 20:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:My general impression is that shields work best on a smaller scale when flying gangs of faster cruisers and frigates that are trying to maintain specific ranges, while armor fleets work best at a larger scale when trying to maintain small sig raidus and high resistances/buffer. My current corp flies shield fits almost exclusively (we're terrible btw). I've heard (but haven't checked myself) that shields have better repairers. Also in large fleet combat with capitals, shields are just asking to get blapped due to actually being able to be hit.
Armor repairers are more cap efficient (self), and shield repairers generally have better burst tank (self).
For logistics the biggest difference in my mind is that shield reps repair at the beginning of the cycle and armor reps repair at the end of the cycle. It can make a difference. |
Ethikos
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
5
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Posted - 2014.04.11 20:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Depending on what you mean by large gangs, yes armor gangs are fairly prevalent right now. That being said, there are plenty of very good shield doctrines. As people have mentioned, things are fairly fluid in EvE. The meta changes and different groups have different desires. If I recall, CCP specifically stated they want things balanced to the point that you do NOT have any one dominating doctrine (such as the Drakes of old). As such, focus on getting all your support skills up. It does not take long to get them to 4 and the most important to 5. That way your ready to go if the meta changes for the group your flying with. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=266074 - Sniggwaffe (Waffles)
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Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1258
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Posted - 2014.04.11 22:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Armour gangs/fleets don't fare well in Pulsars (just an example)
eve can be very situational in applying the various meta's it has with tactics and fitting choices and it's very much about using the best tool for the job |
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
521
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Posted - 2014.04.12 02:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:My general impression is that shields work best on a smaller scale when flying gangs of faster cruisers and frigates that are trying to maintain specific ranges, while armor fleets work best at a larger scale when trying to maintain small sig raidus and high resistances/buffer. My current corp flies shield fits almost exclusively (we're terrible btw). I've heard (but haven't checked myself) that shields have better repairers. Also in large fleet combat with capitals, shields are just asking to get blapped due to actually being able to be hit. Armor repairers are more cap efficient (self), and shield repairers generally have better burst tank (self). For logistics the biggest difference in my mind is that shield reps repair at the beginning of the cycle and armor reps repair at the end of the cycle. It can make a difference.
Although from what I have seen from the Ancillary Shield Booster and Ancillary Armour Repairer the AAR repairs more per tick that the ASB counterpart. (Large AAR repairs more than a Large ASB with Nanite paste and Cap boosters loaded respectively). If anyone else has noticed that? Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
305
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Posted - 2014.04.12 02:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Many serious industrial groups require shields. This is due to the mining ships they use being shield/hull tanked. The ECM in shield fleets also helps the miners get out of dodge. ( Makes up for that bigger sig ) Small gangs do well with shields. Shield incursion fleets are more popular than armor ones. Those willing to go pure dps carrier for low sec suprise in battleship fights can do well with shields too.
If you go into large cap fights, armor is where it's at. It is due to the null sec cap fights that armor has become slightly dominate.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
5185
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Posted - 2014.04.12 03:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:Noxisia Arkana wrote:BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:My general impression is that shields work best on a smaller scale when flying gangs of faster cruisers and frigates that are trying to maintain specific ranges, while armor fleets work best at a larger scale when trying to maintain small sig raidus and high resistances/buffer. My current corp flies shield fits almost exclusively (we're terrible btw). I've heard (but haven't checked myself) that shields have better repairers. Also in large fleet combat with capitals, shields are just asking to get blapped due to actually being able to be hit. Armor repairers are more cap efficient (self), and shield repairers generally have better burst tank (self). For logistics the biggest difference in my mind is that shield reps repair at the beginning of the cycle and armor reps repair at the end of the cycle. It can make a difference. Although from what I have seen from the Ancillary Shield Booster and Ancillary Armour Repairer the AAR repairs more per tick that the ASB counterpart. (Large AAR repairs more than a Large ASB with Nanite paste and Cap boosters loaded respectively). If anyone else has noticed that? Somewhat true. While the Ancillary Armor Reppers can repair more per cycle, their cycle time is much slower compared to an Ancillary Shield Booster... which can be a bit of a problem when you are under high, sustained DPS or taking large volleys of damage. Moreover...
- the effectiveness of AARs is almost cut in half once the nanite paste is used up... meanwhile ASBs will continue operating at full effectiveness despite having no more cap boosters... as long as the ship has capacitor power that is (which it won't for long because shield boosters suck cap power like a starved fat kid at a buffet).
- shield boosters in general repair at the start of a cycle while armor repairs take effect at the end.
Both styles have the strengths and pitfalls. Use them accordingly. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5225
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Posted - 2014.04.12 19:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
you betta werk wrote:I noticed that all of the veteran pvp corps seem demand that their members fly armor ships. Lots of gangs based around guardians and that sort of thing. If I choose focus on shields will I be screwed if I want to join a strong pvp corp when I'm all trained up? Because the cyclone looks really cool. It's like a space train or a big flashlight. I'm totally down with that.
It's all flavor of the day. People are rocking armor this expansion period, but it might the complete opposite in the next.
Just train to fly how you like and it will come into fashion sooner rather than later.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Jar ing Loutte
Volm Inc.
0
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Posted - 2014.04.13 03:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Armorbadger |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
3994
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Posted - 2014.04.13 04:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
To give you a small idea about how much stuff changes, during my time in EVE:
Heavy Missile Drakes - Shield and Missile skills Armor HACs (Zealots, Guardians, Navy Stabbers) - Armor and Laser skills HAM Drake - Shield and Missile skills Interceptors - Navigation skills Dominix fleets - Drones. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
339
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Posted - 2014.04.13 04:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
don't forget speed tanking.
gah. Speaking of changes. I remember being in null with a minor fleet of maybe 20 of us. And a couple of nano fit minnie ships, one was a muinin IIRC, would zoom past us taking pot shots and slowly whittling us down. Darn cruisers flying at over 13k were just streaks on the grid. We couldn't hit them at all while several of my friends blew up all around me.
Oh, and Nos used to be king.
Oh, and hulltanked Domi with stupid Effective HP. Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook |
Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
447
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Posted - 2014.04.13 08:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
go for what you like (it's your enjoyment we're talking about), then go for all the flavors eventually
any bunch of dudes no matter how 'veteran' forcing you to sacrifice your playstyle preferences isn't worth your while i just locked an open door.. strange, yet symbolically compelling. |
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