Ah so what you actually want is free permanent learning implants?

This isn't really different from the dumb arguments made against the removal of learning skills, FYI

I argued against removing learning skills. It was a huge mistake on CCP's part.

But you lost, and rightly so because learning skills were garbage timesinks that had zero impact on actual gameplay (unless you consider skill queuing 'gameplay') as are learning implants.

I find it amazing how some players handicap themselves and become slaves to the skill que. Nothing is preventing you from interacting with others except yourself.

This isn't really different from the dumb arguments made against the removal of learning skills, FYI

Temporary boosters. Create more drug trade.

In fact it is.

Unplug your implants. Go PvP. There, in 30 seconds, your dilemma is resolved; a mere question of spending some ISK compared to the irrevocable commitment of several months training time required to complete the learning skills.

Also you are employing the obvious fallacy of trying to imply that +5s are somehow "required". Basically that the SP/hr that you get with +5s is somehow yours by right.

Would you be content if CCP simply removed learning implants and didn't give everyone a +5 bonus to every stat?

If not then what you're actually complaining about is how long skills take to train; a scalar issue rather than a process issue.

So which is the actual problem that you're complaining about here?

1) That it's possible to risk ISK-value assets to increase training speed

2) That skills take too long to train.

In fact it is.

Unplug your implants. Go PvP. There, in 30 seconds, your dilemma is resolved; a mere question of spending some ISK compared to the irrevocable commitment of several months training time required to complete the learning skills.

Also you are employing the obvious fallacy of trying to imply that +5s are somehow "required". Basically that the SP/hr that you get with +5s is somehow yours by right.

Would you be content if CCP simply removed learning implants and didn't give everyone a +5 bonus to every stat?

If not then what you're actually complaining about is how long skills take to train; a scalar issue rather than a process issue.

So which is the actual problem that you're complaining about here?

1) That it's possible to risk ISK-value assets to increase training speed

2) That skills take too long to train.

The issue for me is how it relates to new players.

New players are already behind in SP thus value their SP gains more than vets, and rightly so. New players also have less ISK thus value their implants more than vets, and rightly so.

The mechanic in itself benefits the players that need it least, while being detrimental to the players that need it most.

I'm not against training implants personally however I do think new players need an option of sorts to keep up with the vets. Perhaps new Cerebral Accelerators that last longer - up to you a year +2 all around for example - which provides the permanent boost in training for newer players.

EDIT: Oh, Zappity beat me to it it would seem!

Hey Zappity!

Well... the implants definitely have their spot in the game.

They are great for those who believe that they are worth it.
Great for those who want to cut down on time needed to skill for stuff.

Problem arises only if those who want to skill fast are also those who like to pew!

You know that yourself. You question what they add to the game,
while at the same time you're actually a happy user... until moments like this one come up.

Does that really make sense or is it just the "pain" or "fear of losing them" speaking here?

You seem to want to have both the cake and eat it at the same time... but we both know that won't work.

What it adds to the game is benefit for those who want to use them. It also adds thrill for those few
who use them and at the same time RISK them. You know that too!

You say you don't want to jump into your PvP clone, because you don't want to lose the benefit...

Maybe you're taking it a bit more serious than necessary? Maybe the speedup isn't actually worth it
for such short amounts of time? Have you done the math? How much do you lose if you don't have
them plugged in for a week or two? And... do you REALLY lose anything?

What's worth more? The fun you could have (which you are missing out by choice, as you say),
or the day or two you get to use something better/earlier?

Time goes by anyway, doesn't it?

Zappity, why not make them expensive... and only available in lowsec? Might be a much needed economic boost for the denizens of low.

You are choosing to sit in the station.

The issue for me is how it relates to new players.

New players are already behind in SP thus value their SP gains more than vets, and rightly so.

If a new player gets impatient waiting 2 or 3 days for a level IV skill what happens when they hit 30 or 40 day skills? Impatient people are never going to stay indefinitely, the game is not designed for instant gratification.

The skill system is setup so you can get 80% of the value of a skill in the first 20% of training and level V takes the other 80% of training days for just 20% more. Recent changes including the reworking of drone skills in the summer expansion seem designed to reduce the difference between level IV and level IV training even further.


My personal opinion is all the changes to make it easier for new players including the crazy +17 implants are just encouraging people to play that will end up getting disgruntled when all the super implants and bonuses run out. It would be far better for the game long term to stop giving out these stupid newbie boosts and in fact put the LP price on standard implants up. Sure a few people would quit earlier but long term they are going to rage quit eventually anyway.

This is it. Right here.

Not everyone is cut out for EVE and it's best to discover that early.

I hate learning implants. I have a +5 learning clone sitting in Jita which I jump to if I will be away from game for a few days.....

Or just run cheaper implants like others have said? Sure dropping the 500 mil for a full set of 5's is nice but +3's work too. And in all honesty +4's would work too.

Thats the cost of using attribute implants, Increased skill point allocation, but with the chance of getting podded and losing all dat isk.

You could just not plug in +5s. They don't save much time and you'd have less reason to not PVP.

Mr Epeen

I really dont understand why people want to cling onto learning implants, its like the learning skills...

Just make it more streamlined eg:
Available stat bonuses from implants
+1, +2 and +3

In terms of learning speed
+1 becomes the current +3
+2 becomes the current +4
+3 becomes the current +5

Current +5 and +4 are removed.

Current set implants with +3 are as strong as the old +5 with added bonuses.

There you have it, people can retain learning capability while having nice bonuses for flying ships.

Problem solved, everyone is happy.

It is just a generally bad mechanic in that it discourages PvP. It can be worked around but why have it in the first place? Surely you want to encourage PvP rather than discourage it.

I use other implants in my PvP clones. I know how to warp away.

Most of the time.

It is just a generally bad mechanic in that it discourages PvP. It can be worked around but why have it in the first place? Surely you want to encourage PvP rather than discourage it.

Your ship exploding also discourages PVP, does it not? Afteral, I'm sure a lot more people would PVP if they didn't lose their ISK while doing so. Just like the ship it's a risk/reward thing that you have to accept.

I use other implants in my PvP clones. I know how to warp away.

Most of the time.

It is just a generally bad mechanic in that it discourages PvP. It can be worked around but why have it in the first place? Surely you want to encourage PvP rather than discourage it.

Reductio ad absurdum. And daft too - how many times has it been said that this is not about ISK? Learning implants are cheap compared to the good stuff.