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Jallon Kade Viziam Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.04.13 21:28:00 - [1] - Quote First, no BS about "AFK cloakers have to go" - camping is a valid tactic with a valid counter of vigilance and fleet comp if they try and jump you. What I'd like to see is a single use deployable with a range similar to dscan that when deployed will start a scan cycle for cloaky ships. It lasts something like 1 hours and cycles once a minute. At end of each cycle it has something like a 2% chance to detect any cloaked ship (it rolls the dice separate for each ship in range) in range and post a beacon in overview that expires after a couple of minutes. Warping to the beacon puts you a random distance and direction away from the beacon. Still a 30% chance it won't ever detect a cloaked ship during the entire hour but gives people away to hunt a camper who is not paying attention. All the camper has to do is warp to a new safe if the beacon shows up. The only way they get de-cloaked is if someone warps to and approaches the beacon. Does nothing to prevent cloaky camping, just creates content by turning it into a two way hunt. Could be alot of fun to be a merc corp specializing in anti-campers.
Lephia DeGrande Luxembourg Space Union 325	Posted - 2014.04.13 21:59:00 - [2] - Quote To know they are in a specific range is already to much information, local is more then enough and WH should be dangerous as it is. Support Comet Mining!
Jallon Kade Viziam Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.04.13 23:04:00 - [3] - Quote Lephia DeGrande wrote: To know they are in a specific range is already to much information, local is more then enough and WH should be dangerous as it is. Sure, they are here. So how do you hunt them? Or should a cloaky be completely immune to the non-consentual PvP that makes Eve so great? I'm all for people going for the camping play style, they are just the only play style I can't stalk down and kill. Even the station traders can be forced to confront an adversary by manipulating supply of their chosen goods, haulers & miners can be ganked. If you are in space in Eve you should need to be vigilant.
Nariya Kentaya Phoenix funds 1208	Posted - 2014.04.13 23:51:00 - [4] - Quote Jallon Kade wrote: Lephia DeGrande wrote: To know they are in a specific range is already to much information, local is more then enough and WH should be dangerous as it is. Sure, they are here. So how do you hunt them? Or should a cloaky be completely immune to the non-consentual PvP that makes Eve so great? I'm all for people going for the camping play style, they are just the only play style I can't stalk down and kill. Even the station traders can be forced to confront an adversary by manipulating supply of their chosen goods, haulers & miners can be ganked. If you are in space in Eve you should need to be vigilant. you can hunt cloaks when you can no longer A) see them in local before theyve even loaded grid B) hide forever in a POS with perfect safety C) hide forever in a station with perfect safety D) actually have to defend your space, or some other mechanic that makes the cloaker actually a threat. A cloaked ship can do nothing to you, its weak and more often than not loses to a retriever in an actual fight. cynos dont count as those can be used by alot of ships just as good, and are part of a completely separate problem making EVE to safe/blob-reliant in nullsec.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 2163	Posted - 2014.04.14 00:09:00 - [5] - Quote Jallon Kade wrote: Lephia DeGrande wrote: To know they are in a specific range is already to much information, local is more then enough and WH should be dangerous as it is. Sure, they are here. So how do you hunt them? Or should a cloaky be completely immune to the non-consentual PvP that makes Eve so great? I'm all for people going for the camping play style, they are just the only play style I can't stalk down and kill. Even the station traders can be forced to confront an adversary by manipulating supply of their chosen goods, haulers & miners can be ganked. If you are in space in Eve you should need to be vigilant. Blah blah. Everyone loves to throw out the non-consentual PVP thing when it suits them. You can still hunt them, they will jump a gate eventually, dock/undock etc.
Jallon Kade Viziam Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.04.14 03:12:00 - [6] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: Blah blah. Everyone loves to throw out the non-consentual PVP thing when it suits them. You can still hunt them, they will jump a gate eventually, dock/undock etc. Thank you for proving my point. Cloakers require zero vigilance they are the only ones who can be in space without risk.
Jallon Kade Viziam Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.04.14 03:25:00 - [7] - Quote Nariya Kentaya wrote: you can hunt cloaks when you can no longer A) see them in local before theyve even loaded grid B) hide forever in a POS with perfect safety C) hide forever in a station with perfect safety D) actually have to defend your space, or some other mechanic that makes the cloaker actually a threat. A cloaked ship can do nothing to you, its weak and more often than not loses to a retriever in an actual fight. cynos dont count as those can be used by alot of ships just as good, and are part of a completely separate problem making EVE to safe/blob-reliant in nullsec. None of this is different for any other ship, and if you believe the cloaky is "weak" you've never flown T3. But none of this matters, because the central argument that cloaked ships are the only ones that can be in space without paying attention is true.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 2163	Posted - 2014.04.14 04:10:00 - [8] - Quote Jallon Kade wrote: Derath Ellecon wrote: Blah blah. Everyone loves to throw out the non-consentual PVP thing when it suits them. You can still hunt them, they will jump a gate eventually, dock/undock etc. Thank you for proving my point. Cloakers require zero vigilance they are the only ones who can be in space without risk. Not really. If they want to basically sit still they can stay safe, much like someone docked up or sitting inside a POS shield. If they want to travel, dock, undock, or do anything agressive they become as much at risk as anyone else.
Bane Nucleus Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate 1474	Posted - 2014.04.14 04:29:00 - [9] - Quote As a permanent wormhole space resident, I can safely say cloaked ships die all the time. They aren't some indestructible ship. That is an excuse used by people who are either too impatient to wait and kill him or don't like feeling "unsafe". Right now, I am fairly certain there are about 10-15 neutral, cloaky scouts camped in our wormhole at all times. We still make a ton of isk, do a ton of gassing, and various other pve activities. We also have an active group of pilots ready to come to the aid of anyone caught by a pvp ship/gang. Teamwork.....it really works! No trolling please
Mag's the united SCUM. 17053	Posted - 2014.04.14 07:48:00 - [10] - Quote Reported as a redundant thread. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Ecoskii Penal Servitude 14	Posted - 2014.04.14 10:40:00 - [11] - Quote You go into a wormhole knowing you will rarely solo rat and your entire corp is sitting in the same system - there is no parallel with null sec long term afk b*****ks Don't care which of the many suggestions CCP uses but they need to do something about this basic, stupid and asinine mechanic that blocks PvP and PvE content. This rubbish is at epidemic proportions in some areas of null sec. As long as someone shows any level of activity they are welcome to cloak as long as they want - 24/7 afking needs a counter (and please don't respond with simplistic 'if they are afk they cant harm you comments')
Bane Nucleus Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate 1477	Posted - 2014.04.14 11:07:00 - [12] - Quote Solo ratting happens all the time in wormhole space. I am not sure where you get that it doesn't. Also, a huge majority of wormhole isk is made in wormholes OTHER than the home wormhole. Farming statics and even down chain is very common, so a lot of times help is a few minutes away. The only difference is we don't whine about who might be afk or who might not be. Suck it up buttercup. Eve is unsafe which is why it's so fantastic. No trolling please
Jint Hikaru Truly Transdimensional The Nova Foundry 1184	Posted - 2014.04.14 11:34:00 - [13] - Quote Ecoskii wrote: You go into a wormhole knowing you will rarely solo rat and your entire corp is sitting in the same system - there is no parallel with null sec long term afk b***ks Don't care which of the many suggestions CCP uses but they need to do something about this basic, stupid and asinine mechanic that blocks PvP and PvE content. This rubbish is at epidemic proportions in some areas of null sec. As long as someone shows any level of activity they are welcome to cloak as long as they want - 24/7 afking needs a counter (and please don't respond with simplistic 'if they are afk they cant harm you comments') So remove cloaked vessels from local. This will enhance both PvP and PvE..... PvP - a cloaker can now catch people in space, rather that hiding out in stations. Yaay more PvP PvE - now you Zero-Bears don't have to scuttle off to the protection of docking because someone appeared on local. Yaay more PvE! Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.**
Silvetica Dian Manson Family Advent of Fate 942	Posted - 2014.04.14 11:43:00 - [14] - Quote Ecoskii wrote: You go into a wormhole knowing you will rarely solo rat and your entire corp is sitting in the same system - there is no parallel with null sec long term afk b*****ks Don't care which of the many suggestions CCP uses but they need to do something about this basic, stupid and asinine mechanic that blocks PvP and PvE content. This rubbish is at epidemic proportions in some areas of null sec. As long as someone shows any level of activity they are welcome to cloak as long as they want - 24/7 afking needs a counter (and please don't respond with simplistic 'if they are afk they cant harm you comments') 90% of the wormholes i have run sites in i was solo. I have never owned a POS. Daytrippers do this all the time. There are many counters to afk cloaking but almost no counters to local. If i afk cloak in high sec no one cares. If i do it in a WH then i am just one more that they will adapt to. If i do it in low sec no one cares. God nullbears are whiny children that can't do the simplest thing without a FC and a CTA to back up their ratting. Look at how others cope. Learn, plan, adapt. Either mount a defense force, scout the entry pipes /enemy form up systems or accept a few losses as the cost of doing business. But you won't do that. Next time one of your corp mates is tackled in a site by a solo ship the rest of you will sit shivering in your POS until the bad man has gone. Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Infinity Ziona Cloakers 2168	Posted - 2014.04.14 12:18:00 - [15] - Quote So many stupid comments here. Let me address what should be blantantly obvious. 1. Cloaking and cynos go hand in hand. They are not separate issues. Cyno is the ultimate form of cloak. Cyno ships do not show in local. They have no align times. No recalibration delay. No scan resolution penalty. No reactivation delay. 2. Cloakers in wormhole space are no where near as dangerous as in k-space. You cannot cyno into a wormhole. You cannot get instant intel on residents in a wormhole to pick an easy target. You can pick up non covert ships easily with a scanner. They do not magically appear in the 10s to 100s in the space of a second after a covert de cloaks. 3. Hot drops and cloaking are anti-PvP. To try to suggest that they're a counter to local is fallacious. They're a counter to risk. We have a perma-logged on Titan in our area with a bunch of people camped around it, if you engage most of that alliance you will almost certainly be hot dropped. This means not engaging those people. People use hot drops to avoid PvP. They use perma cloaky campers to avoid PvP. Unless of course you consider PvP with no risk of losing and no chance of your opponent winning PvP. I do not. Going back to the days of a cloaky in local being a cloaky would be a tremendous boost to PvP. If there is one cloaker in local then you have to deal with one ship which might attack you. In comparison to now where that one cloaker could be 10, 50, 100 or more ships. That's a bullshit situation with no counter and anyone that says otherwise is either stupid, a risk averse hot dropper or a troll IMO. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467
Bane Nucleus Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate 1479	Posted - 2014.04.14 22:13:00 - [16] - Quote I love it when people try to imply that pvp only means good fights. Player versus player does not imply equal terms or consent. You are a player getting shot by another player(s). Welcome to PvP. Secondly, you are correct. A cloaky in wormhole space does not have the same instant force projection that a cyno provides. That doesn't mean the cloak is all mighty and powerful. It means the cyno on the cloaky is what causes the real threat. Take away the cyno on a cloaky and all 5 people who think cloaking is broken wouldn't complain. Lastly, I freely admit that I do not live in, nor have I ever lived in null. However, don't sit here and try to change a mechanic that would single handedly change the game play for an entire region of space, which offers something unique to all of Eve. Changing something to appease 5 whiners while destroying the game play for thousands is idiotic, at best. No trolling please
Gigan Amilupar No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad 217	Posted - 2014.04.14 22:26:00 - [17] - Quote Said I would.
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 112	Posted - 2014.04.14 23:07:00 - [18] - Quote Jallon Kade wrote: Derath Ellecon wrote: Blah blah. Everyone loves to throw out the non-consentual PVP thing when it suits them. You can still hunt them, they will jump a gate eventually, dock/undock etc. Thank you for proving my point. Cloakers require zero vigilance they are the only ones who can be in space without risk. And you also prove another point: cloakers by nature of being cloaked present no direct risk until they have decloaked. The only risk from a cloaked ship is the one in the players mind. However, I do like the idea of a counter to cloaking. The problem with this proposal is that it is just a tad too random. I am in favor of a counter (ie: specialized probes that can take you within 15-30 KM of the cloaked ship) to cloaking so long as cloaking itself is not nerfed (ie: fuel or timer requirements). A proper counter allows covert ops to remain nigh untouchable except for when they uncloak, jump through gates, or get decloaked due to proximity. And the only way they would be decloaked due to proximity would be if they failed to pay attention to the overview and probes in D-Scan. Otherwise, cloaking is fine as it is.
Infinity Ziona Cloakers 2184	Posted - 2014.04.15 00:02:00 - [19] - Quote Bane Nucleus wrote: I love it when people try to imply that pvp only means good fights. Player versus player does not imply equal terms or consent. You are a player getting shot by another player(s). Welcome to PvP. I love it when people try to redefine the meaning of PvP. You are a database item owned by a player being shot by lots of players and have no practical means to change the outcome. Welcome to not PvP. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467
Mag's the united SCUM. 17062	Posted - 2014.04.15 00:37:00 - [20] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: Bane Nucleus wrote: I love it when people try to imply that pvp only means good fights. Player versus player does not imply equal terms or consent. You are a player getting shot by another player(s). Welcome to PvP. I love it when people try to redefine the meaning of PvP. Player vs Player implies the ability for both sides to change the outcome by player input. You are a database item owned by a player being shot by lots of players and have no practical means to change the outcome. Welcome to not PvP. But you've just attempted to do just that. You may think that's what it implies, but PvP is merely regarding competition. No where does it state or imply, that that competition has to be fair. Welcome to PvP. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 2164	Posted - 2014.04.15 01:28:00 - [21] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: 2. Cloakers in wormhole space are no where near as dangerous as in k-space. You cannot cyno into a wormhole. You cannot get instant intel on residents in a wormhole to pick an easy target. You can pick up non covert ships easily with a scanner. They do not magically appear in the 10s to 100s in the space of a second after a covert de cloaks. What is blatently obvious in this area is someone who clearly does not understand wormholes trying to use it as a defense of their beliefs. I am nowhere near a expert at any type of PVP, but here is an example that illustrates how wrong your comment is http://washb.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=22880359 1. Cloakers in WH space are absolutely deadly. 2. There is no need for a cyno. Cyno's largely are a counter to local, as there is no way to be truly covert when you show up in local. We managed to sneak in without getting caught on dscan by this solo site runner (yes also shows that people do solo rat in wormholes). He absolutely melted in maybe 40 seconds. There was no need to cyno in a big force, he died just fine without it. 3. Instant intel goes both ways. It also makes covert operations work in wormholes because the prey doesn't get intel any more easily than the predator.
Bane Nucleus Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate 1480	Posted - 2014.04.15 01:42:00 - [22] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: I love it when people try to redefine the meaning of PvP. Player vs Player implies the ability for both sides to change the outcome by player input. You are a database item owned by a player being shot by lots of players and have no practical means to change the outcome. Welcome to not PvP. PvP simply means player vs player. At no point does it state anything about the circumstances of the interaction. It's simply one player against another. Sorry you don't like it and it doesn't work with your argument, but that's what it is. Mag's wrote: You may think that's what it implies, but PvP is merely regarding competition. No where does it state or imply, that that competition has to be fair. Welcome to PvP. This guy gets it No trolling please
Infinity Ziona Cloakers 2185	Posted - 2014.04.15 01:47:00 - [23] - Quote Bane Nucleus wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: I love it when people try to redefine the meaning of PvP. Player vs Player implies the ability for both sides to change the outcome by player input. You are a database item owned by a player being shot by lots of players and have no practical means to change the outcome. Welcome to not PvP. PvP simply means player vs player. At no point does it state anything about the circumstances of the interaction. It's simply one player against another. Sorry you don't like it and it doesn't work with your argument, but that's what it is. Mag's wrote: You may think that's what it implies, but PvP is merely regarding competition. No where does it state or imply, that that competition has to be fair. Welcome to PvP. This guy gets it No player vs player means player vs player. By your skewed and incorrect definition shooting a player owned GSC is PvP. Maybe in your risk averse world but in the real world nope. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467
Bane Nucleus Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate 1480	Posted - 2014.04.15 01:54:00 - [24] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: No player vs player means player vs player. By your skewed and incorrect definition shooting a player owned GSC is PvP. Maybe in your risk averse world but in the real world nope. Gotta watch out for those piloted GSCs! I really hope you are trolling and that you aren't so dense lol No trolling please
Draconus Lofwyr UK Corp RAZOR Alliance 90	Posted - 2014.04.15 02:03:00 - [25] - Quote cloaky camping has issues, but if you want to go down that rabbit trail then fine, you can keep your cloaky camper but only if, 1. you cant see anything in space around you since that fancy field that distorts you from being seen, keeps you from seeing anything else. gate warps and permanent celestial warps are fine since those are charted celestial bodies. if you want to get technical and say you can see because of your "sight drone" then why doesn't it decloak you? the OP's idea is one of the few devices to add a "sonar search" to the hidden that does not immediately overpower the fight. if you want a slight buffer, then make it so it wont find any cloaked ships that have been cloaked less than 1 hr.
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 529	Posted - 2014.04.15 02:09:00 - [26] - Quote Nariya Kentaya wrote: you can hunt cloaks when you can no longer A) see them in local before theyve even loaded grid B) hide forever in a POS with perfect safety C) hide forever in a station with perfect safety D) actually have to defend your space, or some other mechanic that makes the cloaker actually a threat. A cloaked ship can do nothing to you, its weak and more often than not loses to a retriever in an actual fight. cynos dont count as those can be used by alot of ships just as good, and are part of a completely separate problem making EVE to safe/blob-reliant in nullsec. A) This is the same for all ships. Cloaks should not be exempt. Those that rely on speed instead of stealth have the same problem. The true problem here is your choice of target, stop hunting people that rely on evasion and you will have an easier time catching them. B)You cannot hide in a POS with perfect safety. Awox happens. Cloaks are actually safer than in a POS. C)Stations are designed intentionally as the only place your ship should be completely safe, and in Null sec the station can change hands and thus effectively lose you access to your property by being unable to move it out. D) For local to be an effective tool of evasion, you must defend your space. High Sec is what happens when you do not secure space but only punish those proven to be hostile, and ganks happen all the time despite a 100% effective kill ratio by CONCORD. Local does not need cloaks to balance it, it is balanced on it's own by being a tool that demands an attentive, active player to use and the efforts of many to remain viable. By contrast cloaks demand almost no tradeoffs for complete immunity to non-consensual action of any kind.
Bane Nucleus Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate 1480	Posted - 2014.04.15 03:18:00 - [27] - Quote I was waiting to see how long it would take for you to show up here, Mike Mike Voidstar wrote: A) This is the same for all ships. Cloaks should not be exempt. Those that rely on speed instead of stealth have the same problem. The true problem here is your choice of target, stop hunting people that rely on evasion and you will have an easier time catching them. Any ship in space is a target, regardless if they can defend themselves adequately or not. As a cloaked ships, I cannot activate hardeners, shoot, or do anything of the sort. Once I decloak to become aggressive, my tank and dps is significantly gimped to allow for cloaking. Even most T3 fits that scan and cloak are severely diminished in regards to offensive and defensive capabilities. Being stealthy and sneaky comes at a great price. Mike Voidstar wrote: B)You cannot hide in a POS with perfect safety. Awox happens. Cloaks are actually safer than in a POS. True. POS's are not totally secure. However, if you are having to worry about possibly being awoxed, a cloaky scout is the least of your problems Mike Voidstar wrote: C)Stations are designed intentionally as the only place your ship should be completely safe, and in Null sec the station can change hands and thus effectively lose you access to your property by being unable to move it out. They can change hands with some effort and time. Hell, NPC space you don't have to worry about it at all. Mike Voidstar wrote: D) For local to be an effective tool of evasion, you must defend your space. Completely and utterly incorrect. There is no defending your space when you see one person jump in local, and a 30 man mackinaw fleet aligns and warps to safety before anyone has the time to even find out where they are. There is no defending anything there. Mike Voidstar wrote: Local does not need cloaks to balance it, it is balanced on it's own by being a tool that demands an attentive, active player to use and the efforts of many to remain viable. By contrast cloaks demand almost no tradeoffs for complete immunity to non-consensual action of any kind. I'd call a weak tank, weak dps, and the ability to use no modules while cloaked a pretty severe trade off. No trolling please
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 529	Posted - 2014.04.15 04:02:00 - [28] - Quote Bane Nucleus wrote: I was waiting to see how long it would take for you to show up here, Mike Any ship in space is a target, regardless if they can defend themselves adequately or not. As a cloaked ships, I cannot activate hardeners, shoot, or do anything of the sort. Once I decloak to become aggressive, my tank and dps is significantly gimped to allow for cloaking. Even most T3 fits that scan and cloak are severely diminished in regards to offensive and defensive capabilities. Being stealthy and sneaky comes at a great price. True. POS's are not totally secure. However, if you are having to worry about possibly being awoxed, a cloaky scout is the least of your problems They can change hands with some effort and time. Hell, NPC space you don't have to worry about it at all. Completely and utterly incorrect. There is no defending your space when you see one person jump in local, and a 30 man mackinaw fleet aligns and warps to safety before anyone has the time to even find out where they are. There is no defending anything there. I'd call a weak tank, weak dps, and the ability to use no modules while cloaked a pretty severe trade off. Any ship in space is a target... except for cloaked ships. The entire idea of cloaking breaks down on this singular point. They are completely and utterly safe once cloaked. The point about the POS is that unlike cloaks, they are in fact not totally secure. True, you have bigger problems, but these things happen. It is in fact another example how local itself is not completely safe---using it relies on the goodwill of your allies. Stuff happens. Local enables a choice, nothing more. It is the active responsibility of the pilot in space to make and act upon any decisions he deems necessary. The point on stations is that they are supposed to be safe. The post I quoted claimed this was a problem that needed correcting, apparently by being able to be just as safe in enemy space with a cloak active. Space does need to be defended for local to be useful. That defense happens over time, before your fleet got there. If you let your space be flooded with neutrals you will have exactly the same situation as highsec, where ganks are common even with a 100% effective punishment force. I am sorry you don't like being evaded, perhaps you should stop trying to pick fights with Mackinaw's? You are costing them ISK every second they stay docked due to your presence---I am sure someone more bored than me can figure out how long you need to stay before you have cost the owners of the space the equivalent of a ship. Only those ships designed as Cov-ops have inherent drawbacks on tank and dps-- and they get better cloaks. Any ship can fit a cloak, and just about all of them have the resources to do so without harming their viability overly much, and they all have the cap to run them indefinitely without compromise. Cloaks are trivial to use, completely effective for indefinite time periods, and almost totally passive. There is no compare to the effort of using a cloak to disrupt activity in a system and the effort required to keep local clear enough to where it can be used to effectively evade enemy ships. Local isn't difficult to use once you have space clear because it isn't supposed to be. The intel it provides about the presence or absence of another pilot is as fundamental to the mechanics of K-space as is the ability to orbit. You want to discount the efforts that go into keeping space clear enough to use local, but you can't do that any more than you can disregard Null Sec supply runs to Jita to keep stuff staged where it's needed. Alliance efforts maintaining that space in a usable condition is something that pilots should be able to take advantage of. Unhuntable cloaks are broken. Every ship in open space should be huntable at all times, requiring an active and attentive pilot to make the decisions that keep that ship unexploded. Activating a module and leaving it on isn't active. Watcing local and warping if you don't like what's coming is.
Bane Nucleus Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate 1482	Posted - 2014.04.15 05:07:00 - [29] - Quote Cloaked ships are always targets the second they decide to become aggressive. I've made the point before that cloakys are working perfectly, to which people responded "because they can't fit cynos". That right there explains the true issue with what you are trying to say. If CCP made players choose between fitting a cyno or fitting a cloak, would it even be an issue for you? No trolling please
Hyacinthine The Scope Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2014.04.15 07:10:00 - [30] - Quote Jint Hikaru wrote: So remove cloaked vessels from local. Boring! Make it entertaining... Ships cloaked longer than five minutes display a cloak icon next to the name in local. Clients AFK longer than [insert arbitrary number] minutes show an AFK icon next to the name in local. Any input whatsoever, even if not in the EVE client, should disrupt the AFK timer. AFK cloakers become as harmless as people claim them to be.
Infinity Ziona Cloakers 2185	Posted - 2014.04.15 08:38:00 - [31] - Quote Bane Nucleus wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: No player vs player means player vs player. By your skewed and incorrect definition shooting a player owned GSC is PvP. Maybe in your risk averse world but in the real world nope. Gotta watch out for those piloted GSCs! I really hope you are trolling and that you aren't so dense lol is there a difference between dropping 30 ships on 1 ship vs shooting a GSC? Other than a GSC is harder to kill due to 500000 ehp? As for piloted GSCs yes they do exist. Theyre called freighters. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467

ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1148	Posted - 2014.04.15 09:15:00 - [32] - Quote There have been and are several proposals made on similar modules/mechanics. They can be found here, or with slightly different search criteria, here. Thread locked. The rules: 16. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked. As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


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