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Agata Matahari
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
36
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Posted - 2014.04.16 11:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Is that true? Due to the newest dev blog, will t2 bpos get nerfed? |
Otin Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Thundering Herd
3
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Posted - 2014.04.16 12:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
I've read the Dev blogs so far and read most of the threads.
I don't see where T2 BPOs are being hurt or nerfed.
Of course, (and I may have this wrong) needing to move the BPOs about for manufacturing will make them more vulnerable but, I guess that's part of CCPs whole risk vs reward plan. |
Nolen Cadmar
Nexus Ore Technologies and Excavations
Surely You're Joking
173
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Posted - 2014.04.16 12:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Why would the changes effect T2 BPO's specifically? T2 BPO's will be used in stations and never in a POS with the new changes. So I guess build cost will be increased? But they'll still be making more profit than anyone running invention.
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Kythrol Dhorin
Shadows Of The Requiem
The Unthinkables
2
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Posted - 2014.04.16 14:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
From what i understand t2 BPOs have the potential to recieve a minor buff. The removal of "extra materials" indicates that ME should play more of a factor in t2 production meaning increased costs for invention (where ME is often negative) and decreased costs for BPO owners.
Although considering the quantities involved i suspect this will be a negligible difference :P
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brinelan
The Flying Dead
Bloodline.
149
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Posted - 2014.04.16 15:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Agata Matahari wrote:Is that true? Due to the newest dev blog, will t2 bpos get nerfed?
citation needed |
RonPaul Rox
Justified Chaos
6
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Posted - 2014.04.16 18:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kythrol Dhorin wrote:From what i understand t2 BPOs have the potential to recieve a minor buff. The removal of "extra materials" indicates that ME should play more of a factor in t2 production meaning increased costs for invention (where ME is often negative) and decreased costs for BPO owners.
Although considering the quantities involved i suspect this will be a negligible difference :P
exactly, as if t2 bpo holders werent already a priveleged class, they now have an even bigger advantage. invention ME= -4, t2 bpo ME= as high as they want
and now that ME affects more ingredients, they have a bigger cost advantage |
Proton Power
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
7
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Posted - 2014.04.16 18:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
While I understand the concern, don't forget most major t2 producers use POS's for quicker output. This will not be done once tihs patch hits, meaning they will be producing 15%-25% (Percentage may be off some sorry) less than what they are now.
So if demand is the same, t2 bpo producers are producing less, people doing invention will still make isk, and the ability to do theres in a POS with little risk, and ability to do multiple runs of the item non-stop whre a BPO holder can't (Unless they invent as well).
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Bill Sharts
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.04.16 19:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bpo copy time is also being reduced significantly (all bpos. Even t2). Which could open up a new market for researched t2 bpcs. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger
Nulli Secunda
1341
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Posted - 2014.04.17 01:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
It's all speculation until we get some real numbers
GRRR Goons |
Eleisa Joringer
Les chips electriques
1
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Posted - 2014.04.17 05:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
They wont be nerfed.... they will keep their efficiency if you put them in a pos.
i wonder when james and his new order will gank POSes |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3081
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Posted - 2014.04.17 10:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Buff: Extra materials are being moved into base materials, in some fashion. so it's possible for ML to affect it.
Nerf: If you want to manufacture in a POS, the blueprint has to be in that POS.
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
559
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Posted - 2014.04.17 11:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
RonPaul Rox wrote:Kythrol Dhorin wrote:From what i understand t2 BPOs have the potential to recieve a minor buff. The removal of "extra materials" indicates that ME should play more of a factor in t2 production meaning increased costs for invention (where ME is often negative) and decreased costs for BPO owners.
Although considering the quantities involved i suspect this will be a negligible difference :P
exactly, as if t2 bpo holders werent already a priveleged class, they now have an even bigger advantage. invention ME= -4, t2 bpo ME= as high as they want and now that ME affects more ingredients, they have a bigger cost advantage
AFAIK the size of the market for a lot of things dwarfs what any individual T2 BPO owner can produce in a given time so I don't think it's a major factor driving market competition. Also remember that T2 owners, if they bought it, more than likely paid so much for it that it'll take them 10 years to recover the initial investment before they even start turning a profit on them.
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
2173
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Posted - 2014.04.17 12:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
There is also the matter of location, is there not? A T2 BPO holder could find their favorite station is now too expensive after the patch and changes to build cost per station line. I would imagine this could necessitate a choice of moving a very high value item to a new station which puts it at great risk. |
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers
184
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Posted - 2014.04.17 15:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Agata Matahari wrote:Is that true? Due to the newest dev blog, will t2 bpos get nerfed?
I like short answers.
No.
However the discussion above is quite interesting.
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Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
145
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Posted - 2014.04.17 18:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Not wishing to stir the pot but T2 BPO's are not really that much of a problem. For the most part higher quantities of T2 items can be made via invention. It's largely a case of envy. I realise the T2 BPOs should not have been distributed as they were at the time but everyone makes mistakes.
NB. I have never owned and probably never will have, or actually want, a T2 BPO.  |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3085
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Posted - 2014.04.17 18:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:Not wishing to stir the pot but T2 BPO's are not really that much of a problem. For the most part higher quantities of T2 items can be made via invention. It's largely a case of envy. I realise the T2 BPOs should not have been distributed as they were at the time but everyone makes mistakes. NB. I have never owned and probably never will have, or actually want, a T2 BPO.
Right now, there's no problem with them.
It all depends on the changes to copy times. As long as they're not overly reduced on T2 BPOs, that will continue to be the case. If, say, the copy time was reduced to 1 hour for a full run copy (unlikely) there'd be an issue.
Moving extra materials into base materials also has a potentially significant effect on them, due to the multiplication from negative MLs.
I'm waiting for the later devblogs before going crazy.
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
580
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Posted - 2014.04.17 23:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Moving extra materials into base materials also has a potentially significant effect on them, due to the multiplication from negative MLs.
Good point about the ME on invention. It'll make the T2 BPO more profitable relative to the T2 invented item. I guess it depends on what proportion of the market is BPO generated. I don't think CCP have ever released numbers on this, have they.
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3087
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Posted - 2014.04.17 23:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:
Moving extra materials into base materials also has a potentially significant effect on them, due to the multiplication from negative MLs.
Good point about the ME on invention. It'll make the T2 BPO more profitable relative to the T2 invented item. I guess it depends on what proportion of the market is BPO generated. I don't think CCP have ever released numbers on this, have they.
CCP Diagoras released some figures in 2012. K162 has them collated somewhere.
Hideously out of date by now, of course.
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http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/
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Mistah Ewedynao
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
456
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Posted - 2014.04.17 23:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:There is also the matter of location, is there not? A T2 BPO holder could find their favorite station is now too expensive after the patch and changes to build cost per station line. I would imagine this could necessitate a choice of moving a very high value item to a new station which puts it at great risk.
You're kidding right??
Nerf Goons
Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
3472
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Posted - 2014.04.18 03:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:There is also the matter of location, is there not? A T2 BPO holder could find their favorite station is now too expensive after the patch and changes to build cost per station line. I would imagine this could necessitate a choice of moving a very high value item to a new station which puts it at great risk.
Blockade Runner. That's how I move BPO when I buy them. |
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Jerome Gouillot
Pangalactic Frontline Supply Agency
20
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Posted - 2014.04.18 11:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:Not wishing to stir the pot but T2 BPO's are not really that much of a problem. For the most part higher quantities of T2 items can be made via invention. It's largely a case of envy. I realise the T2 BPOs should not have been distributed as they were at the time but everyone makes mistakes. NB. I have never owned and probably never will have, or actually want, a T2 BPO. Right now, there's no problem with them. It all depends on the changes to copy times. As long as they're not overly reduced on T2 BPOs, that will continue to be the case. If, say, the copy time was reduced to 1 hour for a full run copy (unlikely) there'd be an issue. Moving extra materials into base materials also has a potentially significant effect on them, due to the multiplication from negative MLs. I'm waiting for the later devblogs before going crazy.
this - up to now it is only guessing
If you look at different BP, you will see that the impact of moving extra material into base material has a potential to have either no (e,g. t2 frigate hulls) or huge impacts (e.g. t2 small guns)
Interesting times ahead .... |
gas guzzler
i'm from the government and i'm here to help
0
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Posted - 2014.04.18 11:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:Not wishing to stir the pot but T2 BPO's are not really that much of a problem. For the most part higher quantities of T2 items can be made via invention. It's largely a case of envy. I realise the T2 BPOs should not have been distributed as they were at the time but everyone makes mistakes. NB. I have never owned and probably never will have, or actually want, a T2 BPO.
it's a mistake that could have been mitigated long ago by not giving invention BPCs -4 ME
-4 ME is a big **** you to all non bpo holders |
Jerome Gouillot
Pangalactic Frontline Supply Agency
20
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Posted - 2014.04.18 11:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:
Moving extra materials into base materials also has a potentially significant effect on them, due to the multiplication from negative MLs.
Good point about the ME on invention. It'll make the T2 BPO more profitable relative to the T2 invented item. I guess it depends on what proportion of the market is BPO generated. I don't think CCP have ever released numbers on this, have they. CCP Diagoras released some figures in 2012. K162 has them collated somewhere. Hideously out of date by now, of course.
http://k162space.com/2012/07/17/percentage-of-items-from-invention-vs-tech-2-bpo/
I do not expect the figures to be extremely different now |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3091
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Posted - 2014.04.18 12:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:There is also the matter of location, is there not? A T2 BPO holder could find their favorite station is now too expensive after the patch and changes to build cost per station line. I would imagine this could necessitate a choice of moving a very high value item to a new station which puts it at great risk. Blockade Runner. That's how I move BPO when I buy them.
Nano Blockade runner, with an insta undock bookmark on the station you're leaving, and an instadock on the station you're going to.
In high-sec, that's close to 'untouchable'.
Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322
http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger
Nulli Secunda
1342
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Posted - 2014.04.18 13:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
if i had a T2 BPO i would build in a nullsec outpost. moving T2 BPOs through nullsec is much safer than moving them through high :)
GRRR Goons |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
15163
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Posted - 2014.04.20 19:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
So you think there will still be T2 BPOs after the last blog
Interesting feedback, thx.
Here is my CSM9 endorsement list - vote for diversity of expertise : Ali Aras-á Mangala Solaris-á Mike Azariah-á Steve Ronuken
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3102
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Posted - 2014.04.20 20:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:So you think there will still be T2 BPOs after the last blog
Interesting feedback, thx.
There's nothing explicit in there that's suggesting that they'll be removed.
Removal would be a kind of major step.
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http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/
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Felicity Love
Whore and Peace
1687
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 01:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
... notes number of T2 bpo's appearing on contracts recently... 
... and I was just saying the other day, "Damn, I miss Soundwave"....
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger
Nulli Secunda
1345
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 03:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:So you think there will still be T2 BPOs after the last blog
Interesting feedback, thx.
there is a bunch of people out there who just p**** their pants
GRRR Goons |
Yi-Ming Gren
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS
CODE.
55
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Posted - 2014.04.21 09:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:So you think there will still be T2 BPOs after the last blog
Interesting feedback, thx.
Have I said how much I love you lately?
I think I just heard large volume of people **** their pants all at ounce. |
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