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Siekman Beldrulf
State Protectorate
Caldari State
19
   |
Posted - 2014.04.16 21:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello Everyone!
I've very recently started pvping actively in faction warfare and have really enjoyed it. However, every single time I seem to lose a ship, it's always to a speedy kiting frigate with drones or some other long range weaponry. They always have points that seem to reach out 30k when ours only reach out 10k. I guess I just don't know what I'm supposed to do against them in a rifter.
Any help you could give about dealing with them would be greatly appreciated :).
Thanks
Siekman |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
1132
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 21:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
If you are in a brawl ship, the best counter to kiters is usually to be first in a plex and sit close to the button.
That gives you the opportunity to tackle incoming ships before they pull range on you, but you need to act quickly because pulling range will be their first priority if they enter.
You need to be careful with the systems you select for this because it also opens you up to being blobbed on by fleets.
Aside from that, speed is the next best counter so you can get into tackle range quickly at the start of a fight before they get to full speed.
If you are facing frigates that point you at 30 km and longer, then they are using skirmish links. They are probably using multiple skirmish links, so also getting a speed bonus and lower sig radius.
If they get to full speed before you can tackle, then you can try more niche tactics like manouvering your ship to try to have them bump off an acceleration gate or asteroid (those are obviously location dependent).
You can try slingshot tactics burning slowly in one direction and then turning and overheating your AB or MWD when they are behind you to try to close on them before they evade, but that is more miss than hit against boosted ships (with practice it works well against unboosted ships).
Finally, the tactic you'll eventually get to is avoidance. Watching d-scan constsntly and just avoiding the most common kiting ships like Condors, Tristans (just hit their drones), Kestrels (often missile fit but also commonly rocket fit so you can fight them ok), etc. If you see a links ship on scan anywhere is system, expect your opponent to be boosted.
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
SmokinJs Arthie
Justified Chaos
14
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 21:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
They are using a warp disruptor, it goes to 20km for T1 and 24km for T2 (without overheating). All it does is prevent you from warping. You are using a warp scrambler, has range within 10km. The scrambler will turn off the kiters microwarp drive.
There are 2 things you can do:
1) get a faster ship and try and catch them with with the warp scrambler and pound away on them, as most kiting ships lack a good tank. Since you are using a rifter I would look into using a slasher. I would suggest getting thermodynamics trained up so you can overheat your modules to catch them.
2) or you can try and slingshotting them into scram range. I didn't watch that particular video as I am supposed to be working right now. But I know there are videos out there that can help you with some counters to kiters.
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Balshem Rozenzweig
Akademia Milicyjna
The North is Coming
47
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Posted - 2014.04.17 12:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
the other 2 guys gave good advice. Slingshot will rarely work on a good guy (hey - I almost always manage to avoid it and I'm not good :P) but it's worth to try it.
If you are in a part of space you know the entry point to (like FW plex or mission) you can orbit that entry point (beacon) at 1,0 - 2,0 km on you ab turned off. As soon as you see enemy ship enter the dead space turn you afterburner and mircowarpdrive on and start spamming 2 buttons on your control tab (can't remember the name - it's the one with align to/warp to/target buttons): approach (the same as align to) and target. Overheating you AB is also good but if you're new and have problems controlling the situation - don't bother.
This will make you change direction and fly into the invaders direction as soon as possible. By then You should press your respective "F" key for warp scrambler (overheated ofc)(I usualy put scrambler on the 4th slot so it's F4 for me) and web if you have it.
This works in most cases, esp when you have web. You need to actively follow the guy (approach) because most of them will manage to get 1,5 s of their mwd cycle and it's enough to take them outside scram range. With you "afterburning" at them on OH - not so much.
So, as a resumption, don't wait till the guy starts running away. Spam the buttons and you will not loose a single second that he could use. You should press your warp scrambler but once since the module "waits" for quite some time before deactivating and will be automatically applied when something is locked.
If you have any extra problems, or if kiters are a notoriety for you - there are fits out there that have web (or long range weapon) pretty much required. These in particular could help you with intercepting kiters, as web makes them >50% slower.
Also - never be bothered to try this on an interceptor. It's a waste of ship and time. If someone wants to "duel" you with a ceptor - warp away. T1 ships are good enough for tormenting newbies and he should be able to do just fine in'em :P
"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe |
Froggy Storm
The Praxis Initiative
Gentlemen's Agreement
204
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 12:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Keep in mind that 99% of frig fights are over before they start. Contrary to the intuitive notion, the margin for error on frigs is often so miniscule and the window so short that good analysis of what happened can be difficult.
Due to that, the two most critical factors in (many) frig fights is knowing when to engage and how to fly.
Knowing what configuration an opponent is (likely) flying based on hull and or gun recognition will go a very long way towards choosing wise fights. For an exaggerated example your T1 rifter is always going to lose a fight to one of those AT frigs. So knowing what your engagement envelope looks like is job 1 and then only take fights you think you can win.
Second, and almost as important is knowing how to manually fly well. If you watch the PvP videos out there you can often see who does it well and who doesn't. Moves like the afore mentioned slingshot require you to know how you and your opponent are traveling all within the few seconds that the fight lasts.
Don't get too frustrated. Lose ten ships a day for a week and then look back on where things went right and when they went wrong. Adjust fits and tactics accordingly. You'll either figure out (like I did) that frig fights are not for your slow brain/fingers or you'll improve. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
110
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
If you want to try Hybrids, Rails with Spike (or even Lead) can hit out to Point range (for optimal damage I should add).
Tracking is low-ish, but MWD sig bloom of the kiter makes yer rails track perfectly @20km or more.
Avoid high-speed/low-sig/long-point boosted scumbags and Interceptors (the latter have MWD sig bloom reduction).
Some kiters have Tracking Disruptors with Optimal Range scripts, in that case you may be screwed. 150mm rails with Spike may still hit though (even if unbonused).
Have fun! |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
2060
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Some scram kiters have enough range to chase away most kiters.
My comet can generally make everyone not sporting a dual td crap their pants.
Or you can fly a fast ship with a mwd.
BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
311
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 15:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
get lyyyynnnnnxxxxx |
Tengu Grib
Maniacal Laughter Ltd.
43
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 19:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Here's what I do when faced with someone running a kitting fit:
1) Die.
2) Pray I get my pod out.
3) Repeat.
Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever.
SolidX > i'm an alt IRL |
Hrett
Justified Chaos
368
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 20:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
There is nothing like a lot of solo frigate fights to make you better at this game. Keep at it, win or lose.
Also, dont fight people in Condors or Hawks. Ever. Ever. Yes, you can probably beat them sometime, but you should punish them for flying those @^&$#&$ ships by denying them the enjoyment of the fight.
I'm probably typing on an iPad, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
209
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 17:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Just don't play on windy days. Everyone knows kiting is a bad idea on a calm day. Just doesn't work.
Try an enyo with rail guns on it.
Use faction disruptors and mwd.
Uncloak your rapier.
SUUUUUUCK them dry w/ a sentinal.
Range disruption so they can't hurt you.
Damp them into scram/web range. |
Alaric Faelen
Sabotage Incorporated
Executive Outcomes
252
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 06:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
1) go faster.
---navigation skills, prop modules and hull upgrades, rigs, overheating. Even if you can't dictate range, at least lessen the other guy's ability to.
2) learn to fly.
---manual piloting is your friend. You're looking to either force the engagement in close so you can web/scram the bad guy, so he can no longer kite...or...get him too far out to maintain his point. Kiting takes place in a pretty narrow envelope- it's very easy to end up too close and webbed, or too far and lose your warp jam. Aggressive flying can force kiters to have to respond to your actions rather than impose their own.
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Katrinna Voight-Kampf
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 09:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rock-paper-scissors :) |
Doctor Knuckles
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 10:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Buy an atron, slap Neutron/Ions, an MWD, a scram, a shield extender, DCU, power core, mag stab on it. Rig it for damage or tank, both works, i'd go for damage. Don't even need T2, not even meta 4.
Now you have a proper derptron, which costs 1/4 of their kiter, and absolutely murders those pesky kiting condors and those scary slicers.
Slingshotting works fine most of the time. Of course a very good pilot might see it coming and not get caught, but in my experience those are very rare and most people aren't that good, or they might avoid it once, twice even, but the third.... BLAP. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
1022
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 13:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
All good advice above. If you're in something that will last a minute don't forget that a mobile depot lets you refit during the fight.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
God's Apples
Aunenen Civil Liberties Union
366
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 01:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Doctor Knuckles wrote:Buy an atron, slap Neutron/Ions, an MWD, a scram, a shield extender, DCU, power core, mag stab on it. Rig it for damage or tank, both works, i'd go for damage. Don't even need T2, not even meta 4.
Now you have a proper derptron, which costs 1/4 of their kiter, and absolutely murders those pesky kiting condors and those scary slicers.
Slingshotting works fine most of the time. Of course a very good pilot might see it coming and not get caught, but in my experience those are very rare and most people aren't that good, or they might avoid it once, twice even, but the third.... BLAP.
It's funny how a decent LML condor can brawl one of those garbage "derptrons" |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2155
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 17:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Doctor Knuckles wrote:Now you have a proper derptron, which costs 1/4 of their kiter, and absolutely murders those pesky kiting condors and those scary slicers.
Pretty inexpensive kiting ship..... |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
Imperial Outlaws.
1656
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 18:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
LML Kestrel. 780 Alpha. MSE. Selectable damage type. 100km lock range for silly sensor Disruptor fits. |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
679
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 18:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
Edit: Well I was going to help but then I see OP flies ab rifters, sorry but you deserve to die.
nom nom
|
Siekman Beldrulf
Elysian.
Heiian Conglomerate
19
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 21:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:Edit: Well I was going to help but then I see OP flies ab rifters, sorry but you deserve to die.
Just changed to mwd. Help me out man, I'm just trying to learn here. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
1341
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 22:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
Zappity wrote:All good advice above. If you're in something that will last a minute don't forget that a mobile depot lets you refit during the fight.
Who actually does this in FW?
Heavy frigate meta with fights generally lasting less than 1 minute, but even they do last longer, are in larger ships, how many people out there are actually refitting mid fight in FW systems?
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
317
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 23:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Zappity wrote:All good advice above. If you're in something that will last a minute don't forget that a mobile depot lets you refit during the fight. Who actually does this in FW? Heavy frigate meta with fights generally lasting less than 1 minute, but even they do last longer, are in larger ships, how many people out there are actually refitting mid fight in FW systems?
i do. if i start to loose a fight i refit to stabs and warp off |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
954
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 00:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Zappity wrote:All good advice above. If you're in something that will last a minute don't forget that a mobile depot lets you refit during the fight. Who actually does this in FW? Heavy frigate meta with fights generally lasting less than 1 minute, but even they do last longer, are in larger ships, how many people out there are actually refitting mid fight in FW systems? i do. if i start to loose a fight i refit to stabs and warp off not to mention changing mids to kill some ****** 9kms condor pilot orrrr needing an extra web cuz some *** is under my guns. or refiting to an active tank. or changing out jams on my griffin/blackbird so many reasons to do it. yet so many people dont
I might have to give it a go I think. Might be a good way to add flexibility to you cruiser setups but would increase your loss much more if you have 2 fits worth of gear in the hold etc. But what the hell it's only isk!
That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
317
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 02:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:[
I might have to give it a go I think. Might be a good way to add flexibility to you cruiser setups but would increase your loss much more if you have 2 fits worth of gear in the hold etc. But what the hell it's only isk!
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20641698 things can defiantly go wrong. risk/reward |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
954
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 03:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote:[
I might have to give it a go I think. Might be a good way to add flexibility to you cruiser setups but would increase your loss much more if you have 2 fits worth of gear in the hold etc. But what the hell it's only isk! http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20641698 things can defiantly go wrong. risk/reward
Yeah kinda figured 
TBH I would have thought it would be best if you were in a brawling setup seeing as the 'depot' pretty much ties you down to a single point or do you drop it, kite off, then circle back around type of thing?
That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
317
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 03:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
in that instance. i had a anti kite fit setup. so i mwd'ed out to 60km anchored and refit to my long point TP and web. i could knock hard at like 40km with radio.
so the 2 frigates came in and i was perma jammed. and i guess the thoraxs were nano shield or somthing but they were on top of me quick and during the re fitting of stabs i just died.
unsuccessful story but there is many other successful ones.
i have yet to test if saving fits and saying 'fit ship' works under the mobile depot would be nice to just insta fit stabs and bail
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Sister Lumi
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
90
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 13:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Let them kite, fit warp core stabs and find another plex. There's always empty ones available, no need to waste time fighting over them.
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