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Zorael
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Posted - 2006.05.14 19:59:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Zorael on 14/05/2006 20:07:27
To be a good pvp group you need to work within a group. The solo fighting I am sure is fun but the fact is when the battles started, ts seperated from that moment. Call me a carebear call ts carebear. The fact remains and evident we were divided from our top down even within respective corps. When the ships rolled in everyone went to there home base to defend it. There were several of us that would group but actually got nothing done as in a defense to the invasion. Were just too many for a gang of 7-20.
There were searious mistakes made up to this point but everyone makes them. To jump on a banwagon to say one group did more than the other is flat out wrong. Makes me sad to see several in the TS threads point fingures at stc or anza mwb or whoever. You all should just look in the mirror. We lost this battle due to communication.
Our so called expert pvp couldnt agree on who what when where to direct us carebears. Dont blame the greedy little miners for this inability to unite TS. Fact is you came to Paragon Souls to be greedy also. Everyone in Eve knows its not pvp hotspot.
I dont think it was so much of the people were afraid of loosing a ship as much as it was who will step up to the plate and lead an effective defensive battle. After all the pvpers we all look up too, should of been the expert in this. There are a few examples of great work in fighting but the overall plan was either hushed to where it couldnt be performed or it was a give up from the start.
The other thing that so many forget to look at is maybe it wasnt TS sucked as much as the way ASCN planned and excuted this take over. It was very smooth they had great logistical movement and great spies for everytime we went to counter they were there. TS wasnt a huge pvp threat to begin with but still the amount of planning and organizing this so smoothly was evident to all of us.
The biggest mistake paragon souls or even the southern part of the eve universe was the civil wars. Enough said.
I am a carebear I get to play from work and enjoy making isk but I am also willing to fight as much as I can loose ships and keep moving forward. Great time so far learning more everyday in every pod mine or theirs. I can log on each day knowing I did what I could, to the best of my knowledge and skill level as a pvper. I think some of the better pvper from TS just want to push blame on the carebears to hide there inability to organize a defeated ts before the battle even started.
No hard feelings, towards the leadership or all of our friends in TS. It was a difficult situation to be in with so many different points of view. Everyone there knew something was going to happen just didnt expect the timing that it did.
Great job logistically and infiltrating the top management of TS. Ascn my hats off too you and I am sure we will be playing against each other soon.
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Lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part |
Nafri
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Posted - 2006.05.14 20:12:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
I am a carebear I get to play from work and enjoy making isk
that makes me really sad, if you consider that I started PvP together with that character 2.5 years ago
Summertime - Campingtime!
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Zorael
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Posted - 2006.05.14 20:15:00 -
[3]
No worries mate I still try to target you first just not a hard core pvper.
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Lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part |
Mitch Taylor
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Posted - 2006.05.14 20:22:00 -
[4]
I appreciate your 'nice' non biased view Zoreal, I really do.
But when you look at the time and isk that was invested into paragon by STC and its members, you have to establish reasons. My post on the forums is Roleplay, I hope all can see that, but the point is relevant. Someone has to take responsibility for destroying the hard work of the many. This is how real life corporations work, I see no difference here.
regards,
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Elenia Kheynes
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Posted - 2006.05.14 21:09:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Zorael
No worries mate I still try to target you first just not a hard core pvper.
How to say that...
It's in four letters, it's about your account, it's bad according to ccp and it's you got your character. Need I to say more ? =)
I join Nafri's complaint 
Dear friendly customer... Can I have your money ?
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Orb Lati
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Posted - 2006.05.14 23:06:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Mitch Taylor
But when you look at the time and isk that was invested into paragon by STC and its members, you have to establish reasons. My post on the forums is Roleplay, I hope all can see that, but the point is relevant. Someone has to take responsibility for destroying the hard work of the many. This is how real life corporations work, I see no difference here.
Assets were destroyed? Im assuming your refering to the outposts. They havent been destroyed they are just under new managment.
STC will always have the bragging rights of actually being able to coordinate the resources to construct them and nobody can take away that claim.
But then you have to relise that Outpost dont belong to anybody other than CCP. All STC and now ASCN have is use rights to them.
Im sorry for the Tribals loss of Paragon soul, but these things happen. Its up to the individual player to assess whats more important to them. Access to the Region and "thier" structures or taking the blows with thier team mates in their allaince.
Frankly I find the critisium of the leadership of Tribe by players who supported tribe up to the point of ASCN's attack a bit dispointing.
If your not happy with directions your leaders are taking you express that opinion (including leaving the group) before "the **** hits the fan", you dont come back after the fact saying "well i always thought they handeled it wrong"
ps. Im not singling Mitch out here in that last rant. but just expressing some of my disapointment at old fellow mambers and also ppl who felt Tribe owes them something through historical ties.
"We worship Strength because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Moridin
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Posted - 2006.05.15 00:16:00 -
[7]
sadly the TS pvp is at some times very poor.
1 time i was in a frig/cruser gang into paragon and we killed around 15/20 bs + change and lost only 1 inty. it was not a big fight.it was a lot of ganks in the space of 4-5 hours.
not only was resitance never orginiced. but communication was monimental poor.
when TS get there act together they can pack a punch. but to stand up to ascn i dont think so
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Alita Tiphares
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Posted - 2006.05.15 00:44:00 -
[8]
original poster = ebay merchant
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BellaMaria
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Posted - 2006.05.15 00:56:00 -
[9]
So Zorael's original owner was an ebayer.
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Blacklight
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Posted - 2006.05.15 01:00:00 -
[10]
Are we going to get any more of Tribal Soul's dirty laundry washed in public or are you all done now?
Eve Blacklight Style
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End Yourself
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Posted - 2006.05.15 01:36:00 -
[11]
Edited by: End Yourself on 15/05/2006 01:37:19
as blacklight pointed out allready this is obviously a topic for alliance internal forums
might even get the answers(from alliance members/leadership) you have been lookin for there zorael 
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Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity. |
Esbjorn
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Posted - 2006.05.15 04:00:00 -
[12]
this is all karma for ejecting the bulk of anzac alliance from the alliance.
suck ****e i say.
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Avernus
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Posted - 2006.05.15 05:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Blacklight
Are we going to get any more of Tribal Soul's dirty laundry washed in public or are you all done now?
It is dirty laundry, and while admittedly it's not the best of reading to be had, I imagine it's garnering a lot of views by various groups. The demise of TS appears to have been a bit of a cluster..., well we all know it didn't end well. Once a corp has a taste for 0.0 though, we can expect to see them either going independant down here, or looking to join other alliances.
Always a good idea for some of us to gather as much information as we can, we may be facing some of them later in battle, others may want to be allies, and knowing what other alliances, and those who have had dealings, think of individual corporations from TS is valuable.
Information is half the battle. (Just a shame so much of it makes for crap reading)
Ex-JCoS, Ex-Diplomat, Ex-Councilor, Ex-CEO
(posts no longer represent Firmus Ixion) |
Kolhell
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Posted - 2006.05.15 06:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Zorael
Great job logistically and infiltrating the top management of TS.
hwa?
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bury the hatchet |
BoinKlasik
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Posted - 2006.05.15 07:13:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kolhell
Originally by: Zorael
Great job logistically and infiltrating the top management of TS.
hwa?
silly Kolhell, just as we are Bob alts, TS is our alts, we just throw off the tracks by attacking them, like BoB attacks ISS.
*doh, I broke my edited sig :/* *cries*
this signature was lacking pink, I'll provide it for you. There. Looks better doesn't it? -Eris
Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr!  ~kieron
Didn't I tell you? The damsel moved in with me, we're having a great time. - Wrangler
The damsel may not be distressed any more, but how many times does the informant have to be silenced before he gets the message? - Cortes
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ArcticFox
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Posted - 2006.05.15 08:12:00 -
[16]
Edited by: ArcticFox on 15/05/2006 08:13:21
I think the OP may be confusing spies with just lots of gangs moving around and a good use of scouts and communication channels.
I've heard the 'spies' excuse quite a lot and the truth is you generally don't need to go to all the trouble of infiltrating top management to get the position of an enemy fleet, their shiptypes, and what they're up to. You can obtain it much more easily with the following things, all of which ASCN and AXE had:
1) Covert ops ships.
2) The ability to look at local chat.
3) The scanner (not probes, just the regular one).
4) Lots and lots of people running around a relatively small region and making reports through shared comm channels.
Overall though, good post. In light of what you're saying what I've seen from the AXE side makes quite a bit of sense. There was considerably less resistance than any of us expected I think, since a bunch of small, spread out resistance is of very little trouble to a larger coordinated force.
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"There's no +6 Sword of WTFPWN in Eve." - Er... Some person on the forum... |
VeniVidi Vici
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Posted - 2006.05.15 10:30:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Moridin
sadly the TS pvp is at some times very poor.
1 time i was in a frig/cruser gang into paragon and we killed around 15/20 bs + change and lost only 1 inty. it was not a big fight.it was a lot of ganks in the space of 4-5 hours.
not only was resitance never orginiced. but communication was monimental poor.
when TS get there act together they can pack a punch. but to stand up to ascn i dont think so
to be fair i think their efforts were above par of late. response and effort in the weeks leading to AA getting the boot was great. it was a pleasure to fight along side most of TS.
Originally by: Esbjorn
this is all karma for ejecting the bulk of anzac alliance from the alliance.
suck ****e i say.
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Ventran Halleck
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Posted - 2006.05.15 14:33:00 -
[18]
I think the spies in upper management comes from the fact that TS had minimal POS's deployed in the 'guise' of fuel problems. I know for a fact that fuel was not a concern. There was an ice mining op the popped a ice roid (30k units)for christs sake. Those ops ran for long periods of time. When asked about the strenght of a systems defenses we recieved "its a fortress" as an answer. Sorry guys, but ONE or TWO pos is not a fortress....
Then there was the sorry state of organization. No coordination to gangs, just people in systems ganging to gether to attack at random. Targets called in gang where the target warps out right after that (more than once this happened). Then there is my personal favorite, watching allied industrials making trip after trip before the 24 hours were up when they were instructed to join the patrol op.
Bah, Ive got more, but why bother?
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Freeman Lowell
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Posted - 2006.05.15 14:50:00 -
[19]
Ventran Halleck come on the join the Dark!! Pvp all the way.
The Lost son of Stuu - I will avenge the selling of my father to a slave worker!
Long Live Dark Rising the outcasts of Paragon Souls |
Riddlock
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Posted - 2006.05.15 14:53:00 -
[20]
except posting in every single thread who have the word tribal in it , do you ex stc noobs do anything else ?
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Rutoo
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Posted - 2006.05.15 15:08:00 -
[21]
Hey Riddlock, the answer is yes we are noobs :)
_________________________________________________________
Club Seals Not Sandwichs |
Freeman Lowell
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Posted - 2006.05.15 16:13:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Freeman Lowell on 15/05/2006 16:13:51
Answer is yes I'm a noobie! Why beause I sold my old char's then came back so started again!
I like to be a forum ***** as well :P And Rid if you and your lot want to come then fine :)
The Lost son of Stuu - I will avenge the selling of my father to a slave worker!
Long Live Dark Rising the outcasts of Paragon Souls |
Mr Fatalis
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Posted - 2006.05.15 18:39:00 -
[23]
Zorael, Paragon Soul always WAS a hotspot and it has returned to that. Occupied during the wars with Curse alliance, the big invasion from SMASH, VC&RUBRA etc and then a bit of one from IRON/PA that led to the creation of TS.
It's seen some spectacular battles and I've had some part in them.
Who's kept the peace whilst you were there? BOB did a good job keeping some of the northern alliances occupied, as did ASCN on the other flank and Stain Alliance to the north.
Fuel crisis Ventran? It is of no surprise that the ordinary team playing joes of STC have been working their butts off mining ice for the POSes. There are lots of POS's, just not all in Paragon Soul.
Dirty washing in public? I think only the odd sock has been dangled thus far.
Greed was never the reason I went to Paragon Soul. As the others of DR, I liked living in Stain. We only went South because that was where the corp went at that time.
I'm bored of this now . . .
Mr F
Former STC Director
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2006.05.15 22:52:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Neon Genesis on 15/05/2006 22:54:34
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread |
fisty
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Posted - 2006.05.16 01:21:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Nafri
Quote:
I am a carebear I get to play from work and enjoy making isk
that makes me really sad, if you consider that I started PvP together with that character 2.5 years ago
LIES ALL LIES....i knew nafri was a born carebear
Ciao |
Rooman
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Posted - 2006.05.16 05:20:00 -
[26]
Its sad to see what happened but life moves on.
This was my first 0.0 home for a short 3 months, before our corp was booted a week or so before ASCN decided to move in.
If ASCN did not move in, then in a short time Tribe were going to implode anyway IMHO. Since I was down there the internal brawlings continued to surface and festure. No one could denie that MOST of the corps there, were industrial and you did not need to be a rocket scientist when watching hostiles come into our space most times they would pick up some kills and move on to come back and attack another day.
Defence (PvP) was NOT our strong point. It always amazed me being a Nub down there if I could see we needed more bite (PvP) corps then why were we recruiting more Industrial type corps and not dedicated PvP types to strengthen PS. The last corp to come down at the time we were leaving was another Producer Corp T2 and Capital.
Communication I think was one of the bigger issues down there. Not just in PvP action. People were always cr@cking the wobblies in Alliance Chat and rightfully so from my view point.
In RL bosses listen and act upon the continual rumblings of there staff and work to resolve the problem, but the Tribe Leadership lived in Ivory Towers and treated us like mushrooms and made no attempt to fix/resolve issues with the corps. So the continual sniping etc in Alliance Chat just continued.
Then we (AA) had the luaghable situation of directors leaving and then coming back.........to be promoted no less to Tribe Elders or Exec Corp members or welcomed back with open arms of director roles again, dont know how that worked but hey if ya can get it go for it
It was fun being down there and it was great to meet many new friends.
In the end the four day take over really did show the (Tribe bosses) that PS were not as big and tough as they may have thought as they could not hold/defend there space and a total lack of commuication and logistical orgainisation was there ultimate downfall, not that they could ever have defended/defeated ASCN.
To the many friends I got to fly with, take care guys, fly safe 
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ArcticFox
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:17:00 -
[27]
Edited by: ArcticFox on 16/05/2006 09:18:27
Originally by: Ventran Halleck
I think the spies in upper management comes from the fact that TS had minimal POS's deployed in the 'guise' of fuel problems. I know for a fact that fuel was not a concern. There was an ice mining op the popped a ice roid (30k units)for christs sake. Those ops ran for long periods of time. When asked about the strenght of a systems defenses we recieved "its a fortress" as an answer. Sorry guys, but ONE or TWO pos is not a fortress....
Then there was the sorry state of organization. No coordination to gangs, just people in systems ganging to gether to attack at random. Targets called in gang where the target warps out right after that (more than once this happened). Then there is my personal favorite, watching allied industrials making trip after trip before the 24 hours were up when they were instructed to join the patrol op.
Bah, Ive got more, but why bother?
The fuel problems sounds a little bit odd, though not really enough to draw any real conclusions from.
Blaming the poor coordination on having 'spies' in the 'upper management' is just sad and I don't even know how spies are supposed to tie in to people rushing their stuff out of the area in haulers during the grace period. I mean, did you think ASCN spies were like, convoing people under the guise of directors of TS and telling them to get their stuff out and not organize gangs?
However, my primary reason for doubting the spy theory is that it just doesn't make sense to me from this side of the fence. The higher ranks of ASCN and AXE simply aren't that conniving. Not to mention the time and effort that would be required to heavily infiltrate the upper management of TS simply for the purposes of disrupting your defenses is huge in comparison to the little time it would have saved us in the end by making the number of POS we had to shoot lower (I don't include any of the other things you claim the spies incited because they are, quite simply, ludicrous).
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"There's no +6 Sword of WTFPWN in Eve." - Er... Some person on the forum... |
Ventran Halleck
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Posted - 2006.05.16 13:54:00 -
[28]
You dont have to infiltrate to be a spy, a spy could be someone (or someone's) thats been there all along and just got tired of the way things were and decided to weaken us from within.
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CEO Rockhound
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Posted - 2006.05.16 14:54:00 -
[29]
Why bother to weaken someone from within, that don't hang together in the first place?
If there where 2 or 10 POS's, whould not have matherd much with respect to the amount of resistance tribal put up.
Tribal might have shot down a lot of battleships, but to hold a region you need lots of dreads and lots of battleships.
cruisers and frigs in roaming gank-gangs gives you kills, but in the end, it comes down to POS's, Dreads and T2 fitted Battleships / Carriers.
If someone sabotaged TS from within, find someone in your high command that was preaching "No need for battleships or capital ships, get yourselfs frigs and covetors".
Norsk Gruvedrift.
We will rock you. |
Extreme
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Posted - 2006.05.18 11:56:00 -
[30]
wow, this is a non-BoB thread 
hehe
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