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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Nathan32Derby UK
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Posted - 2006.05.14 20:06:00 -
[1]
Having taken 2x 6-12 month breaks because of various changes that i severely dissagreed with, I now find myself in exactly the same position. This time a clear cut exploit.
Here's what happened:
After getting ganked in a 0.3 system right on top of the gate, I started to round up all my spare stuff to put towards the manufacture of a new raven. My route was 6-7 jumps through secure space (to use the term loosely).
Imagine my disgust when i get attacked in a 0.8 system right on top of the gate in a pimped for space iteron 5, 5 named expanders, 22500m3 of loot including all bp's that were accumulated from the start of the game.
Do u honestly think i would be stupid enough to risk that kind of cargo? no, i took a high sec route to ensure safe delivery. What a joke. It appears that I am now probably safer in 0.0 without a clone, having just declared war on every known pirate in eve, whilst sat outside a very large POS in my underpants, armed with a plastic sword, having just slagged off everyone up that way. compared to a 0.8 system.
CCP refuse to admit that this is an exploit. strange !! one of the cheating B@$%+&@s killed his character off less than five minutes after the incident. If thats not an admission of guilt from one of the players, then i dunno what is.
If this is not an exploit, how is it possible to tank against concord that well that they won't scratch his paintwork before I lose all my cargo. He gets off scott free, and i'm wodering what happened.
Clearly this security status for each system is now as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike. It doesn't work.
Sure, everyone chooses which employement route they wish within this game, and one consequence is pirates. I don't have a problem with that. As none pirates, i stick with and play within the rules of the game. Now an exploit has been found and no doubt, I am not the only one to suffer like this. CCP's stance? Its not an exploit...... It beggars belief. The concord police are far too weak and far too slow. meanwhile we are just expected to keep throwing our hard earned cash at ccp to keep them employed, whilst hoping that most players play within the ever changing moving goalposts that ccp say are the rules. Hell the rules of engagement are not even clear enough anymore.
This needs addressing soon ccp. You are ruining our game.
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CptEagle
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Posted - 2006.05.14 20:25:00 -
[2]
Edited by: CptEagle on 14/05/2006 20:26:11
You're not making much sense... 
One thing though, you can't trash a chracter 5 minutes after using it afaik, since you have to wait like 14 hours before you can submit a character to biomass reprocessing, or something.
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Sfynx
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Posted - 2006.05.14 20:30:00 -
[3]
You are not invulnerable in a high security system. A suicide ganker got you because you were transporting your life savings in a tech 1 hauler made of paper. Ever considered using a transport ship (tech 2 hauler) which have much better resistances so concord has some time to finish the job? That's what they are there for, receiving some beating to keep your cargo safe.
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Monty Burns
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Posted - 2006.05.14 21:22:00 -
[4]
if its that valuable, then ditch the expanders and put in things like hardners and run two trips.
I feel for you as you sound like you have lost shed loads stuff but, venting your anger will not help in this case.
As the other guy mentioned: Tech 2 haulers, or as I have, protect yourself.
Sorry for your loss.
Oh ... and yes, you probably are safer in 0.0 coz you would fit for 0.0 travel, have bookmarks, have scouts and maybe even an armed escort.
p.s Don't goldwings have ashtrays for when parked? Just a guess as i ride rockets.
Darwin 4tw
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.05.14 21:49:00 -
[5]
Sry about you're loss.
I know it sucks, but thats how the game works.. you cant be 100% safe anywhere else than inside a station.
You're not going to get that changed in anyway..
I lost ALL of my bpo's and bpc's including 2 interceptor with fittings in cargo too, i was so ****ed..
Hope you'll get back on you're feet quick.
Spirits in the night! Allll Niiight!! |
Nukeitall
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Posted - 2006.05.14 22:00:00 -
[6]
It's not an exploit. You just fail at hauling.
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>>Disclaimer: Anything Nukeitall says is not to be taken seriously. Mostly. |
Prestis
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Posted - 2006.05.14 22:58:00 -
[7]
If it was an exploit you wouldn't be able to activate weapons in high-sec.
And high-sec is still the safest place in EVE -
In 0.0 you have no protection.
In low-sec you have sentry guns that can be tanked for 5+ minutes.
In high-sec you have Concord that will pop any ship in under 10 seconds.
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Outa Rileau
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Posted - 2006.05.14 23:31:00 -
[8]
You have to admit though that the suicide pilot also gave a risk... a risk of loosing his ship/fitting/loot/security status... And for hauling stuff worth so much in a 500K ship sounds kinda wrong tbh 
but ask yourself this: Would you rather be playing some "OMG IM INVULNERABLE!!!!11111eleventyone" game, or eve?
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Nathan32Derby UK
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Posted - 2006.05.15 00:31:00 -
[9]
the fact that the game changes so much with little or no warning until u find out the hard way is tough for the players. The security system in eve has a grading. It fails miserably as i was in a 0.8 system. Concord were next to the culprits and they responded far too slowly. These ships never got ganked in 10 seconds either. If i'd of realised a slight risk, i'd of never moved the kit unescorted, especially in one go. This game professes to having a nice balance for everyone............ Thats laughable as every patch/update/upgrade is geared towards assisting the pirate route to riches. With mining macro's ruining that part of the game, the unrealistic missile nerfs that ruined level 4's last year. All these singing all dancing ships that can't leave 0.0. Scam artist still attempting to con u on escrow. Theres very little left to do apart from pirating or trying to rip people off.
We all know theres a problem with concords strength and speed. Simple, sort it out.
p.s. thanks for the sympathy guys, i'm sure i'm not the first and i doubt i'll be the last to suffer. this will take me maybe a year to get back to where i was after tonite. And to be honest, it kinda knocks the stuffing out of you to know that ccp have the ability to sort it out yet they won't. They side with the pirates everytime and move the goalposts when it suits them.
These guys get "free" gametesters from the petition service, yet they still adopt the sloping shoulders stance to us.
Thanks a bunch CCP.
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Nvali
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Posted - 2006.05.15 06:23:00 -
[10]
Drat.
Another 'I quit' post, but we can't answer, "Can I have your stuff?", since it's gone already. Drat drat drat.
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BH Runner
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Posted - 2006.05.15 08:54:00 -
[11]
[qtoue]This time a clear cut exploit.
The appears to have been no exploit in that chain of events.
Concord did destroy the ship of the person who killed you.
They were willing to sacrifice a ship in order to ensure your cargo became a loot can.
They obviously scanned you, and saw something valuable.
A heavily expanded industrial ship is slow and has low agility, it is also a big target, which is locked fast and easily hit with heavy calibre weaponsystems.
They decided they had sufficient firepower to kill you prior to concord destroying them.
They would have also made the decision that their logistic pilots were closer than your backup, so they could loot from the dropped can before you could regain ownership.
The character couldn't have been deleted from the biomass queue for at least 12 hours.
Your defence against such an attack are various, within the current game mechanics.
1. Place valuable items in cans so they are not as easily detected upon scanning.
2. Fly using instajumps so your time at gates is limited.
3. Don't use a heavy easily shot, fast locked, low agility weak vessel to transport. (People don't move diamonds and gold in furniture removal vans)
4. Don't overload your transport ship with modules to make it weaker and slower, use energy fields for protection and make more trips.
5. Hire a team to escort you.
6. Trail with an alt of your own so you can loot your own can should this situation arise.
7. Use the courier service and have someone else do the valuable hauling for you.
There are other ways to avoid this. However, your suggestion that this is a change in game mechanics is unwarrented. There has always been the presence of suicide vessels, people willing to trade their ships for a shot at killing someone before concord kills them. Think of it as assassination, it exists, the police respond, bu often not in time.
[Bug Report Here] - [Contact Us] |
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Helison
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Posted - 2006.05.15 09:16:00 -
[12]
Runner, I have to agree with you, that this is no real exploit. BUT: It is one of the biggest game-flaws at the moment. And it is a major reason for players to quit the game.
I think this is reason enough to change something.
For myself it would be ok, if all eve would be made 0.0, so everbody knows that space is dangerous. But I¦m sure CCP can find a better solution for this problem. 
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PC5
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Posted - 2006.05.15 09:52:00 -
[13]
Ive been shoot down in 1.0 system lost some stuff too. Reported that, wrote on forum and GM answer was something like that "Use scouts". There is very high death/loss penalty in EVE. Sorry for your loss.
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Leandro Salazar
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Posted - 2006.05.15 10:08:00 -
[14]
I think the biggest problem with the suicide ganking (aside from the sociopathic aspects of (ab)using what I would call a loophole rather than an exploit) is that there is NO WARNING whatsoever about it anywhere in the game. So unless you are a forum *****, usually the only warning you get that this can happen is first hand experience. From all I can tell, the game at every point makes you believe high sec is indeed safe even in a T1 hauler.
Add to that the totally ridiculous facts that the perpetrator even gets insurance payout for sacrificing his ship in a criminal act, and that his buddy/alt gets to pick up the victims loot right under the nose of the police, and you get a lot of victims of this quitting simply because it goes 100% against any kind of common sense.
Imho the tutorial definitely needs a chapter about suicide gankers now that there are almost more of them than there are real pirates, and that chapter should pop up for every player once when it is introduced. If and when suicide ganks still happen then, it will be truly and only the victims fault, either for disregarding the warning or for not RTFT ;)
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Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? |
Helison
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Posted - 2006.05.15 10:13:00 -
[15]
Yeah, insurement payment for losses to concord should be canceled as soon as possible. This will help already a bit towards this problem.
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Fire Hawk
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Posted - 2006.05.15 10:22:00 -
[16]
 Originally by: Leandro Salazar
I think the biggest problem with the suicide ganking (aside from the sociopathic aspects of (ab)using what I would call a loophole rather than an exploit) is that there is NO WARNING whatsoever about it anywhere in the game. So unless you are a forum *****, usually the only warning you get that this can happen is first hand experience. From all I can tell, the game at every point makes you believe high sec is indeed safe even in a T1 hauler.
Add to that the totally ridiculous facts that the perpetrator even gets insurance payout for sacrificing his ship in a criminal act, and that his buddy/alt gets to pick up the victims loot right under the nose of the police, and you get a lot of victims of this quitting simply because it goes 100% against any kind of common sense.
Imho the tutorial definitely needs a chapter about suicide gankers now that there are almost more of them than there are real pirates, and that chapter should pop up for every player once when it is introduced. If and when suicide ganks still happen then, it will be truly and only the victims fault, either for disregarding the warning or for not RTFT ;)
The security status loss for a ship kill in a high secure space is high. Starting from -2.5 (excluded), you are KOS to concord/customs in 1.0, so people cant do it indefinitly. Add that you need patience, organisation (scan, scout etc), and risk of loosing your suicide ship and get an agress penality for nothing - so there is a work to get your cargo.
IMHO, this doesnt concern new players. It concerns players that have valuable stuff to move, if u aware how to earn money/stuff, you must be aware how to move it safetly. Use cans, use courrier missions, use insta's, use Freighter services corporations, use your brain, ... to avoid incidents.
Then you have a kill right, havent ya ? Use it to disturb his suicide ganks, take a ship (even a frig) and try to jam him on sight. You may die again, but u'll not loose as he will, as security status isnt buyable or insured 
Dont point it as "exploit", as clearly CCP never lied : "High Secure Space", afaik, "high" doesnt mean "invulnerable" and no bug is exploited for this. And Game mecanisms limit this activity with security status system. Well done CCP, all this sounds balanced to me, please dont ask for the nerfbat 
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omgfrenchpwntbh you are in teh pod. |
Fire Hawk
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Posted - 2006.05.15 10:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Helison
Yeah, insurement payment for losses to concord should be canceled as soon as possible. This will help already a bit towards this problem.
I like how ppl want devs/ccp solve their gameplay problems... Dont you want them to double LP's, give u 10 Tech2 Bpo's and make you invulnerable in 0.0 ?
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omgfrenchpwntbh you are in teh pod. |
Deakin Frost
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Posted - 2006.05.15 10:46:00 -
[18]
That's why you put a tank on your T1 hauler. My Iteron 5 has 1100 shield with 70% resists, and the rest nanos. Not the world, but at least a minimum of speed and protection.
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.05.15 11:18:00 -
[19]
hgih value items use secure cans with passwords ( u can go pick em up afterwards or lock em so they cant get atm ) t2 haulers oh and like BH runner said use a battleship with resistances to move expensive stuff. And they lost their ship so thats the balance.
SOrry about youre loss but if u must move everything do it in a few trips (darwin selection at work) u learn a lesson next time i hope youre not so unaware and take the samrt way
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.05.15 11:25:00 -
[20]
Secure cans have no influence on the outcome.
The items inside are scanned like all other items aboard.
If the ship goes boom, pick the locked can and reprocess it to get the items inside of it. Everybody can pick the can up as long as he's got enough cargo space free.
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Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.05.15 11:29:00 -
[21]
use a battleship. With high resistance plating and a few armour reps.
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Mikal Drey
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Posted - 2006.05.15 12:42:00 -
[22]
hey hey
not that its ok to see people suffer but i half LOL at this.
Exploit, no.
Player workaround, yes.
Fair No, C'est la Vie yes.
ISD recomending you get an alt :/ Kerching CCP
A long while back activating any mod on a player ship would be considered an act of agression. Scanning seems to have become legit. This is probably where CCP have made a mistake. The suicide alts and empire gankers are becoming a problem.
remember you have kill rights
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MrCue
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Posted - 2006.05.15 14:12:00 -
[23]
Scanning should be a hostile act since the scout takes no risk atm.
Killmail Database |
Malar
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Posted - 2006.05.15 15:03:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Malar on 15/05/2006 15:03:37
Thats true, but they do no harm either. I do agree, that ship scanning should criminal flag the scanning player towards the target, just as if taking loot from a container does.
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*Comments in this post are mine and mine only and are not the views held by HUN Corp* |
Minsc
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Posted - 2006.05.15 15:13:00 -
[25]
Never ever ever ever ever ever ever transport BPO's in anything as fragile as a Tech 1 indy........EVER.
Always transfer something that valuable in a ship that can withstand enough punishment for concord to do its job. The high-sec pirates are not going to go after a target that would have any chance of surviving that first volley, a cheap cruiser would have been sufficient to transfer all of those bpo's without being bothered by them in the least.
A painful way to learn that lesson but hopefully you do actually learn from it.
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.05.15 21:10:00 -
[26]
lesson learned keep scanning not as a flag thats just a measure to appeal to the carebears the current system is fine and the peep also gets killrights. Join a player corp and the whole corp can go help u kill em back.
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Nvali
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Posted - 2006.05.15 21:52:00 -
[27]
I feel it is important to point out that Miss Overlord's advice is incorrect.
Although the interface lets you lock a can in your hold, it is not actually locked unless the can is first anchored. As such, moving things in your hold inside a secure can doesn't actually add any security, even though it looks like it does.
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Hillesumos
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Posted - 2006.05.15 23:06:00 -
[28]
There are three easy afk ways to deal with that in empire:
- use a freighter: they are slow as hell but they are roomy and they definitively will survive a beating (5k shield, 20K armor and 120K structure) + they don't drop loot so there is no point destroying them period.
- As stated b4, use a transport they can certainly tank a BS or two for 5 minutes or so allowing concord to rescue you.
- Create a courrier mission and do it yourself. People will be unable to guess what is inside the courrier package since in my best knowledge they can't be scanned.
So there with some indsight and planning you can definitevely use games mechanism to protect your precious cargo but doing it in the open in an industrial ship is asking for trouble. BTW a nice way to make the life of ganker miserable is to use tech 2 bpc they look like like tech 2 bpo and well it is certainly not worth the life of a BS....
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Sadly I just make ISK, I don't print it. :(
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DualityX
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Posted - 2006.05.16 00:30:00 -
[29]
OMG it's a good dam game and yes there are suecide ganker's who are out to make easy isk use a apoc with all large smatbomb's and have a friend with a cargo scanner wita ya and go hunting lol. if you are so stupied to take it all in one haul well you must be either stupied or think your invincible in safe space. tell you this even it say's that your in safe space your not. youll never be. haope you learned ya lesson and stop bugging ccp with this stupid stuff.
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TomParad0x
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Posted - 2006.05.16 01:14:00 -
[30]
This is not an exploit, and i dont see how you can even link it with one. I have been told, along with a lot of other people that NO SPACE is safe, it is just safer than others. As said above, concord did attack, and did destroy them as they were suposed to.
Your lack of common sense in taking all of your stuff in a T1 hauler...its just amazing. TBH, im not suprized you got attacked you set your self up for it.
However, to show i am not a complete ass, i am sorry you lost your stuff... But next time use somthing more expensive than a T1 indy ship... As said above:
Originally by: BH Runner
[qtoue](People don't move diamonds and gold in furniture removal vans)
I think this is a good analogy to use for it... because its true.
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