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Stein Backstabber
The Forgotten Wanderers
21
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Posted - 2014.04.20 18:22:00 -
[31] - Quote
I'd take a drake into L3's if you're lower on skill points before a caracal. Skills all overlap (minus BC skill, but whatever) and it's simply far harder to lose that thing. |
Joker Dronemaster
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Nulli Secunda
33
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Posted - 2014.04.22 03:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
Drew Lorentz wrote:...........Also, I used to be very interested in using damage reduction modules, but I always find that they aren't predictable, and often lack in strength........
For level 2s this mentality works, but you'll find it won't hold against level 4s. The reason damage reduction mods aren't working for you is that different NPCs do different damage types. So no that EM hardener does not help on a Guristas/Serpentis mission, but it will help against Blood Raiders/Sansha Do a Google search and a little homework.
As for lacking strength..............
Bring up excel and graph this.
1/(1-"Ship Resist")
That formula will give you the resistance multiplier, which is effectively how much DPS 1 point of regeneration will negate at that resistance.
So for example a 50% resist would be 1/(1-.5) = 2, 60% would be 2.5, 70 is 3.33, 80% is 5.
Compare that to the 36% or 1.36 multiplier added by a T2 boost amp. |
Luwc
Biohazard. WINMATAR.
114
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Posted - 2014.04.22 07:15:00 -
[33] - Quote
Tajic Kaundur wrote:Caracals, and really any missile ship, get lower than average DPS on paper. .
Torpraven disapproves. HAM Drake disapproves. Cerberus disapproves. Tengu disapproves. Rocket Hawk disapproves.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
15196
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Posted - 2014.04.22 10:56:00 -
[34] - Quote
Joker Dronemaster wrote:Drew Lorentz wrote:...........Also, I used to be very interested in using damage reduction modules, but I always find that they aren't predictable, and often lack in strength........ For level 2s this mentality works, but you'll find it won't hold against level 4s. The reason damage reduction mods aren't working for you is that different NPCs do different damage types. So no that EM hardener does not help on a Guristas/Serpentis mission, but it will help against Blood Raiders/Sansha Do a Google search and a little homework. As for lacking strength.............. Bring up excel and graph this. 1/(1-"Ship Resist") That formula will give you the resistance multiplier, which is effectively how much DPS 1 point of regeneration will negate at that resistance. So for example a 50% resist would be 1/(1-.5) = 2, 60% would be 2.5, 70 is 3.33, 80% is 5. Compare that to the 36% or 1.36 multiplier added by a T2 boost amp.
Furthermore, a resist mod will increase your EHP buffer, which an amp won't. Here is my CSM9 endorsement list - vote for diversity of expertise : Ali Aras-á Mangala Solaris-á Mike Azariah-á Steve Ronuken James Arget-á Xander Phoena-á Sugar Kyle-á corbexx-á mynnna-á progodlegend-á Psychotic Monk-á Jayne Fillion
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Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
434
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Posted - 2014.04.22 11:53:00 -
[35] - Quote
Patri Andari wrote:Tajic Kaundur wrote:Caracals, and really any missile ship, get lower than average DPS on paper.
But keep in mind missiles don't miss. Yes, you can outrange missiles, or just flat out kite missiles if you're fast enough- but you can't miss with them the way a turret can.
So while you might see less DPS than desired on the fitting page, you're actually probably getting about the same DPS as a turret ship. LOL
He's right. There was a reason a 300dps HML Drake got a Damage nerf. Hit quality makes a large difference in how much damage you do
"Ermagherd, 600DPS in mah gunboat"
Yea... with 3K optimal. That 600 is worthless at NORMAL combat ranges, look at your gun DPS and half it - that's the best rule of thumb to live by - it's why TE's got nerfed, they where better at increasing effective damage at combat ranges that Damage Mods where, combined with a nice tracking bonus to mitigate more speed on a target.
It's also why Amarr laser boats are terrifying - they operate in optimal and not falloff. |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
434
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Posted - 2014.04.22 11:57:00 -
[36] - Quote
Luwc wrote:Tajic Kaundur wrote:Caracals, and really any missile ship, get lower than average DPS on paper. . Torpraven disapproves. HAM Drake disapproves. Cerberus disapproves. Tengu disapproves. Rocket Hawk disapproves.
Torps are insanely high damage but very difficult to apply the damage compared to cruise. The opposite is true for HAM's versus Heavies (Ham's apply damage better). |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
651
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Posted - 2014.04.22 12:00:00 -
[37] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:Patri Andari wrote:Tajic Kaundur wrote:Caracals, and really any missile ship, get lower than average DPS on paper.
But keep in mind missiles don't miss. Yes, you can outrange missiles, or just flat out kite missiles if you're fast enough- but you can't miss with them the way a turret can.
So while you might see less DPS than desired on the fitting page, you're actually probably getting about the same DPS as a turret ship. LOL He's right. There was a reason a 300dps HML Drake got a Damage nerf. Hit quality makes a large difference in how much damage you do "Ermagherd, 600DPS in mah gunboat" Yea... with 3K optimal. That 600 is worthless at NORMAL combat ranges, look at your gun DPS and half it - that's the best rule of thumb to live by - it's why TE's got nerfed, they where better at increasing effective damage at combat ranges that Damage Mods where, combined with a nice tracking bonus to mitigate more speed on a target. It's also why Amarr laser boats are terrifying - they operate in optimal and not falloff.
You know that the falloff line is actually a curve and at 50% falloff it's still doing 80% DPS, right? The guns do half DPS at FULL falloff.
TEs were nerfed because they gave too much falloff bonuses and projectiles were murdering things. |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
280
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Posted - 2014.04.22 22:19:00 -
[38] - Quote
With missiles and on mission consider this: Missiles are only weapon system which you can choose 1 type of select-able damage type. Rate take most from EM? check, May explosive? check. So in practice it balanced out. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Drew Lorentz
TBG Holdings
0
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Posted - 2014.04.23 02:38:00 -
[39] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:With missiles and on mission consider this: Missiles are only weapon system which you can choose 1 type of select-able damage type. Rate take most from EM? check, May explosive? check. So in practice it balanced out.
I use kinetic because: a) many caldari ships have bonuses to kinetic and b) they deal the most balanced damage (neither shields nor armor have too high of a resistance to kinetic)
Sorry I haven't responded to your comments for a while, they have been very helpful. I've been trying to earn back my loses after I lost my cruiser to a jackass gatecamper who for whatever reason wasn't being targeted by concord or the gate's turrets. I wasn't able to fight back because in an effort to conserve Isk, I hadn't bought any missiles because the local price had been to high. I was on my way to get the last piece of my fit, when I accidentally uncloaked after jumping into a system. He was in a T2 attack frigate and before I could warp out, he jammed me, webbed me, and eventually destroyed me |
Drew Lorentz
TBG Holdings
0
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Posted - 2014.04.23 02:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
But by using my alt, I just made enough money to buy a new one! (My alt is a mining character mostly run by my friend. It can pull about 800K in 20 min.) |
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Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1607
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Posted - 2014.04.23 08:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
Did you just admit to account sharing? I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Drew Lorentz
TBG Holdings
0
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Posted - 2014.04.24 00:25:00 -
[42] - Quote
Kinda? We used pay to use it when the other person couldn't. We didn't really think anything of it at the time, but he's lost interest and I've realized that you're not allowed to do that. After looking at my last message, I realized I used present tense, but honestly only I use it now |
Joker Dronemaster
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Nulli Secunda
36
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Posted - 2014.04.27 00:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Furthermore, a resist mod will increase your EHP buffer, which an amp won't.
Cant believe I forgot to include that. |
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